Question for judges re: automatic releases

[ccoronios]

I believe that GM is indeed the father of the crest release (and the puke green breeches) - both designed for easy identification of his students. And of course, spread like the plague once realized, since ‘if his students do/wear this, it must be right’… I do not for a minute believe that he ‘invented’ the crest release to become what it’s become - a crutch for unready riders to jump sooner and ‘bigger’ than they should. I have far too much respect for his knowledge and ability and standards to imply that. However, it’s far easier for wannabes to lean on the neck than to develop an independent seat, enabling them to follow their horse’s head/ neck movements softly. I believe we used to call this ‘grabbing mane’?! OK OK - I KNOW that one doesn’t actually grab mane in a crest release - but it sure allows more ‘outside support’ than the free hands of an auto.

And, of course, I’m not implying that ALL eq riders pose.

[M_O_Connor]

we can’t reward what we don’t see! I was at the judge’s clinic when they did the Masters class…despite a surprising “boogie” fence (an unexplainable contageous spooking phenomenan that affected a bunch of the otherwise poised entrants, auto release or no), it was a pleasure to watch…but it was an equitation fantasy event, which bore not much relationship to actual situations judges encounter in real-world equitation classes. Too many horses have learned to jump without moving their heads at all, too many riders don’t move thier hands at all, unless it is to yank backwards on takeoff…we didn’t get to discuss that trend at the clinic, however, and it certainly didn’t occur to me that any rider would think that performing in this way is a technique actually desired by judges, and necessary to win…I mean, REALLY!

[Pocket_Pony]

Last year Rich Fellers came to our facility to do a clinic, and it seemed his main focus was on teaching the participants the auto release. It seemed like, while these jumper riders were very effective and are clearly skilled at jumping 4ft +, using the crest release has become a habit. These riders are strong and have independent seat and hands, and they certainly don’t NEED to use the crest release, it is just such a habit that it is what they revert to.

Rich started out doing a series of 3 jummps on an arc and had people use the inside rein to keep jumping on a circle. Mind you, they started over itty bitty 18" jumps. Once they seemed proficient at that level, he’d move them up a bit to higher single jumps. But when it came down to doing courses, almost all the riders reverted to the crest release…

I’ve been trying to practice the auto release when I’m practicing on my own, but when I’m in a lesson and trying so hard to focus on what my trainer is telling me, I forget to focus on the auto release . . . really I don’t know what I look like. Sometimes I grab mane if I know it is going to be ugly, but I don’t think I lay on his neck, I’m not sure - time to get the video camera out! I must say I’ve been shortening my stirrups for jumping and that has helped my base a lot!

“Oh Mickey you’re so fine, you’re so fine you blow my mind, hey Mickey! Hey Mickey!”

[Sleepy]

Exactly, JibyEq! There is no way for anyone to have a really secure base over fences with their stirrups 2 holes too long. The only reason I could come up with for these long stirrups was to make the leg look longer and thinner. Or possibly, it’s the fact that they are on 17h+ monstrosities and it’s the only way to have any leg at all on the horse. Who knows? But, to me the whole look is really unattractive.

[Buckybu]

This is probably not what a lot of you want to hear, but you will hear it anyways, because I speak what is on my mind.

Quotes such as “But WE were taught to ride…” blah blah blah are quite a generalization. midge just confided that she WAS NOT taught to ride. She learned the same time you did. And much the same as some of you were taught to ride probably and some were not back in the day, so are and are not being trained properly today. It is quite maddening to be readng a lot of you say IT WAS RIGHT A LONG TIME AGO. I see a lot of pictures of riders from the 60’s and 70’s getting left behind cathing there horses in the mouths, but maintaining the ever precious 'Auto release" I can do and use the auto… I use it to teach landing on proper leads and for my greenie who will stop in mid air if I drop the contact, but I ride another horse who will stop if I don’t give 2 strides out. So yes there is a place for both… the horse will tell you. But to say the Auto is the be all and end all is ridiculous. There were probably lots of people showing in the old days who should have been using the crest release for their benefit, and the benefit of the horse.
Also, some of the pictures posted of riders doing auto releases show cardinal sins of Eq. Pivot on the knee, look down, leaning on the neck… i am not saying that I don’t have these faults, god knows that I habitually jump ahead on horses I overly trust, but still EQUITATION WAS NOT PERFECT THEN AND IT IS NOT PERFECT NOW.

Ok, sorry about the ramble, but I guess my main point was Some people ARE TAUGHT Today… some people WEREn’T taught then. People always remember things better then they were… it’s not human nature to share bad memories!

[Beezer]

This thread made me reach back into the dark recesses of my mind … and, boy, is it ever dark back there!

I can actually recall the first time I ever heard the phrase “crest release”: It was the day after my first trainer got back from a George Morris clinic. I have pictures of me as a little itty bitty kid using an auto release; then, somehow, I was suddenly using the CR.

Frankly, I think that like many great ideas, this one was misused and abused. I spent endless hours as a little kid riding with no reins, one hand, bareback, whatever, learning to be an independent rider. Believe me, I am not putting the problem on George’s doorstep; I just think that what was supposed to be viewed as an aid for beginners and intermediates has turned into an entrenchment for pretty much everyone. I’m often amazed/appalled/amused by the pictures of open A-circuit hunter riders with their hands up by the horse’s ears and their bellies draped over the horse’s neck – talk about the CR done wrong!

I’m rambling, I know. (It’s a looooong trip back from those dark recesses. ) These days, I have to say I probably use a combination of the two: An auto when called for, a crest when it’s called for. But the CR is now sooooo ingrained in me (Oh, how the echoes of “CREST UP!” ring through my head!) that IT has become the “automatic” release. I’d imagine it’s the same for others.

Bulletin Board Goddess

[Janet]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I see a lot of pictures of riders from the 60’s and 70’s getting left behind cathing there horses in the mouths, but maintaining the ever precious 'Auto release" I can do and use the auto… (cut) …There were probably lots of people showing in the old days who should have been using the crest release for their benefit, and the benefit of the horse. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If your are catching the horse in the mouth, it ISN’T a following hand, regardless of whether there is a straight line or not.

Yes, in the process of LEARNING a following hand, a lot of us got left and caught the horse in the mouth (or slipped teh reins to avoid it). From the point of view of THAT JUMP it would have been better to do a crest release (or grab mane). But if you never TRY to have a following hand, you will never achieve it.

Nothing ventured, Nothing gained.

The situation you describe is the REASON GM pushed the “crest release” so hard in the early 70s, but even he agrees he went to far.

[Bumpkin]

I had stated Andrew Ramsey showed a great crest release in the Devon photos.
I really mean he showed a great auto release.
I just corrected it, but for those of you who read it incorrectly the first time…sorry!!

Dublin has scads of great photos, showing auto releases. If you check her profile, I believe you can get to her webpage/photo file.

[Twister]

Gofer, the horse’s jump has not devolved, it has gotten much better! The hunters today on the whole jump much better than the horses from the seventies. I think it a combination of more inviting jumps and less contact in the air. I donb’t think a following hand will get the best out of the hunters in most situations.

In the eq., OTOH, riders often ride in a position that will ultimately produce poor jumping. Couple that with a desire to show flat jumpers that are easy to stay with in the air and you’ll see one good jumper out of 100.

[Bumpkin]

I wasn’t poking at anyone, I liked the “Whippersnapper” word, makes a great pony name don’t you think???

I guess I never took the whole thread to be saying that things were so much better, just that the auto release is what the goal was not stopping at the crest release.

But I am very olde and could be totally confused in my olde age
JMHO

[Nikki]

Dublin, your pix has the most beautiful auto release I’ve ever seen! Why don’t you mail it to Practial Horseman’s Jumping Clinic?
Beezie’s horse’s knees are to his eyeballs! WOW Could that style clean up in the working hunter classes?

Also, how can I learn how to do an auto release? I’m still on the crest release, but I’d like to learn how to do the auto.

http://www.dmtc.com/dmtc98/Pedigree/ you can look up you Thoroughbred’s Pedigree with photos 9 Genrations back!
Men come and go, but my horse will always love me!

[Twister]

Louise, I am not sure why you think there is more likelihood of slamming the horse in the mouth. Try it yourself. Get into what is sometimes called ‘jumping position’, with you hands pressed on the horses’ crest and your weight in your heels. then, return to the saddle.

If something goes wrong after the jump, your release while over the jump won’t have any bearing.

[dublin]

I just viewed a number of photos from the Towerheads site of competitors in this class, and felt compelled to bring up my topic once more.

There are 15 jumping photos of some of the top equitation riders in the country, and only a few are showing anything near an auto release. All the others are most definitely NOT using auto releases. The majority of the photos were taken squarely over the top of the fence where I would have expected to see auto releases, but basically didn’t.

Anyone else see these photos and notice this? And are auto releases actually used by the top eq riders? It certainly doesn’t appear so from these photos.

“Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.” - Dennis Miller
March Madness 2002 - Go Bruins!!

[This message was edited by dublin on Mar. 14, 2002 at 06:39 PM.]

[just_me]

==============================================
That picture of Kathy Kusner and Aberali is also
shown on her business webpage, and the caption
reads Aachen, Germany, wall 7’2" (!!!)

7’2" YOWZA!!! It’s been a loooong time since I’ve been in NYC to go to the National, but unless my memory is playing tricks on me, I remember seeing Simpatico jump the Puissance wall. I think it was 7’1" or 7’2.

[Louise]

Sandy M - twister is a judge

And, she raises a very good point, just what is the solution when the whole field is not jumping up to “acceptable standard”?

Too bad you can’t do what can be done with some kind of awards and just not award a first place, because there was no one qualified to win. (I do know that’s impossible)

Hmm - maybe another arguement for numerical scoring, huh? That way, someone will win, but will know by their score that there is certainly room for improvement.

[findeight]

My 2cents worth. In the upper level Eq. I would love to see the auto release. The trainers may well be protecting the horses. Remember society in general is into instant gratification and many of these riders may have been bumped or pushed to these levels before they were ready. Better to see something that protects the horse then critisizing riders for not doing something they cannot and should not do. Again the crest release does protect these fine old eq horses from an insufficient base(leg). I still see the top riders using auto which is as it should be.

[Sandy_M]

I thought you were saying “Everyone is doing crest release and how can I NOT do it and be competitive, since that’s what the judges are rewarding.” I didn’t realize you were speaking as a judge and meant that there was absolutely no one doing an automatic release for you to reward.

I’m still mystified how this came to be an acceptable standard for equitation winners. In a hunter or jumper class, one does what is necessary to be effective/to best present the horse/to win. When, in equitation, did the standard of “crest release” become entrench as the thing do so in PREFERENCE to an automatic release? Or are we saying that NO ONE can do a correct automatic release, so crest release is now the standard? Aaargh!!!

I still look upon Steinkraus and Fargis as models and remember Jane Dillon’s old “Form Over Fences” book where 9 year old Joe rides so beautifully - and for the most part with an automatic release (and everyone in the book who is not a beginner or illustrating a beginner fault does an automatic release!)

[PaigeHortman]

WEll no matter what anyones opinions are, the crest realease is what is expected in the top equitation levels these days, if you want to get to finals, and place, etc…its one of the things expected, whether its right or not, oh well, i am still trying to figure out the short crest realease considaring I have just started the big eq…but it is what is definatly expected, and what RIBBONS!

[jumpsalot]

I have been teaching the Auto release to my students when I think that they are ready. One student was really happy to hear someone ringside actually say, " Watch that girl’s release, that is what I am trying to get you to do."
the auto release helps to get rid of some of those icky habits that come from nowhere, like floating one hand over the crest or 4 inches in front of the other.Right CL? I have got to say, the horses jump just fine & turns are MUCH easier.

[LaurieB]

Hi Nancy! Great picture and beautiful release. Isn’t that the picture that’s in The Pony Book?

LaurieB (who also posts old pix of Pride occasionally)