I’m putting this thread in Off Course rather than in breeding forum because I do not want a CB mare for breeding, but for riding.
Would prefer to buy in USA so I can see her up close and personal rather than importing from UK.
I’ve found a lot of 1/2 bred CB mares, but I want a purebred. Age unimportant. Can be in her teens, riding sound, and of course backed.
TIA
not saying its impossible but good luck. there are so few you could write a personal letter to every owner there is world wide
According the the CBHS there are currently less than 250 pure bred Cleveland Bay mares of breeding age throughout the world today
http://www.bayhavenfarm.com/Bay_Haven_Farm,_LLC/About_the_Cleveland_Bay_Breed.html
There is a poster here that stands a pure Cleveland stallion. She might be able to help you out if I could remember her name on here. I’ll PM you her farm name though.
Given that there are so few of them, you might be hard pressed to find a mare for sale that they’d be willing to let go to a home that won’t breed her?
This site had a two year old for sale:
http://www.bayhavenfarm.com/Bay_Haven_Farm,_LLC/Cleveland_Bay_Horses_for_Sale.html
I think the last one here is a purebred mare:
I had no idea they were so rare. I’ve got a purebred CB mare in my barn for training. I think the owner has several more as well.
We own Part-bred Clevelands.
You need to check with the CB breed association, the International FB page, to find and contact Breeders. We purchased a couple weaners from Epiphany Bay Farm in the last couple years and really like their stock. I don’t know if they have any Pure mares to sell at the moment, but we sure like the Partbreds we got from them! Handled daily, good minds, just super young horses. Our now 3yr old gelding is on their page header with his gray dam.
https://www.facebook.com/Epiphany-Bay-Farm-LLC-Cleveland-Bay-Horses-118861491487834/?fref=ts
The Cleveland Bay Horse Society of North America has a website with breeders, activities, some horses for sale. It is all volunteer, so things might not be updated quickly.
http://www.clevelandbay.org/CBHSNA/Home.html
Contact Penny who is the Society secretary in NH, she would have information that might not be on the site yet. She has bred CBs for years, has some good ones and knows of others.
My other advice is to look at as many Pure and Partbred CBs as you can, to educate your eyes on how they should look and the Breed Standards. They are just really hard to photograph, the size and dimensions just don’t come thru like in real life. Heads are seldom “cute” as seen on so many modern horses, but they are HANDSOME, proportionate to their bodies. Bone size is a big factor in looking at one, they have larger hooves, big joints, not the little underpinnings I see more these days. Folks are ALWAYS amazed at our horses hooves, think they are so big! Perfect size I say, for the 1500# horse above! He wouldn’t stay sound on little size 2 shoes. Our Partbreds are light on those big hooves, quite athletic, capable of many skills with good training.
We love our Partbreds, they are more suited to our use in Combined Driving, easier to cool in the short Vet time window. Pures are just bigger all over, though maybe not quite as tall. Girth depth is what makes that deep body harder to cool in heat and humidity we have here. Pures do compete well in various activities, just are not that many of them out in any competitions. They are a horse to enjoy for the skilled person wanting a capable horse.
They are a horse to enjoy for the skilled person wanting a capable horse.
Is it a difficult breed to work with? Why skilled? I actually have seen a two year old imported from Canada at a barn where I boarded, lovely horse, but that was 20 years ago and haven’t seen one since.
Thanks for the tips. I had already contacted the retiring breeder but apparently that is an old ad still up on a website.
And after the fiasco with aspenlucas the Cother, is she still in business and no I’d not go there.
I have no problem with donating the eggs of the mare for other breeders. I just don’t want to breed myself.
And since I’ve owned european warmbloods for years, I cannot imagine a more opinionated horse than a German, so I think I can handle a CB mare.
Keep the tips coming. And thanks everyone who has given me information on the CB. A friend recently visited the UK but was not a horse person so she couldn’t go try out a CB mare for sale there. I do not want to buy one sight unseen, and want to avoid cribbers, but I may have to import from the UK.
I am hoping some American breeder has an old CB mare ready to retire from breeding and sound for riding.
Thanks again.
[QUOTE=Kwill;8632818]
Is it a difficult breed to work with? Why skilled? [/QUOTE]
I don’t think they are difficult, but I have a lot of experience handling horses, so my “easy handling” is not always what another person would consider easy.
Being a Heritage breed, they have survived because they are thinkers, can make choices in situations, that should help them get out of trouble. Other Heritage breeds, Lippizan, Andulusian, also have a history of working with folks, being able to manage tough situations to get home with rider safely. The Lilppizans run rough ground, figure things out, so they stay unbroken galloping down the mountains, all before ever being ridden. They think, reason, come to conclusions based on their experiences in making choices.
A rider who expects such a horse to be “just a ride” outside the ring, is fooling themselves. Horse is your working partner, not a pet, not totally dominated, because horse will aid you in how you choose to do things. They are not usually silly if they have been used to learn new places, situations. You need to know you are training or untraining every ride. All of the Heritage types are dominant type horses, always asking if rider “is sure about this choice?” in direction, speed, what is being asked. A number of riders don’t like being questioned, not happy with the Heritage type horses. They want doormats, unquestioning obedience instantly from their horses. Packers. Rider needs to be firm, not mean, just in control of the partnership. It is NOT an equal partnership, which horse doesn’t mind, but they do want SOMEONE in charge. If rider is not, horse will be to keep himself safe.
The Cleveland Owners and users we know, like having the “ability” of the horse right to hand, power is there if you ask for it. Otherwise the big engine, power, is just idling, waiting to be asked to use it. Ours are light in the hand, but you need to train them that way. They will certainly hang on you if you let them! You won’t win trying to force lightness or obedience to the bit, has to be taught. Those heads are way too heavy for me to hold up! We laugh about having the Ferrari engine under the hide, appearing to be a “plain Bay horse” just standing there. We enjoy their abilities, fine tuning, just waiting to be used when you push the gas pedal, like a fine car is when driven. Skilled riders like that feeling, while the forward power scares the HECK out of less skilled riders!
Ours are usually homebred or now these 2 young horses we purchased, who are handled consistently like we would have while foals. Horses here are expected to be obedient EVERY time they get asked to do something by a person. I don’t do “cheeky” as the UK folks say, they are mannered, civil, when used. We don’t do options, horse is not given choices like with the NH folks. This is what I want, horse needs to do it, so we train until he does. Seldom is hard to teach, you just have to be consistant EVERY time asking or saying “No, don’t do that”. He really has to be obedient in the CDE Driving, there is only one “Captain of the ship” and horse crew gets no say in decisions. He trusts us not to ever hurt him, gives his best, though mares give 110% when asked. This partnership takes time to build so we start handling ours daily at very young ages. They believe in us protecting them, are darned good facing the odd and strange we meet out Driving. Everything we do at our place, is related to Driving uses in the young horses. Lots and lots of handling DAILY, so they continue to think people are ALWAYS in charge when handled.
Folks do less and less with many horses these days. It really makes a difference in your finished animals. They are so willing, try so hard for you, after coming from a foal to a using horse age in your hands. Ours are forgiving, their second best feature. When Driver screws up, stops the outfit, horses will turn around and look back! You get “the Look”. You can see them thinking “Dummy, THAT was a mistake! We forgive you, now GET IT RIGHT this time!” So we do it over and they try again for us, not over reacting, brains still in place. Of course you can’t KEEP messing up, you have to improve yourself, learn from your mistakes to not repeat them because horses will try to prevent problems then. Not good.
We have very high standards our CB Partbreds have to meet. It is not easy being a Driving horse with riding skills too. I believe the Driving horses have to be the most trained, accepting, of various disciplines because they have to be so trusting, forward, accepting of strange things. Not all are capable or suitable, of making good Driving horses, and this is any breed. When they make it here Driving, they are here for life. We do use our CBs for riding too, in various activities. The kids used them in Pony Club and 4-H, but our kids were skilled riders, horsemen able to manage their horses by being in charge of the partnership, even as small children. No auto pilot horses. They had a lot of horse fun with the Boys.
If you think you would be getting some kind of a draft cross with that kind of mind, think again. These buggers are smart! I have half of one–but the British cross of TB stallion and Clevie mare. He is now 32 and still makes his own decisions about things like “I am not going in that pasture today, I want to go in THIS one!”
Okay, Harry, okay!
My first big horse, 30ish years ago in England, was a CB/TB cross. Really nice horse, far too much for me at the time. Smart as a whip, mind of his own, huge mover, big jumper and fast. I’d love to have him now I know what the heck I’m doing!
I know back then, purebreds were even rarer than they are now–the breed was being killed by its own success as a cross with the TB, which was where the money was, and few were being bred pure. there was quite a campaign about it, I remember.
Please let us know if you find your unicorn!
[QUOTE=LookmaNohands;8632982]
If you think you would be getting some kind of a draft cross with that kind of mind, think again. These buggers are smart! I have half of one–but the British cross of TB stallion and Clevie mare. He is now 32 and still makes his own decisions about things like “I am not going in that pasture today, I want to go in THIS one!”
Okay, Harry, okay![/QUOTE]
Would this be the famous Harry Who?
I got to see you and Harry together in action a couple times, way back. I greatly admired you both while riding, obviously spent a lot of time together to be so smooth… Beautiful to watch your bridle-less routine and skills over fences. Just a pleasure to watch! I was so envious of your beautiful seat on him, it gave me a goal for me to work towards.
So nice to hear Harry is still quite full of himself at his age. He has good reason to think well of himself!!
You are correct, CB is nothing like a draft breed, in movement or mind in a Cleveland Bay. The USA Gov’t. listed CBs as Drafts when they were called draught (pronounced draft) horses, because of their common Driving uses. Pulling loads is draught work in the UK. NOT because CBs were heavy plow horses in the UK. Mix up of same sounding words. Bone type is completely different.
No offense meant to draught owners, as I have a close friend IRL who had 3 full draughts for years, but I am not looking for a draught or draught cross.
I grew up with horses and have owned warmbloods for several decades and thoroughbreds throughout my life. There is nothing more opinionated or smarter than a TB mare. And the warmbloods have both arabian and thoroughbred blood so they are not the calm and quiet horses that those who deem warmbloods as part draught and part Tb are used to.
I apparently missed out on the dispersal of the CB mares by the woman who was retiring from breeding, so I was hoping that someone in the good old USA had a CB mare, either barren or not, for sale for riding purposes. I would prefer not to import from the UK without having someone I trust check out the mare over there.
Thanks for all the help. I’ve been interested in Cleveland Bays for about 8 years, but just finally decided to buy one. Probably as rare as the unicorn, atr! I’ll report back if I find a purebred CB mare.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned Maryalice Matheson…great woman and beautiful Cleveland Bay breeder: http://www.bowlerhillfarm.com/
[QUOTE=goodhors;8633429]
Would this be the famous Harry Who?
I got to see you and Harry together in action a couple times, way back. I greatly admired you both while riding, obviously spent a lot of time together to be so smooth… Beautiful to watch your bridle-less routine and skills over fences. Just a pleasure to watch! I was so envious of your beautiful seat on him, it gave me a goal for me to work towards.
So nice to hear Harry is still quite full of himself at his age. He has good reason to think well of himself!!
You are correct, CB is nothing like a draft breed, in movement or mind in a Cleveland Bay. The USA Gov’t. listed CBs as Drafts when they were called draught (pronounced draft) horses, because of their common Driving uses. Pulling loads is draught work in the UK. NOT because CBs were heavy plow horses in the UK. Mix up of same sounding words. Bone type is completely different.[/QUOTE]
Yes. The one and only Harry Who? Thanks for the accolades! He is very special–and he knows it! I still ride him two or three days a week.
Here he is: http://theexcellenthorse.com/unbridled.html
[QUOTE=LookmaNohands;8633562]
Yes. The one and only Harry Who? Thanks for the accolades! He is very special–and he knows it! I still ride him two or three days a week.
Here he is: http://theexcellenthorse.com/unbridled.html[/QUOTE]
Wow! He is gorgeous! I love the statement “all done without round pen”. I really like the ttouch system.
Sorry for the hijack. 
Not hijacking, as it is great to see the partbreds looking like the full.
[QUOTE=PassagePony;8633497]
Not sure if anyone has mentioned Maryalice Matheson…great woman and beautiful Cleveland Bay breeder: http://www.bowlerhillfarm.com/[/QUOTE]
Great info, thank you! I see on the website where she did sell a purebred mare to someone. Thanks again.
No problem OP…give her a call, she is a wealth of information and I know her personally. Nice lady and can help you.
Interesting thread! :applause: These are such interesting horses, and so rare! Good luck, OP!
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