Question for judges re: automatic releases

[JibyEq36]

from all of your older pics… I notice that each and everyone of the riders back in the 60’s-70’s have MUCH shorter stirrups. But yes… also look at those beautifully secure legs. Is this a main contributing factor as to why many riders today in the EQ have too poor legs to actually perform an Auto Release? I always see too long stirrups, offering no support- This inhibits the riders from waiting for the horses thrust to close thier body angles like a “frog”…Forcing them to jump ahead, legs slip back, body lay on neck - then producing the short chrest release jabbed into the riders stomach. Am I correct on this??

~~ Melissa & Sherwin Williams~~

[system]

Sorry - forgot you can’t upload two photos!

[M_O_Connor]

I beg to differ, you CAN generalize about trends that are seen within a group, such as the big eq riders…and the judges to whom the original questions were put are in a good position to do just that… specifically, my strongest comments were in response to a statement made by one member of the big eq group: << "the crest realease is what is expected in the top equitation levels these days, if you want to get to finals, and place, etc…its one of the things expected, whether its right or not, oh well, i am still trying to figure out the short crest realease considaring I have just started the big eq…but it is what is definatly expected, and what RIBBONS!>>

We aren’t having a discussion about whether the big eq riders know their theory or not or whether they burn the midnight oil in an effort to get ahead as opposed to looking for an exemption from the nitty-gritty based on privelege: we are instead discussing the disappearance of the automatic release, and discovering that some riders actually believe that it is an undesireable technique to use…

To give Paige her due, she is here in the discussion, and revealing some premises that have really surprised us old-timers, to say the least! The great thing about these boards is that we can all learn from each other–and from the comfort of our living rooms, at that.

[Bumpkin]

Good posting

[Bertie]

On an old thread about releases it was suggested that the way we rode hunters back in the day – i.e., galloping and bold – was conducive to an automatic release. I learned to ride in the '60’s and that was the only kind of release there was. (Except for grabbing mane!) A following release was the natural thing to do when galloping across fields and jumping solid fences. (similar to eventing?)

Then in the '70s I used a crest release to encourage roundness and softness in my hunters. I suppose having learned the auto release first makes it easy to do a crest release whenever you want, because your hands are basically independent of your body. But learning a crest release first might teach you to lean on your hands for support over a fence – something that would need to be un-learned to do an auto release.

“Always speak your mind, but ride a fast horse” – Texas Bix Bender

[Nirvana]

Sorry, but I replied to the wrong thread…my respinse was supposed to go to the “Do Big Eq riders know their theory” thread, not this one…I agree with what you said completely…what can I say, BB newbie screwed up!

[Dementia_13]

Don’t know if you were addressing me, Bumpkin, but actually I am 43, and I learned to ride at Junior Equitation School in 1964, where they did teach the auto release, which I continue to use, with varying degrees of success, to this day.

Some of the generalizations on this thread caused me to take a contrary tack.

[Chanda]

I just noticed that I have reverted back to a more automatic release since my balance and timing have finally returned. I seem to keep a feel of my horses mouth in the air but I notice that my hands appear to be in a crest release, strange. Here is a pic over an X where they are a little more correct.

[Louise]

OK, here’s another stupid question from someone who has never willingly gone over anything higher than a crossrail in her life.

If you are dropping contact, letting the horse jump, then picking it up again while going around a course, getting correct bend, worrying about the right lead, etc – aren’t the chances pretty good that you would be hitting the horse in the mouth when you pick up the reins and take contact again?

I would think that would be the superiority of the automatic release. You are giving the horse its head and its freedom all the while maintaining contact, so that you don’t have to worry about slamming the mouth if the slightest thing goes wrong after landing.

Now, mind you, this is from a dressage rider who has had it pounded into her head from the first lesson she took that - above all things - you must keep a constant contact, so I will admit that I could be just the tiniest bit prejudiced.

[ccoronios]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>“The crest release is a bad American disease.” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROTFLMAO!!!

[larosa90]

AAAaaahhhhHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Sandy_M]

Well, I think the problem per se is not what YOU are doing, but what the judges are doing. Certainly there is nothing harmful to the horse in a crest release. I’m sure that if I checked all my cross-country photos they’d be about 50/50 crest release/automatic release depending upon the nature of the fence (or any problems I had with it G). But then, I wasn’t doing eq under controlled conditions, but was on cross-country!

What I’m wondering about is WHY crest release became the standard: Certainly a judge should not regard a crest release as BETTER than an automatic release? I’ve looked at pics of ‘50s era Medal winners (like Mary Mairs Chapot and Wm. Steinkraus, etc.) and “way back then” that automatic release was paramount. Using a crest release THEN would have been regarded as something one did because one lacked stability (at that one fence or perhaps overall) or had hit a bad spot and used crest release to avoid any harm to the horse’s mouth, etc. - all of which would result in a lower placing - not a win. So do we blame GM for making this the contemporary standard rather than an automatic release? He’s only one guy - and while he’s very influential, I’m just surprised that so many judges would jump on the bandwagon and move away from what was long considered the REQUIREMENT for such things as championships. I can’t imagine that somewhere along the line, GM didn’t make it clear that crest release was something that those who aspired to eq medals should at some point leave behind them… and yet these days "everybody’s doin’ it" - and it is rewarded - and so it has become the standard for winning. Just seems strange to me. But then, I’m an old fogey contemporaneous with Kathy Kusner and those old folks! G

[Bumpkin]

Thank you Midge

I know how much this subject means to dear Dublin, so when the Auto Release thread appeared and the poster, etc… looked as though they had not seen this wonderful thread I thought I should revive it for them.

Nice to see a good discussion going on the new thread.

[Coreene]

Ooh ooh ooh, we watched all sorts of wildly expensive Big Eq horses this weekend, and not one managed an automatic release. Ouch!

[M_O_Connor]

Go back to page 6 and look at the two photos I “borrowed” from Taryn who posted them on the Off Course forum re CSI Blenheim/Grand Prix of the USA…Joe Fargis’s release on Edgar is far shorter than Ramiro Quintana’s on Lacoste…Also look in the July 6 issue of COTH on page 38 at the photo of Beezie Madden on Innocence…Depending on what the course is calling for, the rider can exert tremendous influence on the horse while in the air–these three photos are good examples of how varying degrees of auto-release are used.

[Bumpkin]

I wish I could stop and answer you, but there are many on here who can.
And better than myself.
Off to work to pay for the horses!! haha

[Twister]

Someone could also propose a rule change to the judging section of the Equitation rules along the lines of…

In Open Equitation and Medal classes over fences, an automatic release (following hand) is recommended.

[Greenbrier]

I was a student of GM and enclosed is a photo of an automatic release on one of my large ponies from the early 70’s.

[Alex]

Well since I�m SAFELY out of the junior eq ranks, it�s probably snotty of me to suggest that eq riders be asked to demonstrate crest release in the first round and in subsequent rounds to use auto release. It�s best to be able to use either one as conditions warrant…and although the auto is more highly prized for obvious reasons, the other also is part of equitation. Why not acknowledge the value of both releases by demanding perfection of both skills at the eq level?

Both these skills need to be taught to young riders and they shouldn�t be allowed to come into or out of fashion…They are necessary for complete horsemanship over fences.

[Janet]

There have been two recent references to riders who only ride 2 to 3 days a week.

When weather/work/family life gets hectic, I may ride only 3 days a week, but I don’t expect to make any progress (me or the horses) on that schedule. (I have even been known to miss a whole week.)

To get anything done I need to ride at least 5 days a week.

Just curious what the rest of you think is the amount of riding you need in order to make progress.