Question about Hunt Attire in other Disciplines

[Beverley]

@CarrieK;3423159

I think Aijerene’s question is a bit incomplete. I’d like to add: to what degree are you offended? Offended enough to confront and chastise? Offended enough to comment to a friend? Offended, but keep your thoughts to yourself?

I’d like to think that most foxhunters have reasonably good manners. If it were me, and I saw someone wearing hunt attire at a show, I would no doubt seek to chat them up to inquire about which hunt they are with (if I don’t already know from collar and/or buttons). If the huntstuffwearer were to say ‘oh, I don’t hunt,’ I’d probably say ‘oh, dear, then you really need to take that collar off, and switch your buttons to plain black.’ Or, maybe, ‘oh, dear, I hope the members of that hunt never see you…’

But then I’m not shy. Not too many years back, I observed a young lady getting after her nice horse inappropriately at a competitive trail ride (she was asking the horse to back, and he was backing, except she seemed to think she was asking for a sidepass, and so beating on the horse for disobedience). After I politely suggested she might want to call it a day and take her horse home, and she unleashed a stream of invectives, I said (whipping out my cell phone) fine, I’ll call the animal control folks on over, we can’t have people like you giving horse owners a bad name. She said something about telling her Mom on me, and I said, oh, great, your Mom’s here, where, I’d like to speak to her. At which point she made good her escape to the horse trailer. And I approached the trail ride organizers and said I’d complain loudly if that young lady got any awards (they were too meek to dq her outright).

[WilfredLeblanc]

[QUOTE=Beverley;3423272]
If . . . I saw someone wearing hunt attire at a show, I would no doubt seek to chat them up to inquire about which hunt they are with (if I don’t already know from collar and/or buttons). If the huntstuffwearer were to say ‘oh, I don’t hunt,’ I’d probably say ‘oh, dear, then you really need to take that collar off, and switch your buttons to plain black.’ Or, maybe, ‘oh, dear, I hope the members of that hunt never see you…’[/QUOTE]

And that sounds perfectly reasonable to me, because the collar and buttons represent something very specific. The hunt top boots, on the other hand, seem like a pretty vague signifier–albeit one that some hunters clearly have very strong feelings about. I await further commentary.

Kudos, by the way, for being proactive in protecting biddable but abused horses and taking smart-alecky adolescents to task!

[xeroxchick]

I guess, OP, you are assuming that Swann and Jaeger are not hunters. They are. So the answers are going to be the same over on this board, but this board is not as likely to entertain your trolling for six or seven pages.

[LookinSouth]

@CarrieK;3423159

I think Aijerene’s question is a bit incomplete. I’d like to add: to what degree are you offended? Offended enough to confront and chastise? Offended enough to comment to a friend? Offended, but keep your thoughts to yourself?

Offended? I’m not offended at all. That doesn’t mean I am not going to agree with those that say it would be offensive to them. I don’t have my colors and have only been out hunting one season…many on this board DO and I can understand why they might be offended.

I was a steward at a HT this spring. There was one gentlemen in brown tops at that HT. They didn’t look silly to me because I happen to KNOW him and KNOW for a fact that he hunts and he was dressed in his black wool hunt coat as well.
However, if I stumbled upon a random person at an equestrian event wearing brown tops that I didn’t know I would likely inquire what hunt they ride with (simply out of curiousity ).
If they responded none I wouldn’t chastise or comment behind their back at all…that would be rude. I’d merely chalk it up to ignorance of etiquette and proper turnout for the sport they DO compete in (eventing not hunting). Much like if I noticed someone at a Hunter show with a skull cap and silk on for headgear:winkgrin:

[LookinSouth]

@xeroxchick;3423564

I guess, OP, you are assuming that Swann and Jaeger are not hunters. They are. So the answers are going to be the same over on this board, but this board is not as likely to entertain your trolling for six or seven pages.

Well said:yes:
I’d also like to add that Brown tops as part of the members formal uniform varies from hunt to hunt. Here are some of the hunts in my area, not all of them include brown tops in the uniform…though most do. Tanheath gives a nice explanation of “colors” on their attire page and their significance.

http://www.tanheathhunt.com/Hunting%20Attire.html

http://www.myopiahunt.com/attire.html

http://www.norfolkhunt.com/V2/HuntManners.htm

http://www.onbh.org/attire.htm

[Moderator_1]

Before this becomes a boot-top Groundhog Day, a few words ;):

Ajierene clarified that she is most specifically interested in the boot top aspect of hunting attire in other disciplines.

It appears that there is a bit more range of opinion re: what boot tops signify to different hunts (and what it implies to wear them in the field or in other disciplines) vs. what it would mean to wear a specific hunt’s colors, for example.

Let’s assume the OP is genuinely trying to get feedback on the issue in the forum where the hunting experts reside and stick to giving her your true impressions on the topic.

Theoretically, this thread should not become a debate–it should involve sharing of facts related to the dress code in different hunts and personal opinion regarding how seeing boot tops worn “inappropriately” would make a hunt member feel. If the OP is posting as a research effort on the subject, this thread should be more of an unofficial poll than anything.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[Equibrit]

Tried that - didn’t work!

[goodhors]

Unmentioned is the fact that brown top boots are grooms attire in formal Driving. Grooms would NOT wear boots without brown tops, if they are dressed correctly while on a formal vehicle.

I do think if you have brown top boots, you better be able to ride pretty competently to live up to them. Kind of like the true, working cowboys with knee-high fancy boots and chinks, you are making a statement of your ability by how you dress.

Like they quietly say about someone in cowboy attire, no skills, “All hat, no cattle.” If I saw someone sporting brown top boots at a show, but displaying poor skills with the horse, my comment would be “They probably just borrowed those boots because they matched the outfit.”

[Whistlejacket]

LookinSouth - Thanks for posting those websites.

In tracking down the facts regarding the significance of brown/tan boot tops in foxhunting, it appears that in some hunts, that is part of a gentleman receiving his colors. In other hunts, it is not. In the latter, black dress boots are the appropriate boot for a gentleman with colors.

In addition, as described on the links provided by LookinSouth, it does not appear that it is appropriate for a gentleman without colors to wear the brown/tan boot tops. Black dress boots are indicated.

As such, in some hunts, brown/tan boot tops indicate a gentleman with colors. In other hunts, brown/tan boot tops are not worn - period (except perhaps by the MFH).

In turn, a man wearing brown/tan boot tops in a discipline such as eventing would imply that he earned his colors at a hunt in which brown/tan boot tops are part of that honor.

And goodhors, I totally agree with the “making a statement about your ability by how you dress” comment.

[tangledweb]

@Whistlejacket;3423988

In tracking down the facts regarding the significance of brown/tan boot tops in foxhunting, it appears that in some hunts, that is part of a gentleman receiving his colors. In other hunts, it is not. In the latter, black dress boots are the appropriate boot for a gentleman with colors.

It is, or at least used to be in the MFHA guidelines that tan top boots are appropriate for gentlemen while wearing white breeches, ie while wearing a frock coat or shadbelly/weaselbelly regardless of color status. So although not many wear a black frock or a black tailcoat you will find it in many hunt’s attire guidelines.

Here are a few random hunt websites with wording something like "If a gentleman wears a black frock coat or shadbelly, he should wear white breeches and tan- or brown-topped boots, and he may substitute a hunting top hat for his hunt cap (top hat is the only correct headgear with shadbelly). "

http://www.thewoodfordhounds.org/etiquette.htm
http://www.loudounhunt.com/Attire.htm#Formal%20Attire
http://nhh.glencarry.com/attire.htm
http://www.foxhunting.freeservers.com/PgsMain/attire.html#formal

[linquest]

I was curious about the term “weaselbelly”, having never heard it before. There’s actually a lengthy wikipedia entry on shadbellies!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadbelly

I like this snippet- “When used in the classic hunt, they should not be worn by youth riders, despite the current trend and availability.” :lol:

[SteeleRdr]

@linquest;3424280

I was curious about the term “weaselbelly”, having never heard it before. There’s actually a lengthy wikipedia entry on shadbellies!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadbelly

I like this snippet- “When used in the classic hunt, they should not be worn by youth riders, despite the current trend and availability.” :lol:

Weaselbelly’s are almost like a shad, but are for men. I’ll try to dig up a picture.

[Ajierene]

Thanks to everyone who gave honest and thoughtful feedback. The websites have been helpful in understanding hunt terminology, protocol and traditions. It seems that some hunts require men to wear the top boots with colors while others do not. Some hunts expect men to wear the top boots no matter what.

Interesting that the shadbelly originated outside of the fox hunt, at least according to Wikipedia.

does anyone know of any books or articles that go into more depth about the origins of fox hunting from the beginning to today, especially ones that illustrate how the hunt and their traditions relate to other English disciplines?

[Whistlejacket]

tangledweb -

Thanks for the correction!

As an aside, I saw the following on the Neiman Marcus website marketed as a (fashionista) rain boot for women.

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod61860034&parentId=cat17850768&masterId=cat13030734&index=74&cmCat=cat000000cat000141cat13030734cat17850768

My first thought was “Oh goodness, unless she was MFH, a lady simply would not wear black boots with tan tops!”.

But then again, I am an uptight - East Coast foxhunter! :lol:

[tangledweb]

@SteeleRdr;3424300

Weaselbelly’s are almost like a shad, but are for men. I’ll try to dig up a picture.

Page 5 of Horse Country’s catalogue?
http://horsecountrylife.com/catalog/4/5.swf

They call it a shadbelly, and I am not familiar enough with American terminology to know if that is incorrect when referring to a men’s jacket.

[wateryglen]

Don’t be a wannabe!!

hmmmmm…so now we know Whistlejacket shops at Nieman Markup!! ;):lol:

So if their shoppers buy some and wear some; I reckon they are equestrienne wannabe’s, right? They wanna pretend they are riders and they wanna appear cool or something. And if non-foxhunting english riders wore them; I’d say they were foxhunter wannabe’s. And if I wore those high topped brown western boots; I’d say I was a polo wannabe. And if I wore regular old western boots; maybe I was either just plain smart or a western rider wannabe… We are supposed to wear the uniform of our chosen sport or discipline. You wouldn’t wear cowboy boots for a dressage test right? So why would you want to wear topped boots for anything but foxhunting? It’s not your uniform, it’s not proper for you in a formal setting. Out hacking, trailriding, schooling? Wear anything you want!! I don’t care. But show up at a horseshow with topped boots then I’d say either you were a foxhunter or a foxhunting wannabe. And WHO wants to be a wannabe!!! :yes: Not cool to LOOK like a wannabe. Like it or not; people will snicker if they are aware of it. Be proud of wearing YOUR uniform well, with pride and look good! Anything else is a distraction and not right. You’ve EARNED your right to wear it so be proud for yourself and your horse. You don’t wanna wear someone elses uniform to perform YOUR sport right? Football players don’t want to wear basketball player outfits right? So WHY WOULD YOU!!! I don’t want to dress up like a cowgirl or a showjumper when I’m out foxhunting so why would I?
Ride on my friends! Be well! Come hunting: you’ll forget about eventing quick enough I promise!!! :winkgrin:

[Whistlejacket]

[QUOTE=wateryglen;3424870]
hmmmmm…so now we know Whistlejacket shops at Nieman Markup!! ;):lol: [/QUOTE]

Oh no! :eek:…Just browsing, wateryglen…just browsing. :eek: :lol:

All this joking about has me counting down the days to cubbing. Can’t wait!

[SEPowell]

Lots of fox hunters earned their colors having a blast, no blood sweat and tears at all :lol:

And Ajierene, if you like the looks of hunting attire, you should try hunting! Much much better than the clothes we wear.

[Jaegermonster]

Thank you Xeroxchick and LookinSouth. I appreciate that.
They probably haven’t looked at my profile pic
and no i am not wearing boots with patent tops, even though I am entitled.
Never got around to having them made.

[SteeleRdr]

[QUOTE=tangledweb;3424745]
Page 5 of Horse Country’s catalogue?
http://horsecountrylife.com/catalog/4/5.swf

They call it a shadbelly, and I am not familiar enough with American terminology to know if that is incorrect when referring to a men’s jacket.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is a weaselbelly, incorrectly labeled. Shad’s are for ladies, weasel’s are for men. (Which is just another example of how HC is not always right source for learning proper attire, i.e. they carry ladies “flasks” that are just like mens and go on the front D of the saddle…very inappropriate). I have seen various styles. Thee double-breasted as shown in Horse Country and I am trying to scrounge up a picture of Aidan O’Connell in his.

Here ya go: http://www.shakerag.com/modules/xoopsgallery/view_photo.php?xoops_imageid=3263&set_albumName=album72&id=SH_8947

There are more in that roll.