Questioning a board price increase - yes, I understand inflation

Susan’s Rule #1 - Do not build a facility that you have to board to pay the upkeep and costs of the facility. Figure out what you can afford to do on your salary and build that barn. If you decide to offer boarding, layups, whatever - you can do them but you are not depending on that income to survive.

I told that to a friend that was planning on building a barn with her wealthy sister. Oh no - We need to build this million dollar barn. Boarders were never happy with what the barn owner spent money on, sisters moved out and didn’t speak to each other again, tax issues with personal horses’ expenses. Wealthy owner got tired of the money drain and sold it for a huge loss to a wedding venue owner. Beautiful barn though. If they had built something modest for their own horses it might have ended differently.

I am too far out in the sticks and weird to offer boarding and I like my privacy. Yes I would like better facilities but I wouldn’t want to be having this conversation with clients. Yes my hay costs suck and will most likely get worse. No I wouldn’t want to have to go get cheaper hay for you so the board does not go up and then hear you whine because my horses are eating better hay. I can make more as a Walmart greeter and no stress. Kudos to you people that board! You are nicer people than me.

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How long do you think boarding barns will remain in existence if farm owners need to have a second job to make the business viable and have a reasonable quality of life?

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All of them. Why should a barn owner subsidize anybody. It costs what it costs, and if you don’t like it go somewhere else

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Boarding horses does not make money. Period

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100% accurate - Thank you for posting these real-life IRS income points
In reality, the 8% and 16% rate increase that prompted this thread probably did not move the income needle for the barn owner enough to celebrate with a nice bottle of wine after she paid the most recent feed bill.

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that is the general consensus but my boarding farm did make money on boarding alone otherwise it could have been declared a hobby

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I feel this is why the boarding barns are surviving in my area are those catering to higher-end markets (i.e., offering showing and full training) who are less price-sensitive about increases in board. And unfortunately, the ones catering to the lower end of the market are offering genuinely substandard care. It’s one thing not to have a heated wash stall and quite another thing to have crappy hay. I’ve often seen people who just look at the monthly cost of boarding because it’s what they can afford, and then realize that there’s a reason the board was so cheap and there were empty stalls, even if the BO put up a good front and kept in the crazy during the first meeting. We all know that penny-pinching can quickly bite you in the ass in the long run in vet bills (at least, with many horses).

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I have a private farm with 40 acres and multiple pastures. I am constantly turning down people who ask about boarding. Mainly because I work full time (home office) and simply cannot justify the labor costs.

I am constantly amazed by how low the local board prices are. There is simply no money in boarding, and IMO, boarders need to be more grateful that barn owners are willing to board at such low rates. My theory is that show barns and lesson barns do board at close to a loss so that boarders can afford shows, training, and lessons. I will board only when I have extra hours a day to simply give away because I have nothing better to do. Proper horse care is very very time consuming.

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A couple thoughts, in some kind of loosely-connected order.

First, on field board vs. stall board, amenities thereto, increases, and what the market will bear: My early retiree is currently on field board. Hay is provided when necessary, you have full access to indoor/outdoor rings, and they’ll hold for vet/farrier, but blanketing and providing/feeding whatever you want is on you. She’s a hard keeper, so I’m out to feed every day, but most who do field board have horses where this isn’t required.

This costs 2/3rds of stall board, and the last increase fell–as a percentage–more heavily on field boarders than stall boarders. I am fortunate enough to live in a very horsey area where there are many options for field board. When she retired and I was considering where to put her, I looked at a field board farm, closer to my house, where they would have fed and blanketed for me for less than I’m paying currently.

Easy choice, right? Why didn’t I?

Because the fields were, while of sort of adequate size, nowhere near as nice or as well-kept, and the care was… less good. (Yes, even though I’d be out daily.)

The place that Mare is at pretty much always has a wait list for field board. There’s a reason why.

Given the above, as well as long-term desires, I am and have been in the market for my own farm. If I’m going to be spending an hour and a half to feed every day anyway, it would be nice to not have to put pants on and drive somewhere to do it. (Also, I’ve worked in a lot of barns. I can definitely feed in less than an hour and a half without the drive, even adding a companion.)

Eventually, the plan is to bring not just the retiree home, but also a competition horse or three. In order to facilitate that, it would be lovely to have an arena, plenty of land to support easy horse care, and appropriate outbuildings to support grain/hay/tack storage, as well as stalls for layups. That said, even getting back the time I’d be using to commute, I’m dubious about being able to keep more than two in work with my job, so I wouldn’t expect to have more than three or four of my own, and most of the facilities that come with a pre-built ring can accommodate considerably more horses than that.

I have, of course, as someone who’s worked in a number of barns and also someone who is generally pretty cheap, considered the idea of doing boarding to offset costs. But here’s the thing: I don’t want to deal with other people’s feral, murderous beasts plus lose all my privacy for free! My horses, my behavior standard, my emergency treatment standard, my vet/farrier care standard, my overall quality of life standard. Someone else’s horses? None of those apply. So I wind up filling in the manners gaps when Dobbin spins and tries, successfully or not, to kick me in the head when I turn him out.

And that’s before we even talk about hiring staff, which would almost certainly be a necessity given the fact that making time to hold for my own animals’ farrier and vet appointments is hard enough. I don’t even mean the direct costs associated–I mean the time associated with supervision, selection, training, and retention. As someone who’s done a fair bit of leadership in my day job, with salaries much higher than what I’d realistically be able to afford to pay… no thank you.

There is a farm on the market right now in my county, slightly above my budget (but workable with the business plan), with 50+ boarders and a staff that already lives onsite. The seller, interestingly, is also an adult ammy. If I bought that farm (which, to be clear, I don’t plan to do), I strongly suspect I would be closing to boarders within the year, because if I’m going to be on-call 24x7 for other people’s animals, I damn well better be gettin’ paid.

And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who feels this way.

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This is why boarding barns are dying. If you want to purchase a larger scale property in particular, even one already set up for boarding, if you have to take out a mortgage, you are screwed from the get-go unless maybe you can offer a high dollar training service or something specialized that would allow you to charge board plus something else. Board rates tend to remain far too low on what the market will bear for the math to work. The overhead + costs is going to break down to be over what people want to pay, forget paying your staff. People eventually want out of the business and retire or move on, but it’s very difficult for anyone to come in and buy it. Increasingly more so year after year.

A business absolutely needs to pay its overhead, which includes property costs. To expect a BO to subsidize a business’ overhead by having another business /career is nuts.

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I have 23 empty stalls on 11.5 acres with an exerciser. Plus I keep 3 acres of my neighbors property mowed and have access to ride there. My horses and goats only occupy 4 stalls.

I’m putting in over 150k in improvements this year. New fencing, installing a ring, new stall fronts, pasture maintenance plus various other yard work. I might offer dry board to a like minded individual, but to open up to the public would be a big fat nope. It’s not worth my time and the wear and tear on my property.

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As someone who is building their own facility… and has been pondering on boarders, this thread has made me definitely not want them. Way too much headache. I want to enjoy being in my barn, around my own horses.

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The mortgage factor is true of rental properties as well. The amount due every month for a mortgage payment can be a heavy burden for an income property to bear.

Typically, the owner needs go in with a high down payment and a LOT of equity, to keep the mortgage payment and interest expense down enough to allow positive cash flow. So a lot is invested in this property.

If a property is not returning a profit at a sufficient rate, one is financially better off with a smaller farm, and putting the money into a more safe cash investment paying higher-interest.

As the decades have rolled on, board and training barn owners are an aging demographic. Younger people who are mid-career age are less and less likely to be a board barn owner. They usually have not yet earned enough to buy a farm with a large down payment.

The older BO’s either bought in for a much lower price than current market; and/or have already paid down or paid off the mortgage; and/or inherited the property. Either way, they don’t have as heavy a burden for the monthly payment. In some cases they may not have a monthly mortgage payment at all.

Board barn ownership makes less and less financial sense for people who are mid-career age. For younger people it is out of reach, unless they have special financial circumstances.

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“boarders need to be more grateful…”

I feel this. I was a boarder for a few years when we had to move off the farm and live closer to work. I kept my horse at a large lesson barn that required x amount of lessons or training rides every month on top of board. I paid it every month despite rarely if ever utilizing those services because I know how slim those margins are for boarding.

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Some barns in my urban area tend to operate under conditions unique to this discussion.

Many are on land owned by a municipality and are leased to the BMs at a reasonable rate to provide recreational opportunities much like a city owns the public parks. The BMs then must also run a riding school and training barn to make money. For one barn in particular, I know the BMs make their “Tesla” income buying horses in Europe for their clients. But the city ownership of the land is fairly common.

Some barns are owned by large construction companies and are assumed to be tax shelters or even money laundering operations. So the fact that no one makes money boarding horses is useful to them and keeps it affordable for boarders.

You’ll find a lot of horses living alongside a freeway where residential development isn’t as likely.

There are also a lot of smaller, privately owned barns, but would anyone at today’s prices buy property and improve it to board horses? Only the rich who want a place for their own horses.

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I had a boarder last year when she also leased our cabin on the property. I knew her beforehand, and knew she could be a little scattered. It was in the lease and repeated verbally ad nauseum that she was responsible for her own hay and doing her horses. They were literally a 30 second walk from her back door.

Time and again:
she texted me after dark “can I buy 2 bales of hay??”
I found their water empty
I gave them my hay because they were in a dry paddock and it’s 2pm and she hasn’t set foot outside yet today
I loaned her tools to repair their fence and she left them in the dirt where they got rained on and covered in mud.
Etc etc etc

She had a truck. She was in school full time. What she didn’t have was the brains to take care of her responsibilities or respect my equipment.

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I would have had that person out of there yesterday.

Without reiterating the whole thread, I agree with the general theme- boarding is expensive, time-consuming, and not profitable.

I’ve really had great success moving to the self-care model, with carefully screened applicants, minimum number of horses (no onsie-twosies), and a very clear contract that it is entirely self care. I make sure all personalities fit, and it’s very clear what is shared access (ring, wash rack) and what is your own private areas.

I moved from nonprofit to good profit. I charge a per-stall fee and have no expenses or hassle. They are free to manage their horses as they see fit and I get no complaints! “Dobbin needs more hay at lunch, more bedding, blankets for every 10deg weather change” - “no problem, have at it!”

It hasn’t worked for everyone, I had one party that was here for a few months and realized they preferred to pay more and go back to full care boarding. No harm no foul and good luck.

Im not making enough to cover all expenses on the place- maintenance, tree trimming, things that break- but I do make enough yo significantly offset the mortgage. I’d be paying all those things anyway whether the place was empty or not so I’m satisfied

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She was only here 6 months, once I had recouped my investment in the cabin remodel, she was outta here. And she had a hard exit time of 6pm on a Sunday, 2 weeks after school was done. She was still getting crap out of here 2 weeks later, just absurd behavior.

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Man you must vet your boarders extremely well because I have seen and heard this failing spectacularly!

When I boarded, I did, because I’d rather have eight horses owned by three people than eight different people. Less wear and tear on driveway, tack room, etc, less phone calls/text messages, collecting less checks. Now granted when they get behind they get behind faster but still.

OKay now, don’t be trying to say boarding barns ALSO need to be doing their taxes on the up n up :laughing:

I did the math for funsies and I’d be charging about $600/mo for stall w/ bedding, tack room use, arena, turn in/out, and hay plus my time. No indoor, nothing fancy, just safe regular boarding. There is no chance I’d find someone who would pay that and then not expect me to do a ton of extras to “make up” for what they feel they are paying.

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I guess that was what I was trying to find out since so many BO’s ( and boarders) on here are always saying how you can’t make money boarding horses. Of course you can but your profit/ debt ratio has to be right.

That applies to any business, doesn’t it?

I know a lot of people on here get mad at my comments and maybe I lack the skills to type what I am trying to say, but there has to be a reason so many can’t stay afloat boarding horses. It can be a profitable business and for some BO’s it is.

A restaurant can be a very profitable business but we see the majority of the new restaurants go belly up here within 1-2 years. Some due to debt, some due to the lack of quality help and many due to the fact that it just cost more to run a restaurant than they ever planned on.

We started our farm business of contract farming nursery pigs back in 1995. The company we contracted with supplied everything we needed to raise the pigs. We had to pay for building the barns to their specifications and the loan had to be paid off in 10 years.

So basically we made some extra money in the first 10 years but a big chunk paid the loan/ insurance and after that is when it started paying for itself and it really did. Through all our 25 years of doing it they absorbed the ups and downs of prices, not us.

All that to say if you have huge debt starting out ( like an expensive farm purchase) I can see how a boarding operation would struggle to make it. Most any new business would.

If you have personal horses that are taking up not only boarding space but you are not paying for their upkeep out of pocket( they are also covered out of boarding income) that is just more of a financial drain.

It all adds up and quickly.

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