Quality draft horse saddle?

[Draftmare]

Here we go again… :no:

I have been riding for the last two months in a Silver Mesa, that fit really well…until this past week where I just can’t seem to get it to sit right on her, and it suddenly feels pretty snug in the shoulders. I don’t know how fast horses can bulk up, but I am beginning to think that the wider tree in this saddle allowed her to gain some top line. She is still moving really well in it, but I am so paranoid about it making her sore without me noticing as she never complains about anything. As of right now I can get my hand in the front when I am not mounted, but can’t really get my hand in the front when I am mounted.

I think my only next option is to go to a draft tree. Big Horn and Dakota are on my radar, but I am curious if there are any other good quality draft saddles out there. So many of them I see look like cheap imported junk. I want something that is going to last me a couple of years until I can invest in something higher end and probably custom.

[NoSuchPerson]

I’ve got a Dakota draft saddle on order for one of my ever-expanding draft mules. He’s outgrown everything else.

[csaper58]

So…The Cavallo pad did not work?

Looking at the pics you have posted, IMHO that saddle never did fit. I strongly advise that you educate your eye before spending another wad of cash.
https://draftmare.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/img_6180.jpg?w=366&=489

If you really want a draft saddle…
www.coloradosaddlery.net/shop/pc/draft-saddle-c18.htm.

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8593844]
If you really want a draft saddle…
www.coloradosaddlery.net/shop/pc/draft-saddle-c18.htm.[/QUOTE]

I looked at those (online, not in real life), and while I love the looks of their saddles (not the XXL as much as some of the others, though), it was more than I was prepared to spend for a light use saddle.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8593898]
I looked at those (online, not in real life), and while I love the looks of their saddles (not the XXL as much as some of the others, though), it was more than I was prepared to spend for a light use saddle.[/QUOTE]

OP is looking to spend $2000.00 ish so both are in her range.

This web site has a lot of excellent info on saddle and tree fit.
www.rodnikkel.com/content/

Especially apropos are 1.‘understanding tree measurements’ and 2.‘tree and saddle fitting’. Under the second heading under ‘troubleshooting saddle fit problems’ he discusses down hill conformation, about 1/2 way down the page.

OP might want to consider buying a tree that fits her horse, and then having the saddle built, as she feels ‘down hill conformation’ is a challenge with her horse.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8593844]
So…The Cavallo pad did not work?

Looking at the pics you have posted, IMHO that saddle never did fit. I strongly advise that you educate your eye before spending another wad of cash.
https://draftmare.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/img_6180.jpg?w=366&=489

If you really want a draft saddle…
www.coloradosaddlery.net/shop/pc/draft-saddle-c18.htm.[/QUOTE]

I never got the Cavallo pad, I was thinking about it. I might still get one.

What about the saddle do you think doesn’t fit? It seemed like it fit her really well to start…

There is a Colorado XXL draft saddle posted on eBay right now for $1300, and I wasn’t super impressed with how the quality looked.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8593914]
OP is looking to spend $2000.00 ish so both are in her range.

This web site has a lot of excellent info on saddle and tree fit.
www.rodnikkel.com/content/

Especially apropos are 1.‘understanding tree measurements’ and 2.‘tree and saddle fitting’. Under the second heading under ‘troubleshooting saddle fit problems’ he discusses down hill conformation, about 1/2 way down the page.

OP might want to consider buying a tree that fits her horse, and then having the saddle built, as she feels ‘down hill conformation’ is a challenge with her horse.[/QUOTE]

I have read over that pretty extensively. She is an inch shorter in front, so not as bad as some, but does make it so everything always wants to slide forward on her, and I feel a bit pitched forward if I ride without my correction pad.

[csaper58]

IMO the tree on the saddle pictured is ill fitting because…

The point of the tree is on her shoulder blade not behind it where it belongs. If it were positioned properly, IMO it would tip further down in front, hitting the withers, and if set on the horse sans girth, it would move backward (twords the tail) as the horse walks. This indicates a tree that is too wide.

In order to correct for the improper fit, and raise the pommel, you are placing the saddle too far forward on the shoulder.

That is how I see it in the picture. My best advise to you is to find a qualified, well respected saddle fitter to help you.

[csaper58]

www.rodnikkel.com/content/saddle-tree-blog-from-shop-and-desk/the-trapezius-muscle/

There is a good explanation on this page. Particularly the paragraph under the picture of the withers of the chestnut horse. It starts “Putting the skin back on…”

[Draftmare]

I am surprised that you think it is too wide. I can’t imagine going any narrower on her.

A couple quick pictures I took today: https://goo.gl/photos/ZMHG23xMJUBFaHu38

[csaper58]

Here is a good to test if you have looked a saddle over, and want to be sure it fits. You will need a straight, level stretch of ground, and another person or 2.

Place the saddle on the horse’s bare back in the correct position, with out any saddle pads or girth, if saddle is new, one piece of thin fabric… such as a 30" x 30" piece of bed sheet, may be used to keep the saddle clean.

At a working walk, move the horse forward for about 200 ft (i.e. the long side of a dressage arena). If the saddle stays in place, make a U-turn at a working walk.

If saddle stays in place, proceed to a slow jog trot, and trot about 200 ft. If saddle stays in place, trot the U-turn.

If saddle has stayed in place up to now, girth it up and longe the horse at a walk, jog, and lope, both ways. Stop and remove the saddle. If the sweat marks are good after longing, go for a test ride.

Always have a person on either side of the horse ready to call a halt if the saddle moves out of position, do not continue working the horse if the saddle moves out of position on the horse’s back.

If the saddle moves out of position it does not fit.

An ill fitting saddle must never be forcibly held in place with a tight girth, or breast collar, or crupper.

Note: U-turns do not need to be tight turns. Saddle fit is being tested not the laws of Centrifugal Force.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;8594479]
I am surprised that you think it is too wide. I can’t imagine going any narrower on her.

A couple quick pictures I took today: https://goo.gl/photos/ZMHG23xMJUBFaHu38[/QUOTE]

I think you need to research gullet width, and bar angle and how both apply to saddle/tree fit.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=csaper58;8594600]
I think you need to research gullet width, and bar angle and how both apply to saddle/tree fit.[/QUOTE]

The more I read, the less I feel like I know. I have been watching the CSI saddle pad saddle fitting videos, which were pretty useful and had a similar way of testing saddle fit. This saddle passed all of that.

There aren’t any western saddle fitters in my area, and the only English saddle fitter I would hardly call qualified. According to her all horses should be in banana shaped trees to focus the weight distribution under the rider’s seat bones…

[beau159]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;8594479]
I am surprised that you think it is too wide. I can’t imagine going any narrower on her.

A couple quick pictures I took today: https://goo.gl/photos/ZMHG23xMJUBFaHu38[/QUOTE]

I would prefer to see pictures of the saddle setting on the horse’s back, without a pad and without being cinched.

It doesn’t appear to be a horrible fit by any means, but it’s hard to tell with all that padding under it.

[Draftmare]

https://goo.gl/photos/V2Pqp62RGyWi3iJQ9

Sorry, not the best. The lighting in the grooming area isn’t the greatest.

[csaper58]

OP… It looks like you are still putting the saddle too far forward on the shoulder.

The point of the tree appears to be marked by the screw holding the latigo hanger.

It should not be on the shoulder blade. Slide that saddle back about 2-3 inches were it belongs, and then judge the fit.

There are many Qualified fitters on this board. Could you start another thread using these pics titled “Help me with saddle fit and position”?

You might e-mail these photos to Mike Corcoran and Rod Nikklel and ask them. I can’t promise they will answer but it is worth a try.

Edit: A link to Mike Corcoran’s facebook is on the “thinking about western dressage” thread.

[csaper58]

[QUOTE=Draftmare;8595688]
https://goo.gl/photos/V2Pqp62RGyWi3iJQ9

Sorry, not the best. The lighting in the grooming area isn’t the greatest.[/QUOTE]

Draftmare, I started another thread “Am I Helping or Misleading a Fellow COTHer? Re Saddle Fit”

Maybe it will help.

[rainpants]

If it were my horse and saddle, I’d say it fits fine.

Sits level, enough wither clearance, doesn’t look like it is pinching. And no, I wouldn’t put it any farther back.

If you feel like throwing money around or just want a new saddle, my only complaint on that saddle is it is maybe a little long. Something with a shorter skirt may suit better. But my saddle is the same, particularly on my gelding and the saddle fitter says its fine.

But yes, gullet width and bar angle both affect fit. I have a quite wide mare who needs a semi QH bar and a really wide angle, as opposed to a wider tree… ended up having to go custom, as that particular fit is not so common. I don’t think that is the issue here though and I think if the horse doesn’t mind the saddle, I’d stick with it for now.

[bugsynskeeter]

The first set of pictures, with the pad, the saddle is actually a hair too far back. You want you latigo to go straight down to your cinch, not angle forward or back. The saddle looks more appropriately positioned in the second set of pictures.

[Draftmare]

[QUOTE=fallenupright;8596576]
If it were my horse and saddle, I’d say it fits fine.

Sits level, enough wither clearance, doesn’t look like it is pinching. And no, I wouldn’t put it any farther back.

If you feel like throwing money around or just want a new saddle, my only complaint on that saddle is it is maybe a little long. Something with a shorter skirt may suit better. But my saddle is the same, particularly on my gelding and the saddle fitter says its fine.

But yes, gullet width and bar angle both affect fit. I have a quite wide mare who needs a semi QH bar and a really wide angle, as opposed to a wider tree… ended up having to go custom, as that particular fit is not so common. I don’t think that is the issue here though and I think if the horse doesn’t mind the saddle, I’d stick with it for now.[/QUOTE]

I would really prefer to NOT throw money around right now, though eventually I will hopefully get something that isn’t a training saddle. I thought that things looked really good, and have looked really good until this week when all of a sudden it was like I just couldn’t get the darn thing to sit right on her. Then when mounted it seemed like the front was super snug on her shoulders. To me I should be able to slide my hand down the front of the saddle, if I can’t do that, how is my horse going to slide her shoulder blade back… But she continues to move well in it, and I guess that is really all that matters. Lately she has been feeling pretty fresh and wants to canter…a lot…I think that if it really was a bad fit that she wouldn’t want to do that.

I am pretty new to the western world, I only really started seriously riding western back in July, before that I was pretty exclusively an English rider other than occasionally putting ride time on my neighbor’s western pleasure mare. I really know nothing about fitting western saddles other than what I have read and the videos I have watched. Maybe part of my problem is that I am trying to apply English saddle fitting philosophy to western saddles.

@bugsynskeeter;8596577

The first set of pictures, with the pad, the saddle is actually a hair too far back. You want you latigo to go straight down to your cinch, not angle forward or back. The saddle looks more appropriately positioned in the second set of pictures.

Those pictures were taken after I rode. That is where the saddle typically settles.