Pushing through slumps and setbacks in riding lessons

[mika0116]

To be fair - the crying comes from I want to trainer to PUSH PUSH PUSH me and make me work work work work. I cry when they’re quieter, I cry when they say “that was really nice or great job handling that” for the entire lesson.

because I am not paying for silent observation or to be complemented I am paying to be instructed and to learn. I rarely take group lessons because I am a really annoying student asking to make the exercise or task more work. I don’t like a “low” or “medium level trainers” for this reason. I ride currently with an FEI rider, and Grand Prix Show Jumper, and an Olympian’s home assistant trainer (even tho I am an average AA that does not want to jump more than 1m or 1.10m) because there is ALWAYS communication and they’re always looking to raise my awareness and my execution. and yes we DO have fun during all this.

I have some questions / suggestions that might help you.

Did you play sports as a kid or adult or maybe crossfit / olympic lifting, yoga, pilates, martial arts, swimming / diving. skiing, or hell even soccer beyond tiny tots just running around picking flowers instead of being ready freddy defense

or oil painting or tennis, dance or cheer or something?

Like have you been instructed on an activity before that requires mind/body connection and execution?

I am curious what your experiences are for learning that requires you to digest instruction and then mentally and physically manifest it.

For example - I find pottery or fine painting instructors as well as gym coaches / pilates and yoga teachers and folks at the Dojo are similar to my riding instructor and teach differently, but all require that mind - body - execution pathway. All of our relationships are communication and then execution based.

I know learning something is SO much harder as an adult (Sometimes in Pilates I just CANNOT make the reformer move in a way everyone else can - instructor breaks it down and I have tiny breakthroughs relatively often - I ask for help, I watch videos, I have goals of testing into level 2.5 (highest level) within 1.5 year of starting Pilates - and week by week the trend is generally upwards - sometimes I backslide and get stuck for a while but over a long enough time - the trend is generally up.

I would recommend starting another sport/ activity as an adult and see if your blockages translate to that activity as well. That would help you determine if its the instruction that isn’t landing with horses or if it is a you item - where you’re lacking maybe goals or maybe confidence or maybe neuroplasticity that can be exercised outside of horses but brought to your relationship with riding lessons.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@danhelm441

I’ve had some instructors who don’t talk much except to introduce/explain an exercise. Then they step back and just let the exercise do the teaching. That approach works better for me, definitely, and it gives me something tangible to set up and practice by myself. But if I get stuck and can’t figure it out, I find myself missing the analytical approach. I want someone to analyze what I’m doing wrong and break down the steps to fix it. So like I said, it’s a balance.

Are you riding with just one trainer? Asking because my jumper trainer’s style is to talk every.single.stride while his students ride. That does not work for me. I can’t listen and ride I finally said to him - I don’t know if it is my ADD, just my style or what. But can we adjust that you don’t talk to me while I’m jumping (jumping is where it distracts me the most) unless you think I am going to die

It worked. Made lessons much more enjoyable for me. (he tried it with my friend who also rides with him and she HATED it).

I know it isn’t his style. He tries to accomodate me, but it still slips in and now we can just laugh about it.

[danhelm441]

@mika0116

I am curious what your experiences are for learning that requires you to digest instruction and then mentally and physically manifest it.

I used to dance ballet until I tore my ACL at 16. Now I mostly just ride and lift weights, though I started Pilates this summer. As a dancer, I used to feel like a natural. I don’t ever remember struggling that much (not that I was ever in a highly competitive environment). I was flexible and had a the “right” body type, but I was also a slow learner and a bit of a “cheater” (would use the wrong muscles/form to make something easier—not surprisingly how I got hurt). I was also always a little too sensitive to my teachers’ feedback and whether or not I felt like they believed in me. Typical teen girl stuff, but it’s possible it’s a paradigm I revert to even when I should absolutely know better…

[mika0116]

I think this is your exact answer as to your current relationship with riding

[fivestrideline]

Prefacing this with the following: as others have said, as long as you’re safe and have competent horse care help, there’s no reason you HAVE to “improve”. You can totally just enjoy your time with your horse!

That said, if you do want to make progress, I think you’re going to have to change your mindset. You’ve got a very common problem where you don’t take critique well but you’re also seeking external validation/praise and to do ‘a good job’. It’s very common to seek that praise by just trying to please the instructor vs actually absorbing the instruction - including the “cheating” by using improper dance form example.

This is not a moral failing on your part - though the American education system in particular has created people that think wrong answer = moral failing - it just means you need some self awareness and tools to change it. Being a self aware and teachable student is almost MORE important than having the “perfect” trainer!

I think I have seen some good articles to dip your toes into this change of thinking - I’ll have to dig around. I’ll admit I’m the stark opposite, I’m highly motivated and competitive, but I also had one hell of a trainer as a kid that gave me the ability to take gnarly criticism and get the good out of it. I am thankful every day for them, despite the tears at the time (I WAS a teenager, so there’s that too ).

It sounds like you need some consistency, some mental skills coaching, and to find some rock solid, quantifiable and measurable goals that you can use to focus yourself and get some perspective.

You could look into trail riding or some baby endurance stuff - maybe that kind of riding will thrill you!

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@fivestrideline

This is not a moral failing on your part - though the American education system in particular has created people that think wrong answer = moral failing - it just means you need some self awareness and tools to change it. Being a self aware and teachable student is almost MORE important than having the “perfect” trainer!

I agree with all you wrote! But I will say that some old skool riding instructors also acted this way too–as if my riding was an affront to horsemanship. I mean, it probably was! But part of learning is making mistakes, and I think it’s a delicate balance of creating a safe space for students to make mistakes, but also keeping the horse and student safe.

I’ve thought a lot about this, because two riding instructors I miss learning from every day, and others I think “how did I stand that so long.” I think many instructors do make their criticism very personal. I think that’s why I preferred dressage, since the focus was less on “being a good rider” versus making the horse perform a certain way, and the question was more “is this effective” versus “am I good” (unlike lots of my h/j riding teachers).

If I had my own horse, I would do endurance in a heartbeat–I agree the OP might just need to get out of the arena!

[dmveventer]

@danhelm441

I know but at some point, it’s like faking it in bed. You’re not doing yourself any favors by lying about it, but when you can tell another metaphor or wordy biomechanical explanation isn’t going to help, you find you’d say anything just to get it over with and move on to the next part of the lesson.

This is actually a good metaphor, because the advice is the same - you have to communicate what you want and not expect the other person to read your mind. Chemistry is only part of the equation. You have to figure out what you want first, and then take responsibility for your half of the relationship even if it feels awkward in the moment.

You’re getting a lot of good advice here but I think you really need to shift your mindset if this is something you’re serious about. As a green rider with a green horse going full DIY is probably a bad idea but it is an option if you decide you dont want to try to make lessons work, you may just have to adjust your goals accordingly.

[Jackie_Cochran]

At one time of my life I was completely stuck with my riding. I was not a bad rider (according to my horses at least) but I just could not seem to get much higher.

Then I got “The Way to Perfect Horsemanship” by Udo Burger. I read the book. I tried something suggested in this book. I had immediate positive results with all 4 of my riding horses.

It was from this book that I FINALLY learned how to coordinate my aids properly, something that several riding teachers (including a great riding teacher) had never taught me. At that time I was horse poor and could not afford riding lessons, it was my riding horses that “told” me “YES, you finally got this” after, in one case, years and years of useless trying (from the horse, “Nope, you STILL are not doing it right.”)

Then a drunk driver drove head on into my car. When I finally got back to riding years later I remembered what I had read and the results I had gotten and tried Udo Burger’s stuff out on lesson horses I had never ridden before. I got results, positive results, with the horses going “YES” in spite of all my problems from MS (bad balance, unable to coordinate very well, and wandering hands.)

I take riding lessons now since I no longer own a horse. In spite of all my physical problems my riding teachers like to see me riding their horses and they like how the horses improve from my riding, improving enough so that other riders also get positive results.

Read Udo Burger’s book. You will stop spinning your wheels, your horse will thank you (mine did) and your riding teachers will be impressed with their suddenly better performing horse.

Udo Burger’s book will get you going in the right direction for good educated riding. It sure did this for me even though I had been riding and training my own horses for decades before I bought this book. Before this I was an adequate rider, nowadays I ride at a higher level that the lesson horses I ride approve of.

In spite of my severe handicaps from Multiple sclerosis.

[mika0116]

This ^

I think at this point the type or style of instruction is secondary. First is looking within and determining desired level of teachability.

I teach a lot of folks many things (whether it is work related - I often teach basic coding / Machine Learning & AI ethics, etc. or personal - I have a consulting business related to navigating corporate life and personal wealth management)

Some folks are not desirous of being taught at various times in their lives. I have many junior employees that I have moved onto other teams for this reason and have declined relationships with personal clients fo the same reason.

I do have some personal resource exercises available (for free) @danhelm441 if you are interested in some inwards looking work to determine your own intentions around being teachable (or not) and some methods to break those limiting paradigms that we all so often revert to in adulthood.

A great first step to change and growth is discomfort with the current status quo - and by posting this - you’re able to articulate you’re not happy with current state of affairs and want something different.

May take some work from you outside of the context of horses to make a change though!

[danhelm441]

@Jackie_Cochran

Then a drunk driver drove head on into my car. When I finally got back to riding years later I remembered what I had read and the results I had gotten and tried Udo Burger’s stuff out on lesson horses I had never ridden before. I got results, positive results, with the horses going “YES” in spite of all my problems from MS (bad balance, unable to coordinate very well, and wandering hands.)

I take riding lessons now since I no longer own a horse. In spite of all my physical problems my riding teachers like to see me riding their horses and they like how the horses improve from my riding, improving enough so that other riders also get positive results.

This is inspiring. As someone who gave up on my passion after what was by comparison just a little knee injury, I have to admire your grit and determination for clawing your way back to it.

On a related note, I feek like that’s why it’s so important to learn (and be teachable) and to consciously practice new skills instead of coasting on natural aptitude. It gives you the resilience to bounce back and push through. I have some of that, and I see how having that has benefited me — I would have given up riding, or given up on my horse a lot sooner otherwise. But I could use more of that interpersonally. I can see how I get really brittle in the coach/student relationship and lose access to the resilience I have when I’m working independently. [quote=“mika0116, post:29, topic:788753”]
I do have some personal resource exercises available (for free) @danhelm441 if you are interested in some inwards looking work to determine your own intentions around being teachable (or not) and some methods to break those limiting paradigms that we all so often revert to in adulthood.

A great first step to change and growth is discomfort with the current status quo - and by posting this - you’re able to articulate you’re not happy with current state of affairs and want something different.
[/quote]

I think this is a great idea and really the root of it. It’s easy to blame instructors and lean into the idea that, with a perfect coach, all the pieces would finally fall into place. But realistically, it’s not an instructor problem that’s making me dread lessons. I actually just started therapy for the first time in my life with a goal of working on things like this. I didn’t bring it up in the session because I thought it sounded like a bit of a first world problem, but I’ll bring it up next time.

(Edited because I hit reply mid-sentence )

[mika0116]

Therapy is great - I am going on lol nearly …15 years of it (CPTSD and a very chaotic childhood due to a now decreased parent’s untreated mental health).

There is no such thing as first world problems when it comes to therapy.

Problems are really just manifestations of all the underlying things that impact they way we feel, think, act, project onto others, blah blah blah.

Stuff takes time - I found therapy not HUGELY impactful for the first 6 or so years LOL. I didn’t really embody any of it until I was about 26 / 27. Nothing is innocuous enough to NOT mention in therapy - enjoy the journey!

Also - I highly recommend taking a lesson with an upper level coach - getting your ass HANDED to you will definitely give some reality to “relying on natural talent” breaks down when asked to apply concepts beyond “natural ability”.

But if you are sensitive to external validation for your self worth - perhaps save that for after a year or two of therapy. Performance in a moment != worth as a human. Liking someone and being surface “nice to them” != respect and value.

Kind of like how a very talented child finishes undergrad university mathematics in high school, but then when placed into grad / phd level maths courses - their performance starts to slip because their natural ability is less and less applicable.

It also is OKAY to not want to go levels deeper / higher / more competitive - enjoyment for luxury sport pets I think is the main goal of us adults!

This graphic is very common in my field of work & I think it greatly applies to riding.

[Against_All_Odds2]

I was like you for about 10 years. Then I quit all together and slowly made my way back. My A-ha moments have come from leaving the hunters and joining low level eventing. I have seriously never had so much fun learning in lessons.

I think in my hunter lessons it felt much more about the horse and having them prepped and auto pilot etc etc. In my lessons with my event coach I am learning how to really ride and adding tools to my tool box. Its not about going fast or running horses hard. Its about tactful riding both on the flat and over fences and having a partnership with your horse

[Scribbler]

If you want to get good at anything it requires natural ability, coachability and willingness to learn, and hard focused work. In different percentages but you need all 3.

Naturally good also has a strong component of having learned those skills super early, often from your parents. Reading, drawing, sports, social dancing, all seem like natural talents if you’re exposed to them as a toddler.

If you are naturally good at some things, it can feel frightening or frustrating to stretch to put in the hard work on something new. But you can also take offense or be threatened by being asked to work hard at something you think you are naturally good at.

Being coachable and learning how to.fimd mentors is a super important skill.

When I was a child and teen, all our school teachers were pretty dim and sports or hobby classes for kids were appalling. I was a self taught rider because the adults involved in horses locally were absolute Yahoos. I learned to avoid adults and didn’t know how to.fimd mentors as an undergrad. By the time I went to grad school in my 30s I had that figured out and it made a huge difference. I also figured out how to be coachable in my main area of ability.

I found getting back into horses in my 40s I was able to find the mentors I needed and to be realistic about their individual strengths and failings.

I watch other adult riders and see how they run the gamut. I feel that coachable and self motivated are linked. You take an idea and work on it.

I had a coach that read Sally Swift. She is excellent on position but she did like to spring Sally Swift ridiculous visual images. I finally told her to stop because being told to kneel like I’m praying just started me wanting to talk about misericords in Norman churches in France and shooting oranges out my knees just made my brain explode. I need very precise literal instructions and even to have my leg poked with a finger. I’m too imaginative and verbal, i need that held in check.

[gradytb]

THIS. If you’ve run into the same pattern with other hobbies, then maybe take a hard look at why. Or, it could be that this is a sport that you like OK, but it’s not a passion. Owning a horse is a lot more than taking lessons once a week. If it’s not that enjoyable, don’t do it. Sell the horse, save the money and do something else—lord, it’s expensive enough when you live for it. Volunteer at horse events or somehow indulge this interest in other ways. And that’s OK. But life is too short to not be doing—in your spare time, at your expense, and "for fun—what really lights you up.

[Foitin]

I am sorry you are feeling discouraged and appreciate your perspective, having had similar feelings. If you are crying after every lesson, it seems like there are many things at play here that are outside of horses. Have you tried reframing your lessons as just another thing you do in your day? As weird as this sounds, it might help reduce some of the anxiety you may have before, during, and after. By pretending to care less, and keeping a busy calendar on lesson days, and then having it as just another line on your calendar, you might actually come to enjoy and benefit from the lessons. It is shocking, I think, how changing your mindset can help. I don’t think there is any shame in this approach, I do it all the time with many things I actually enjoy but that are also anxiety provoking. Its just another activity, here we go!

[IPEsq]

Riding takes talent and hard work. Talent is even more fleeting/harder to find in those who learn to ride as an adult, because it is a hard sport to learn as an adult when you have more responsibilities, more fear, and aren’t a gumby kid that can bounce. So, to make up for that, it takes even more hard work to learn how to use your body in this new, fairly unnatural way. To use your peripheral senses and special awareness. To communicate with a prey animal.

If you kind of cheated and muddled along as a dancer because you could get away with it because you were more of a natural talent, then you never learned to be coachable and how to do the hard work part on your own. To be a good student of any sport, you need to be coachable, you need some mental toughness, you need to be in tune with your own biomechanics (and with horses, add theirs in here too), and you need to be able to apply exercises and techniques into your own problem solving process.

Sure, some learning and coaching styles will conflict. But the student has to be coachable and has to be able to take enough away from a lesson to understand the “homework” and then disciplined enough to do it, even if it’s hard and not linear. There is nothing more frustrating (or sometimes more dangerous) than a student who checks out and does not attempt to follow instruction. But if you are getting feedback that you are riding better in those moments, that should tell you something about your energy and posture and tension during the rest of the lesson.

Another important part about horse sports in particular—practice letting go of expectations. (See above story about horse who only did trot halt). Be in the moment, because that is where your horse is. It is good to have goals, to want to get better at certain movements or activities, and those goals do not have to entail showing. We practice stress and negativity enough hours of the day. Use your horse time to let go of all that. Be present, be connected, and be receptive to all types of information that your horse and your instructor both have to offer you.

[OverandOnward]

@onlyTBmares

Hot take, but you don’t ever have to improve. As long as you’re safe and not causing your horse pain/fear/discomfort then you can keep doing what you’re doing indefinitely.

This right here x 1,000.

It’s your horse, your time, your money, your experience. Make it satisfying to you.

If you feel like a slacker, maybe ask yourself why any goals beyond safe slacking matter to anyone, including you.

There is no point to any of this if the rider isn’t getting some enjoyment and/or just basic satisfaction out of it.

Trust me, your horse will be fine and happy doing less, rather than more. Or doing things at the same level. He might even vote for that.

[OverandOnward]

Both as a rider and a skier, I’ve been told by professional instructors “you take too many lessons”. Just ride! Just ski!

(I was raised by two educators, btw. No such thing as too much learning. )

One actually told me “No more lessons for A YEAR. You need to figure out who you are just as a rider.” I’m paying the guy for lessons, and he didn’t want me to take any more from anyone (except occasional schooling days and clinics). It was very good advice.

OP, you may be feeling that riding means doing all the things that an instructor is telling you to do. But that isn’t riding.

Riding is taking the learning on board, and then focusing on yourself and your horse to make things happen the way you want them to happen.

Think less about lessons, and more about what you want to do with your horse today. That’s my thought.

[mika0116]

Got similar feedback from eventing trainers who generally have a lot more independent riders and owners, BUT they say like instead of 3+ lessons per week - try for 1 or 2 (one jump and one flat).

After 5 years of riding and learning as an adult - no lessons maybe not the best idea if OP wants to continue to improve in specific, tangible areas, but perhaps try riding with a different trainer or clinician weekly /monthly. Pay a different trainer to haul in every 2 weeks and then ride 5x / week independently. so for every 12 rides you ride 10 on your own and 2 with a coach

Just an observation - few riders (or any Ammy or Pro athlete or competitor for that matter) do super well without regular checkins with coaches or strategy sessions.

Regular is subjective - for some it is 1x a month - for others 1x a week while keeping an independent schedule the rest of the time between.

If OP was bored in their lessons or felt like they truly had mastery of the subject matter and was toodling in their independent rides I would generally say - stop the lessons and just ride.

but it seems like there is genuine feedback from coaches that is NOT being executed in lessons.

e.g. horse is not engaged behind at all and is above the bit / not supple not using their core to W/T/C – trainer is attempting to get inside leg to outside rein connection and impulsion, rider doesn’t get it / can’t execute it.

rider then rides independently inverted and not engaging the hind end to step through for the next 3 months, because lessons are hard / suck / make them cry. Horse W/T/C and does crossrails on the forehand and inverted but is behaved nicely.

Rider takes a lesson again, same trainer or new attempts to instruct inside leg to outside rein again - this time using leg yield and shoulder in to teach it - rider is frustrated and horse is CONFUSED AF because horse is NEVER asked to engage behind and is annoyed and out of shape and doesn’t want to or maybe cannot oblige the ask due to stiffness or fitness.

^ the above scenario is pretty likely more so perhaps than a adult rider after 5 years of riding experience being “too reliant” on instruction. Some adults are wicked, fast learners and many adult athletes in different sports (swimming, golf, martial arts, etc.) for example are able to execute instruction independently quickly - def within 5 years of first getting into riding, but OP indicated they have a history of shutting down and slow learning style…

Goals and self worth / ability to accept correction as mentioned above are going to come in handy - with or without a trainer

[BITSA]

I feel like you and I need to have wine together… I could have written so much of what you did and have really had similar experiences. You have gotten a lot of good advice. I’d say try a sports psycholoist and a different trainer, both can make a huge difference. Its also okay to take a break. I rode (for me) pretty hard core for 8 years, then had to euthanize 2 horses in 2 years and just couldn’t mentally get back. I felt like I was so far behind my peers and I couldn’t fix thigs about my riding that I hated. When I finally got an older horse to cart me around it wasn’t fun anymore because I was so self destructive about not “improving.” My trainer was great, but I couldn’t get past my own negativity of not advancing. I actually really wanted to jump on my own (not in a lesson) so I could just feel and enjoy and not worry about mistakes (but couldn’t because of liability issues with the barn). I have a stressful job and riding was supposed to be my timeline cleanser, but it was becoming just another thing I didn’t feel great at. I wish I could tell you I found some magic fix.

I did decide to step back from jumping and showing. My daughter is now riding my horse and I started taking dressage lessons. I am not doing much more than walk/trot and I’m on a lesson horse, but I enjoy every single ride. There is no pressure to get to X height or show at X show. I’m having fun again. I guess what I am saying is try switching some variable (i.e., trainer, number of lessons, get a sports psychologist), but know that taking a break or trying a different discipline is okay too. The dressage ladies think I am the bravest one out there… and that’s fun too. Every path is different and that’s okay. The sport is too time consuming and expensive to not find your happiness.