I have been window shopping, doing some research and trying to train my eye, as I am planning on buying in a couple of months (possibly a warmblood, possibly an off breed). After reading what I could find on hypermobility in horses I have questions!
What do you look at to decide if a particular horse is hypermobile?
How low should a normal pastern drop at w/t/c at liberty?
Can it be seen in young foals and weanlings or is it better to watch the mare move? (I have seen more than one video of a foal/dam where the dam was showing very weak pasterns, even at the walk).
If anyone would be willing to post a couple pictures pointing out the differences in gait between horses who have normal range and one who is hypermobile, it would be most appreciated!
I hear that phrase over and over again but no one will post any videos giving an example. If I can’t see it then I can only deduce it isn’t a thing 
. I think I am pretty good at discerning wonkiness on a video so I want to see what people are describing as “hypermobile”. Soft pasterns? or what?
Don’t overlook the stallion also,
some WB sires are allegedly
soft in pasterns.
Do the limbs look like they are under control as they swing forward and back, or do they look like they’re just swinging and like a weighted blob on the end of a string?
This needs more context, including the length and normal slope at a halt, as well as how much suspension is in the gait. But generally, a fetlock shouldn’t be approaching ground level at a trot. But that said, is that because the pasterns are too long and/or sloped to start? Or is it a laxicity issue?
Because foals and weanlings don’t have the body weight of an adult, though have almost adult length legs, it’s really much harder to see this at that age. Even looking at the dam is only a small part of the equation. There’s also a stallion involved, and they’re both adult weights.
The real fear is that extravagant movement can be linked to early warning signs of DSLD which is progressive and tragic. And shows up first in pasterns and perhaps repeated soft tissue injury.
Unfortunately there is no genetic test, just a biopsy after symptoms develop. It’s heritable but I don’t think there is transparency yet among all breeders. Like how hard it was to face up to HYPP in QH.
Long pasterns don’t mean DSLD. Big movement doesn’t mean DSLD
All good foals look floaty. All stallions have a little extra oomph. The mare is likely closer to the outcome of a mare or gelding offspring. But check out why she is a broodmare. Repeated career ending soft tissue issues?
My TB mare had DSLD, however she wasn’t started until 5yo, when I bought her due to an accident with a gate that had a lengthy rehab, and nasty scar. Then I didn’t do much beyond novice/training level eventing and 1st level dressage with her. She had time off when I went to collage and then was bred twice, before being diagnosed with DSLD at 18. She didn’t have any soft tissue injuries that were apparent, when I was riding her, but looking back she definitely had ulcers (this was before ulcers were widely known about at least at low levels).
From my reading, hypermobile horses need to be carefully managed to avoid soft tissue damage. I would like to avoid that if I can.
eta Here are a few of the things I was reading.
https://www.equitopiacenter.com/the-price-we-pay-for-spectacular-horses/#:~:text=Hypermobility%20results%20in%20the%20possibility,is%20a%20downside%20to%20this.&text=All%20the%20joints%20in%20the%20body%20of%20the%20horse%20are,joints%20and%20the%20entire%20spine.
Ok I see here blog posts that seem to be suggesting that there is a pathological “hypermobility” separate from DSLD proper. I don’t know whether or not that reflects the best current scientific knowledge on the topic. It might be worth asking on the COTH Sporthorse Breeding channel.
Is hypermobility a potential symptom of DSLD?
Or is there a hypermobility without DSLD that also leads to tissue damage?
Can you have extravagant movement and no injury? How much of movement is conformation and how much is loose ligaments? Are saddlebreds with huge movement prone to damage?
I don’t know what the current best knowledge is. Blog posts are often not fully informed.
From what I can tell by googling, there has been little to no scientific investigation into the questions you ask. That is one of the reasons I posted here, to see if anyone has any info they could share.
They are great questions that I would love to find out answers to if they are out there. FWIW, my DSLD mare would probably be considered hypermobile. She was as agile as a cat, elastic, and bendable.
Great question about Saddlebreds.
Many many winning ASBs have fetlocks parallel to ground on
faster gaits.
Many are also. retired from the
show ring by 10 yrs. old.
One of the blogs above claims that hypermobile horses have a dip in front of their withers and behind their withers. I would guess lordosis falls into that category. The question is, is the info in the blog accurate??
FWIW, the pictures I have been looking at, most sport horses have a dip in front of the wither. ID are about the only breed that doesn’t seem to from the pics I have seen.
Science:
Connective tissue disorders in domestic animals - PubMed (nih.gov)
Yes, it talks mostly about skin, but there is evidence that connective tissue disorders also affect horses, cats, dogs and cattle. In horses it can affect tendons.
Yes, hypermobility != DSLD, but the DSLD horse COULD be hypermobile, but so many who present with ESPA symptoms later in life were never hypermobile.
Hypermobility has been tossed out as an indication of a FFS carrier, but to my knowledge there’s never been any real correlation defined, but it’s been a while since I looked into that.
Yes, because not all big movement is anything but big movement 
Most movement is conformation. It can be enhanced with training. And it’s more than just ligaments, it’s bone length and muscle elasticity too.
that’s a difficult question given how many of them are ridden upside down and ridden front to back. There are certainly ASBs who are purpose-bred for the Dressage ring, not the saddleseat ring, who have long, sound lives
but also, look at the length and natural slope of those pasterns, and ask if they are (terribly) trimmed and shod for the purpose of exaggerating their natural movement.
Not all lordosis has a dip in front of the withers though. And lots of dip horses don’t have lordosis. A dip in front of the withers is pretty common in TBs. What is the dip behind the withers?
Excellent question, and one that I was wondering about. She also states something about the hind leg being over extended behind, with no flexion. Not sure about that either.
I don’t think you can really tell if a horse is “hypermobile” just by looking at it. I’m much more interested in correct and fluid gaits. You can take videos of each gait and slow them down to evaluate soundness and correctness of the gaits. Have your vet and a knowledgeable friend take a look at them.
Buy the canter and the best leg conformation you can. You can develop the trot and if you buy a huge walk you will have difficulty collecting the horse and the walk may trend toward lateral. Tension is exacerbated in the walk.
Soft pasterns are a no from me, especially in the hind legs. Pay for a good neuro exam during the PPE. Find out as much as you can about the dam and sire. That’s really all you can do.
You can school a horse with big movement to have an “impure” trot where the front legs fly around more than the hind legs. You see this with saddleseat horses and a number of dressage horses. It doesn’t mean that’s the natural movement or pathological although it can break a horse down over time.
Whether the horse has a lot of hock articulation depends on conformation, and soundness. Post legged horses have less articulation and so do arthritic horses. Nothing to do with DSLD.
The blogs cited seem to me to be conflating a number of things and I wouldn’t take them as a strong guide.
Also, all horses fetlocks are parallel to the ground at really fast gaits. You see this even on race horses.
When Dr Kent Allen evaluated my young horse who ended up having DSLD, his methodology for evaluating pastern drop was to have the horse walked in small figure eights and watch from the “bottom” of the eight. That was enough to tell him that my horse wasn’t going to come sound, whether it was DSLD or “just” soft pasterns. (I didn’t give up quite yet, but he was correct in the end.) That horse was sooooo elastic and easy to sit because his back was so soft.
In sales videos I look at the sink in the hind pasterns at the walk. At higher speeds or landing from jumps there will always be a lot of flexion. I feel like I know it when I see it and if I even think I see it, I pass. I realize that’s not very helpful to you though. This is the only video I have on my phone and he’s only 1.5 years old but I think you can see some warning signs.
IMG_5148
Re: age, a different vet told me you can’t rule out soft pasterns until they’re about 3 or 4. Sometimes you can see it before that, but even if you can’t see it they may still develop it. (This was regarding non-DSLD cases, which of course can develop much later.)
Thank you for the info it is helpful.
I am very sorry about your horse. Thank you for sharing, I can easily see it in him. I am looking at mostly horses under 4 so I may have to rely on the parents more I guess.
i wonder… How much does working in or being turned-out in deep sand affect their pasterns?
Deep Sand = Potential Problems.
My late ASB blew hind suspensory branches on left and right hinds, within 3 weeks of
going in a new turnout with deep sand. Course, the nightly fireworks and turnout all alone didn’t help.
This is why Dressage people are so ANAL about depth of footing in arenas…
Yes - I remember friends that redid their arena. They were trying to follow Underfoot but dumped in too much sand. Then they had a clinic and two, if not three of their horses blew out hind suspensories and were never sound again. So deep sand is a no no.
