Questions re: QH/Paint breeders, AQHA, and worth of horses

[JumperFyre]

Ok so I’m usually on the sport horse breeding board, but I have questions for this group. I’ve become a supporter of auction/slaughter rescue organizations in the last 6 months and I must admit I was a bit surprised. About 1/3 of horses are TB and the rest are a mix of PMU, mustang, muts, QH and paints. Now the QH is the largest breed in the USA I understand but why doesn’t the AQHA put limits on QH breeding? Why don’t they make QH go through approval systems like the KWPN? For those of you not familiar with the KWPN; foals, breeding stock (mares and stallions) need to go through inspections in which if the breeding stock isn’t approved, other KWPN breeders won’t breed to them. They get rated and approved at inspection. Sometimes if they don’t meet the criteria they don’t get papers. Btw I did email the AQHA and I’m awaiting a response.

Also, in regard to breeding QH/Paint horses; how can any of those breeders make money selling horses for only a couple thousand dollars or less? I know that board or hay rates fluctuate by state or region but I can’t fathom how they make money on cheap stock breeding.

PS (I hate the TB racing industry & PMU industry too but that topic is for a different board)

[Bluey]

Once you learn more of what all those issues are, you may also “hate” those auction/slaughter rescue organizations you say you support, as those tend to be very controversial.
Just read thru some of the threads about them and all the shenanigans they pull on the gullible supporters, some to be found in the Off Topic forum.

Now, the AQHA started in the 1940’s by inspecting any horse submitted for registration and kept inspecting any and all for many years.
Their inspectors would drive to many ranches and pick thru them what was to type and give them a number and registration papers and record as much as was known of the background of each.

As years passed and more and more generations down the line were being inspected, from already inspected parents and grandparents, it became obvious that they were breeding to type anyway and the numbers became so large, plus their attorneys were telling them that some day they would be questioned as how could they, with a horse with several generations of registered forebears, now decide if any one offspring was eligible for registration or not.

Eventually, common sense indicated that, in their situation, practically all inspected horses were passing, it was not worth keeping that up.
Inspections are still done today in cases where there are questions, but those are rare, any other offspring of registered parents will get registration papers, according to certain rules of registration, but those don’t require inspection any more.

Hope that answered how the AQHA registers and why.

[JumperFyre]

3rd paragraph down:
http://shedrowconfessions.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/aqha-you-are-a-big-part-of-the-problem/

If they support slaughter that explains why they won’t limit breeding…

[Bluey]

Here, if you wade thru this thread, you may find more of what I am talking about, where those “save from slaughter, the truck is coming” semi-fake “rescues” are being finally questioned:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?401656-Feds-just-raided-AC4H

You want to really help horses, go help a local rescue that is tied in with animal control, as Bluebonnet in TX is and such others are.

Any time a “rescue” is playing the slaughter card, well, things may not be quite as they seem.

[NoSuchPerson]

JumperFrye, I had a several paragraph reply typed out and then deleted it because it seems to me that you’ve already got your mind made up and aren’t really interested in doing anything other than throwing stones.

Soooo, never mind, I guess.

[VaqueroToro]

I think the only time a horse has to “perform” and exemplify breed standards is if its a TB or Appendix trying to get into the books as a AQHA stud or broodie. That’s usually done via winning things and earning ROMs.

Would inspections reduce the numbers? Maybe, maybe not. There might pop up other “alternative” associations that would accept all comers for their books even if they didn’t pass QH inspections (like pinto or “krazy kolor” books).

Do I think some portions of Quarter Horses as a breed are way, way too niche and serve only a very, very limited purpose? Yep – halter horses. Do I think that majority of the breed is pretty darn useful for a wide variety of purposes, rider skill level, and just in general are ammy friendly? Yep.

Does the AQHA take an anti-slaughter stance? Nope. Do any other breed registries? What’s the percentage that do take that stance in comparison to the ones that don’t?

I’m also with Bluey – operations that claim to be slaughter rescue but don’t work directly with ASPCA or similar organizations need to be scrutinized closely. Some are legit, others simply pull at heartstrings to get more cash often at the detriment of the horses.

[JumperFyre]

The auction/slaughter rescues I support go to all the normal well known auctions in my area and post pictures of the horses to get support to save them. Most sell for $25 or so.

[Bluey]

Many horse associations and associates like the AVMA and such others are on record as not being directly for or against slaughter itself, as not something they want to determine.

The AQHA polled it’s members and it came back inconclusive, many for under some conditions, others against with caveats also, no clear for or against numbers in a statistically significant way, so they decided not to weight in on either side, for now.

What those and 200+ more associations are definitely against is any of those misguided, animal rights extremist pushed bills, like the infamous 2007 “BAN horse slaughter” bill.
If that HSUS driven bill would have passed, it would have made so much we do with horses hard to impossible, which probably was the hidden aim of that bill.

Those topics are very complicated, not so easy to cover in a few words.

Do learn more before being so set against or for anything, because there are more sides to all we do than what some may want others to believe.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7033410]
The auction/slaughter rescues I support go to all the normal well known auctions in my area and post pictures of the horses to get support to save them. Most sell for $25 or so.[/QUOTE]

Well, right now, it seems that some senator is saying he got a bill to ban slaughter passed along with the latest farm bill, so the “excuse” to “save from slaughter”, that is at best a way to play musical chairs with horses, as another will then go on that truck, will be moot question.

Mind you, I grew up “saving horses from slaughter”, as most of the horses our riding school bought came directly from the slaughter plant and it was up to us to get them trained/re-trained, or back they would go.
Needles to say, we tried very hard and were successful with all but one of several dozens while I was the test pilot there, a mare with a badly injured back and still mourn her.

Telling you that story so you know that yes, most of us on COTH, posting here, do know what we are talking about, first hand.

[JumperFyre]

Horses go to Canada and Mexico slaughter houses even if USA slaughter is banned. Just because we don’t “see” it in the USA doesn’t mean our USA bred horses don’t end up in Europe markets/dinner plates.

I’m interested to see what the AQHA replies…

[OneGrayPony]

sigh

The horses that are listed as quarter horses on slaughter papers are not necessarily bred by breeders that actually breed registered quarter horses. Some may be, yes, from larger breeders that range breed, but those tend to end up as ranch horses, not your typical halter bred, western pleasure, racing or HUS horse. Those are bred for and sought after highly.

The KWPN horse has a very limited use - he’s either a dressage horse or a jumper - that’s what that “type” is. Yes, there are hunters in the KWPN horse-world but the breed standard does not distinguish between those.

Because there are so many “types”, you almost have sub-breeds within the QH breed.

Also note: at some point if the warmblood becomes more popular, I expect to see more warmbloods-of-unknown-origin become “backyard bred”. Right now, only the price point keeps them from doing so.

That being said, I don’t think that inspections are a bad idea, but typically those that breed quarter horses for the purpose of show are looking for a particular type and are not just breeding indiscriminately.

[OneGrayPony]

Horses go to Canada and Mexico slaughter houses even if USA slaughter is banned. Just because we don’t “see” it in the USA doesn’t mean our USA bred horses don’t end up in Europe markets/dinner plates.

I’m interested to see what the AQHA replies…

So…is this another slaughter thread? You’re not really curious about quarter horses?

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7033486]
Horses go to Canada and Mexico slaughter houses even if USA slaughter is banned. Just because we don’t “see” it in the USA doesn’t mean our USA bred horses don’t end up in Europe markets/dinner plates.

I’m interested to see what the AQHA replies…[/QUOTE]

If you have questions for them, call them: 806-376-4811.

(Remember, folks, school is out, be kind.:yes:)

[OneGrayPony]

If you have questions for them, call them: 806-376-4811.

Be prepared though, they have been very busy because their computer system went down and they have been inundated with registrations. I’m sure there’s someone that you can talk to, though. They’ve all been incredibly helpful and pleasant whenever I need something.

[JumperFyre]

[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7033495]
So…is this another slaughter thread? You’re not really curious about quarter horses?[/QUOTE]

No infact my whole thread is about QH breeding and the AQHA. I mentioned that I support rescue groups that save slaughter bound QHs and I was bombarded with “oh the rescue group could be fake”, or “slaughter in the USA is banned so be careful”. So yes I had to explain that just because slaughter may be temporarily closed in the USA, they are and HAVE been shipping horses to slaughter in Mexico and Canada this whole time!!!

[OneGrayPony]

What rescue groups do you support that save slaughter bound quarter horses? (Not flaming, curious, because I don’t know of any that specialize in quarter horses)

[JumperFyre]

[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7033533]
What rescue groups do you support that save slaughter bound quarter horses? (Not flaming, curious, because I don’t know of any that specialize in quarter horses)[/QUOTE]

They don’t specialize in saving QH’s, they save all and any kinds they can get sponsors for.

[OneGrayPony]

Ok - I’m wondering because I don’t know of any that have a lot of Quarter Horses! I’d love to support them if they exist, since I already support several thoroughbred organizations.

[JumperFyre]

I pm’d you GrayPony

[OneGrayPony]

Thanks!