Purpose Bred Thoroughbred - ideas for MMB AHS TB mare (Florida)

[Amberkez]

I know, a subject that has been re-hatched over and over through the years. And I’ve kept reading the threads picking through all the ideas offered…but I wanted to open my own thread.

Whether it be financially the smartest decision I have always ADORED my Thoroughbreds and have always wished they’d make more of a niche than they have, in my head I’ve always wanted to purpose breed a Thoroughbred sport prospect one hopefully more aimed towards dressage than over fences. Big Want, I know.

But I have a great starting point now. Nobelette 2007 16.3hh Thoroughbred Mare (Harry The Hat / Pine Bluff) AHS Main Mare Book (Inspected & MPT). I’ll attach photos and scores. She needs a slightly more compact build and stronger hind leg, I’d prefer shorter fetlocks and ankles.

And maybe I won’t breed her to a Thoroughbred stallion next year. Maybe I stick with a financially responsible decision and go with an AHS stallion BUT I want ideas and perspectives for the future because I am going to do it. Why not let her have one Thoroughbred foal.

I’m located in Florida, I’d obviously like to stay in the area more because I like to see farms in person and be able to check up on my horses. Though if there’s a fantastic TB stallion who might work out of state…then I’m open to it. I have a small list below, let me know if you have any experience with them. I’ll be visiting the ones in Florida personally. I know there have to be diamonds in the rough hiding out too.

Anyhow!

(Florida)
Black Onyx (Rock Hard Ten)
Suntracer (Kittens Joy)
Fury Kapcori (Tiznow)
Thoreau (Gone West)
Amira’s Prince (Teofilo)
Learn (Galileo) A bit expensive
Bucchero (Kantharos) A bit expensive
Irish Surf (Gaint’s Causeway) A bit expensive and 2x Seattle Slew
Fort Loudon (Awesome of Course)
Tell Jose (Indian Charlie)

(Outside Florida)
Xenodon (Northern Baby) Is he still at stud???
Mystica Replica (Babamist) Definitely purpose bred sport
Costa Rising (Royal Strand)
Amanecer De Oro (Afternoon Deelites)
Proudinsky (Silvano) Interesting pedigree
Gone North (Dynaformer)
Drewman (Unbridled)
Western Pride (Way West) I LOVE everything about this stallion, except how far away he is
Magnus Star (Risen Star)
Lyracist (Sultry Song)
Magical Mon (Marias Mon)
Medallist (Touch Gold)
Serendip (Ghostzapper)
Secret House (Tiznow)
Icon Ike (Yes Its True)
G Ws Skippie (Skip Away)
Bench Maker (Alphabet Soup)
Awesome Hero (Awesome Again)
Moonshine Mulin (Albert The Great)
Mark Valeski (Proud Citizen)
Grey Swallow (Daylami) PT, expensive?
Aikenite (Yes Its True) PT, expensive?
Straight Line (Boundary) Too much Danzig?
Awesome Patriot (Awesome Again)

[va2txrider]

xenodon is no longer living. I would add in Musketier to your list (also stands at Calumet). I have a filly by him who is a lovely mover and very athletic, and he was very sound (50+ races). I have seen stallion auctions for some Calumet stallions for $500, so keep your eye out for those of contact Calumet and try to work a deal.

[Texarkana]

As a small racing breeder who bred to stallions outside of my state of residence, I had a surprisingly hard time finding board/mare care at out-of-state thoroughbred farms. It was easy to get a contract at any time, but I was shocked how early all their boarding opportunities filled up. I was breeding to stallions in KY, IN, and OH. That’s just something to keep in mind. If you end up deciding on a stallion at a big thoroughbred farm out of state, you will definitely need to make arrangements early unless you have some other plan to get her up there to be covered and back.

This may not necessarily be an issue at the non-racing facilities or for the stallions in states without much of an active TB program.

Also, if breeding for sport to an unproven-for-sport TB, I strongly encourage limiting yourself to stallions you see in person… unless you can stalk a lot of good video footage of them or know a lot of their offspring. Professional advertising photos can be deceiving for both better or worse.

[wannabedvm]

@va2txrider

xenodon is no longer living. I would add in Musketier to your list (also stands at Calumet). I have a filly by him who is a lovely mover and very athletic, and he was very sound (50+ races). I have seen stallion auctions for some Calumet stallions for $500, so keep your eye out for those of contact Calumet and try to work a deal.

Uf, I hate his legs! But that soundness record speaks for itself, I guess.

[beowulf]

@wannabedvm

Uf, I hate his legs! But that soundness record speaks for itself, I guess.

Musketier’s? What do you hate about them? I wish he was available for sport, he has the pedigree eventers want.

OP, nice mare and pedigree! I would pass on any stallion that has Seattle Slew. She already has him once in a pedigree. He is fine once, but he is not a horse I would linebreed to because of his neck issues.

Of all the stallions you’ve mentioned, Mystic Replica is my favorite for sport. He is eventer focused, but I have seen some nice movers from him. See if you can find videos of his offspring - I believe… maybe it is Boyd that has a couple? I’m sorry, it’s early in the morning for me – but one BNR has several. Maybe someone else can help me remember.

There is also Rather Well. I seem to remember he made some really nice movers out of average mares. Eventer as well.

Anything with Danzig will help you compact her back, IME. Danzig will bring you better movement too, but maybe not so much dressage movement. If you are wanting dressage movement, GC, Sadlers Wells(Galileo especially), Kittens Joy, all tend to make better movers. GC will not shorten her back; IME sons of GC tend to make horses that are quite long-lined.

One TB stallion that I admit I did a full 180 on impressions wise, is Artrageous. He is standing in FL at Fox Haven Farms, and may be worth a look to you. He does not have much of a competition record, but I’ve been consistently impressed with his get. I would have bought one of his fillies if the timing had been better, - I thought she was really special (she may still be on the website, she was called Artangel). He has good clean basic gaits - they’re not jaw-dropping, but the thing I like about him is he seems to consistently pass on a really good hind end, clean gaits, and a nice canter. And he’s ammy friendly.

[EventerAJ]

Amberkez, I get you! I, too, had a super TB event mare and didn’t want to lose any of that TB-ness that made her so special. Through some KY connections, and lots of research, I bred her to Sightseeing (Pulpit). Got a great colt, nicely put together, easy to ride, better on the flat than his mother. But, didn’t have the ambition for upper levels, and is happy with an AA rider. The gamble of breeding horses! But, physically, he is everything I was aiming for.

Fast forward a few years. I now have a lovely TB stallion, did the Makeover in 2016 and moved up to prelim eventing this year. I bred him to my own TB mares, have a super 2018 colt that won the FEH Central Championships this year as a yearling. Bred him to 3 mares this spring, due 2020. If all goes well beginning AI this winter, I will be offering him to the public in 2020 for $500 (live cover; AI + collection fees). I don’t expect to get many mares; standing a TB is an uphill battle! But I’m doing it because I love the breed, and I love this horse. He is incredibly kind, intelligent, and honest, a good mover with a good jump. He has an extremely classy pedigree, and other sons of Bernardini are producing the types of athlete I like. I’m thrilled with my 2018 colt, much like his sire, and I’d love a barnful of him.

If you are interested, send me a PM. Stud fee is negotiable to approved mares. I’m in Ocala, you are welcome to come meet him and my yearling.

https://m.facebook.com/SaketiniStallion/

[beowulf]

How could I forget Saketini?! Mea culpa. He would double the SS, but it’d be reasonably far back…

[Jealoushe]

Vibank is in Indiana. I have 2 mares from him (OTTBS), one dressage and one to start eventing this year. Both have the BEST brains, and are above average movers, super brave and very very smart. My young event mare I am soooo excited for and my dressage mare has been seen as potential for the GP. He also has a mare eventing 4* - Serendipity here in Canada.

I have spoken with his owner and she is happy to open him to sport horse breeders. He would be my #1 choice. He was leading sire in Canada for racing more than once I believe.

[wannabedvm]

@beowulf

Musketier’s? What do you hate about them? I wish he was available for sport, he has the pedigree eventers want.

Looks slightly buck-kneed; long, too-sloping, weak patterns; and slightly camped-under.

[beowulf]

@wannabedvm

Looks slightly buck-kneed; long, too-sloping, weak patterns; and slightly camped-under.

Ah, that’s fair. I am not sure if you know this, so apologies if I am preaching to the choir, but being buck-kneed and/or over at the knee are usually man-made, from racing hard - it’s remodeling of the knee due to the stress on their legs. I see it common with really bad hoof angles.

Have you seen other pictures of him? Might change your mind about him… or not. I think whoever his farrier is, is not a sport farrier - I dislike his hoof angles, but those are farrier made… :yes:

I don’t mind his conformation or pasterns so much. Eventers want a horse that stands over a lot of ground. He’s hardy, and shares the same sire as two of our best horses in the sport.

[wannabedvm]

@beowulf

Ah, that’s fair. I am not sure if you know this, so apologies if I am preaching to the choir, but being buck-kneed and/or over at the knee are usually man-made, from racing hard - it’s remodeling of the knee due to the stress on their legs. I see it common with really bad hoof angles.

Have you seen other pictures of him? Might change your mind about him… or not. I think whoever his farrier is, is not a sport farrier - I dislike his hoof angles, but those are farrier made… :yes:

I don’t mind his conformation or pasterns so much. Eventers want a horse that stands over a lot of ground. He’s hardy, and shares the same sire as two of our best horses in the sport.

That pic makes his hind end look a lot better. Still not crazy about the front legs. I didn’t know that racing made horse horses buck-kneed/over at the knee, though… Wish there was a pic of him younger to look at.

[va2txrider]

Is Mystic Replica still breeding? He is 1995, so would be 25. I would think that would be about the age most TB stallions retire. I would love to breed one of my mares to him!

[Amberkez]

@va2txrider

xenodon is no longer living. I would add in Musketier to your list (also stands at Calumet). I have a filly by him who is a lovely mover and very athletic, and he was very sound (50+ races). I have seen stallion auctions for some Calumet stallions for $500, so keep your eye out for those of contact Calumet and try to work a deal.

Thank you, good to know on the stallion auctions, I didn’t think of that! The photo posted of him does make me reconsider - much better than on his site. And his does have a super sporty pedigree.

[Amberkez]

@Texarkana

As a small racing breeder who bred to stallions outside of my state of residence, I had a surprisingly hard time finding board/mare care at out-of-state thoroughbred farms. It was easy to get a contract at any time, but I was shocked how early all their boarding opportunities filled up. I was breeding to stallions in KY, IN, and OH. That’s just something to keep in mind. If you end up deciding on a stallion at a big thoroughbred farm out of state, you will definitely need to make arrangements early unless you have some other plan to get her up there to be covered and back.

This may not necessarily be an issue at the non-racing facilities or for the stallions in states without much of an active TB program.

Also, if breeding for sport to an unproven-for-sport TB, I strongly encourage limiting yourself to stallions you see in person… unless you can stalk a lot of good video footage of them or know a lot of their offspring. Professional advertising photos can be deceiving for both better or worse.

Good thought, I didn’t take the potential of no mare care available. I somehow just tend to think of all the TB farms as big.

It’s more than likely I stay with a Florida stallion for that very reason. Though some of the others I’m hoping folks may have seen and can give views on. Luckily Florida has a decent variety.

[Amberkez]

@beowulf

Musketier’s? What do you hate about them? I wish he was available for sport, he has the pedigree eventers want.

OP, nice mare and pedigree! I would pass on any stallion that has Seattle Slew. She already has him once in a pedigree. He is fine once, but he is not a horse I would linebreed to because of his neck issues.

Of all the stallions you’ve mentioned, Mystic Replica is my favorite for sport. He is eventer focused, but I have seen some nice movers from him. See if you can find videos of his offspring - I believe… maybe it is Boyd that has a couple? I’m sorry, it’s early in the morning for me – but one BNR has several. Maybe someone else can help me remember.

There is also Rather Well. I seem to remember he made some really nice movers out of average mares. Eventer as well.

Anything with Danzig will help you compact her back, IME. Danzig will bring you better movement too, but maybe not so much dressage movement. If you are wanting dressage movement, GC, Sadlers Wells(Galileo especially), Kittens Joy, all tend to make better movers. GC will not shorten her back; IME sons of GC tend to make horses that are quite long-lined.

One TB stallion that I admit I did a full 180 on impressions wise, is Artrageous. He is standing in FL at Fox Haven Farms, and may be worth a look to you. He does not have much of a competition record, but I’ve been consistently impressed with his get. I would have bought one of his fillies if the timing had been better, - I thought she was really special (she may still be on the website, she was called Artangel). He has good clean basic gaits - they’re not jaw-dropping, but the thing I like about him is he seems to consistently pass on a really good hind end, clean gaits, and a nice canter. And he’s ammy friendly.

Thank you, thats the kind of bloodline info I’m looking for (ie the Seattle Slew comment). Already having Danzig in her 3rd generation do you feel like that might be too much Danzig blood, I notice I tend to like the Danzig horses but I was told inbreeding might cause back issues??? I like the look of Currency Swap, if I can find wherever he is now but that would be Pine Bluff 2x in the third generation.

GC = Gaints Causeway? Good to know. She is slightly long in the back, her two foals on the ground don’t seem to be but their sire was also very compact.

Mystica Replica appeals to me as he is sport bred, I’ve seen some notes that his children aren’t thrilled about flat work. I’ve messaged his owner previously but I’m not sure she is on social media very often. I like his old pedigree and given his age breeding sooner than later would probably be wise. IF his is still even breeding.

I’ve followed both Artrageous and Saketini as they are sport type stallions here in Florida. I need to see if they are available to gander at. I’ve always liked Artrageous but I think he might be a bit flat in the front end as a mover for what I’m hoping for - is that the impression you’ve had from his foals? I feel like he is more hunter.

Do you have any opinions on Bucchero? He looks rather fancy, though perhaps a bit too rectangular.

[Amberkez]

@EventerAJ

Amberkez, I get you! I, too, had a super TB event mare and didn’t want to lose any of that TB-ness that made her so special. Through some KY connections, and lots of research, I bred her to Sightseeing (Pulpit). Got a great colt, nicely put together, easy to ride, better on the flat than his mother. But, didn’t have the ambition for upper levels, and is happy with an AA rider. The gamble of breeding horses! But, physically, he is everything I was aiming for.

Fast forward a few years. I now have a lovely TB stallion, did the Makeover in 2016 and moved up to prelim eventing this year. I bred him to my own TB mares, have a super 2018 colt that won the FEH Central Championships this year as a yearling. Bred him to 3 mares this spring, due 2020. If all goes well beginning AI this winter, I will be offering him to the public in 2020 for $500 (live cover; AI + collection fees). I don’t expect to get many mares; standing a TB is an uphill battle! But I’m doing it because I love the breed, and I love this horse. He is incredibly kind, intelligent, and honest, a good mover with a good jump. He has an extremely classy pedigree, and other sons of Bernardini are producing the types of athlete I like. I’m thrilled with my 2018 colt, much like his sire, and I’d love a barnful of him.

If you are interested, send me a PM. Stud fee is negotiable to approved mares. I’m in Ocala, you are welcome to come meet him and my yearling.

https://m.facebook.com/SaketiniStallion/

Thank you! I actually follow him on FB!
It looks like you show regularly, do you get out to Rocking Horse any?

[Texarkana]

@Amberkez

Good thought, I didn’t take the potential of no mare care available. I somehow just tend to think of all the TB farms as big.

It’s more than likely I stay with a Florida stallion for that very reason. Though some of the others I’m hoping folks may have seen and can give views on. Luckily Florida has a decent variety.

They are big! The problem is many mare owners board their mares for the entirety of the season, especially since many are from out of state. They ship them there early and they stay for quite a while, filling up the farms. It was kind of mind blowing that a farm with hundreds of mares couldn’t find room for one more easily!

Probably not a problem at a less busy farm with only one or two stallions covering a handful of mares…

[jackandlily]

I’ve dealt with 2 Western Pride babies on the ground and they’ve had lovely minds. Both were pretty, correct, and good movers. I’m by no means a conformation expert so I can’t speak to the points you want to improve upon, but they were game, quiet things and very easy to get going as trail horses (both were sold to pleasure homes).

[allanglos]

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“10535608”,“data-size”:“large”}[/ATTACH] I have a TB stallion in FL. He is just now starting his under saddle training.

[ExpialidociousOTTB]

My horse is by Thoreau, out of Buzznalawng - I have a lovely moving, quiet minded, athletic, beautifully put together gelding. He’s quite compact at 15.3, and conformation-wise looks a lot like Thoreau. I’ve had him 2.5 years, he is now 5, but he has done a little bit of local hunters and we just started doing dressage. I hope I might be brave enough to event him someday, but he is capable of doing much more than I will ever need him to. Thoreau’s breeder/owner also seems like a responsible breeder that aims to produce high-quality TBs.