This may be a little long winded…
Awhile back I was at a horse show (it was a rated show) showing in a 2’ open division and a trainer needed to get on a horse apparently and show it last minute in the 2’ as well. So my trainer gave her my number to go into the ring for the one class she needed to show the horse in (I’d finished showing). Is this allowed? Is it not against the rules to show with someone else’s number? I’m confused :lol:
It got me thinking, when trainers have to show horses in classes as a warmup or whatever for the client, do they need to go to the office and get their own number or do they wear their client’s number?? Is there a rule for a rated show and then a different, more relaxed rule for a schooling show?
Thanks for anyone who wants to clear this up for me!!
horse gets the number not the rider
So if the trainer needs to do one warm up round they’ll just use the same number the rider will use?
What if the trainer is showing the horse in a higher division and that would disqualify the rider/owner/whatever from showing in their lower division? Would the trainer then get their own number to show the horse and the rider would pay for the extra office fees involved for another entry?
And what about the kids that share horses at shows? The horse getting the number doesn’t always apply, right? Because those kids would need a separate number.
The horse always gets the number, Multiple riders share it. I also can’t think of what a pro could show a horse in that would eliminate it from an amateur division.
A number is required to have a score so even if the rider is wearing the wrong number they can complete the class and place.
See mroades.
[QUOTE=brokeasajoke;9031853]
So if the trainer needs to do one warm up round they’ll just use the same number the rider will use?
What if the trainer is showing the horse in a higher division and that would disqualify the rider/owner/whatever from showing in their lower division? Would the trainer then get their own number to show the horse and the rider would pay for the extra office fees involved for another entry?
And what about the kids that share horses at shows? The horse getting the number doesn’t always apply, right? Because those kids would need a separate number.[/QUOTE]
Here in CA each horse/entry is assigned one number (one horse cannot have multiple numbers) due to the fact our state requires drug fees for each “entry” (entry = horse). That’s why number stays with horse, not rider.
Riders fill out entry forms that list what classes the horse is showing in and with what rider. You can have multiple riders per horse/entry. Its the show office job to make sure the correct rider is listed for the classes (for the judge and announcer sake).
Pros can only show in open divisions. It would depend on the show and division rules if there are any “cross entry restrictions” for horse or rider.
In your case, yes you should not have given your number to be used for another horse. That trainer should have gone to the office to make an add or enter the horse. They may have cheated the show out of paying entry fees, drug fees, etc.
Okay, so the trainer would go to the office and have their own entry form but will use the same number for the horse they need to ride in a warmup class or a division earlier in the week? Will that incur extra office fees that are passed onto the clients? Or does that trainer’s entry form for that same horse the owner is riding not incur the office fees? Is it just an entry to specify who’s riding the horse in the class? Is it common for trainer’s not to go to the office for just one single warm up class and just add it at the gate and take their rider’s number and not specify who rode the horse for the class?
You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. Number stays with horse, regardless of rider. Yes, if the show allows an add to be done at the gate, it would not be uncommon to add a trip at the gate, and no one would be surprised if they got it wrong in the online results, or someone didn’t bother to change the name of the rider. Look at some results on www.horseshowsonline.com, select an A show, and select a horse in the pro divisions, and you will commonly see that the horse did a pro division or warm up with one rider, and then an amateur division on the weekend. So the only thing that changes is who the rider is, if they get it right in the office. Who pays for the class depends on who the ride is for - if you asked the pro to ride you pay, if they borrowed a horse, they pay.
And don’t worry if they got it wrong in the results reporting – they got pretty much everything wrong for my horse at a show last year, including listing my trainer as the owner. I enjoyed teasing my trainer that weekend about not sending me a bill since the horse is apparently “theirs” now, but beyond having a little fun with it, no one cared.
There are generally spaces for more than one rider on entry forms, so you can do it all at once. The classes for each rider are noted next to that rider’s name.
See example - http://www.langershows.com/pdf/shows/1484784815GC%20national%20rated%20entry%20blank%202017.pdf
If you need to add classes after you submit the final version of the entry form, then you go to the office and have them fill out an add/scratch sheet that includes the horse’s number, the classes scratched, and the classes added (with the rider name). A copy stays with the office, one goes to the back gate if the class is coming up soon, and maybe there’s one for the exhibitor.
So all the horse-related fees are paid only once.
At some schooling shows they will do on number per horse-rider combination because it’s more common for kids to be sharing a horse. We used to do that at a show series I managed at one point in California and we did have to do some accounting for the CDFA drug fees.
That’s ONE number per horse-rider combination in the first sentence of the final paragraph in the above post.
I tend to overthink things sometimes :lol: Thank you for the clarification! Makes a lot more sense now!! And I won’t stress too much if they get all the info wrong hahaha
Thank you!!
If as different horse was wearing YOUR number it would have been a no-no because it could be double dipping on your entry fee. One horse, one number that is not to be shared with any other horse. A few years ago at a small schooling show a local trainer did this with the intent of double dipping on entry fees and he was banned from the show grounds. Not saying this is what occurred here but don’t be lending your number.
Don’t overthink this but check your bill to be sure you did not pay for the added class your back number went in on that other horse.
Sometimes the rider with that horses back number can’t be located and the substitute rider will wear another to satisfy the requirement but the rider tells the gate who calls the judge and tells them, “rider 85 should be scored as 62”. It happens at unrated schooling shows. Huge no no in nationally rated classes.
findeight is right, check your bill from the show
I run back gate at rated shows. Like how everyone else has explained, every horse gets one number, and if different riders show the same horse, they use the same number. (So my horse has number 123, my trainer shows it and wears 123, I show it and wear 123, and a barn mate catch rides him in a medal and wears 123).
HOWEVER.
It does happen from time to time that people forget numbers, bring up the wrong one, etc. I can’t under any circumstances allow someone to enter the ring without a number on—the judge won’t score them and management will chew my ass out over the radio because they have no way of knowing who to charge the class to. And sending someone back to the barn to find the right number sometimes holds the class up, and I HATE that. In those cases, it’s permitted at rated shows to send someone in wearing the wrong number and to radio over to the judge and announcer that the exhibitor has the wrong number and that the real number is 234, not 123 (or whatever). They write it down as 234, if it’s a back gate add I call it to the office as 234, the office bill matches the judge’s card, the show moves along, and everybody’s happy.
That being said, gate people sometimes mess up or miss that the rider has the wrong number, so check your bill. In the future if that happens make sure someone explicitly tells back gate that the rider is actually number 234, but they’re wearing your number because they don’t have theirs.
I’ve seen it happen where Trainer A wants their horse to go a second time in a class that they already competed in (for schooling purposes). Trainer A asks Trainer B who is waiting at the ring for the next class to borrow the number of Trainer B’s horse who has not shown in the current class but will only show in the next one.
It’s basically a way to get around the rules and put a horse into a class in which it is no permitted to participate. Not a good thing to do.
Thank you all for the input! Very helpful. I’ll have to find that bill and see if I got charged for that class…
I once witnessed at a AA show a pony jock go into the ring wearing the wrong number. Trainer notices it and tells the gate keeper who radios the correct number over to the judge. Pony ends up not jogging. The trainer, a BNPT, makes a huge scene and insists that the steward show up. Everyone relents and they ended up rejogging and repinning the class. I don’t remember where the pony ended up jogging but he was not the winner.
You have to go into the ring with a number, but I have heard that it doesn’t necessarily have to be the correct number.
