Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can’t see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc. For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can’t find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.
I think your world is very small. The economics of the situation are quite different out west and in places where horses are actually used as part of a cattle management system or for another type of actual job that generates income.
You also have to compare well bred to well bred. Try to look up the cost of a good HUS horse or WP horse.
I can buy a Trakhener here locally for $2k (several large breeders), a well bred yearling for the performance world (QH) is going to be ~$10k or more.
And as BayRoan mentions, other horses are bred as secondary to a cattle operation etc.
Just for comparison purposes, I think a lot of people who are breeding warmbloods with the expectations of selling them for five figures are delusional. I just have to look on Craigslist or even Dreamhorse. You may so those aren’t the great breeders. I think that might be my point.
[QUOTE=BayRoan;7033879]
I think your world is very small. The economics of the situation are quite different out west and in places where horses are actually used as part of a cattle management system or for another type of actual job that generates income.[/QUOTE]
This. If ranches don’t breed and raise their own horse stock for use in their operations, they buy from the sell off from those who do. And honestly, a good ranch-broke gelding who has had a job can go for some pretty nice money.
I’m kinda-sorta likely to be in the market this fall for a kid-and-grandma horse so I’ve been sporadically browsing the horse-for-sale web sites. Just looked on Dreamhorse and something jumped out at me because I was reading this thread just a little while ago. On the first page of search results I found:
10 QHs, 7 of which were priced above $10,000, the cheapest was an aged broodmare for $2750 and the most expensive were the 3 listed at $15,000.
There was also one that was already sold that was listed at $18,000.
The cheapest warmblood was $4,200, the most expensive was $35,000.
The most expensive horse on the page was a $40,000 Thoroughbred event horse.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7033852]
For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can’t find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.[/QUOTE]
You are comparing high-quality warmblood prices to low-quality Arab/Paint/QH/Whatever prices. Well bred, well-built stallions from all of the breeds you have listed fetch well over the $7,500, specifically those that have achieved success in the breed show rings. Like Varian Arabians, where practically all their potential show stock is over $8,000. There are occasionally family horses for $5,000 or less.
Also, breeders charge what the buyer will pay. Period. Warmbloods still have an air of exotic newness that people like in most parts of the US. For a nice performance horse, people pay more. For a horse with very nice performance lines that looks fancy and moves fancy, people pay more. No matter the breed. There are still warmbloods that end up on the low end - $2,000. There are Quarter Horses that sell for over $50,000. And ANY breed can and will end up without papers in the kill pen for $50. You probably see more QH type horses because of the sheer volume.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7033331]
If they support slaughter that explains why they won’t limit breeding…[/QUOTE]
That’s a pretty big leap…
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7033852]
Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can’t see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc. For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can’t find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.[/QUOTE]
Some of the highest stud fees for performing stallions are in the QH world. When I started breeding WBs, I was actually quite shocked at the reasonable fees for top producing stallions, both in Europe and in the U.S.
Top QH prospects out of top performing parents can bring well in excess of 6 figures. World champion open and amy horses can bring prices rivaling a top hunter on today’s market. Just like in the WB world, a good AQHA stallion prospect will bring big bucks. You’re looking in the wrong place.
Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn’t need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars??? I’ve paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!
I just don’t understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.
Btw I’m not saying there aren’t high quality horses in every breed, that’s obvious. I’m picking on the low grade horses at the moment.
No, you are just being obnoxious. Emailing strangers to tell them to geld their horses? Wow. All that money you spend on WBs doesn’t buy manners, apparently.
If you want the horse gelded, buy it yourself and do as you like.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034209]
Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn’t need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars??? I’ve paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!
I just don’t understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.
Btw I’m not saying there aren’t high quality horses in every breed, that’s obvious. I’m picking on the low grade horses at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to say, I think you are trolling, because that is one of the most absurd posts I have read here.
I doubt that you ever bought any semen for any amount from anywhere, or indeed contacted anyone, other than in your imagination.
There are forums where you can play in an imaginary horse world, owning your farm and being king too, or queen, whatever suits anyone.
COTH is not one of those places, if you have not noticed yet.
Quit feeding the troll, unless you are out for some entertainment value.:lol:
OK, I’ll bite. I live in an area where it’s possible if you have land to keep a horse for basically $600 a year. Less if you do your own trimming. A lot of people don’t have $10,000 to spend on a horse, but they’ll pay $800 - $5000. Stud fee $250, sell as weanling for $400 = profit. Buy for $400, start it at 2 yourself, sell for $2500 = profit. No big outlay, so who cares if the profit margin isn’t huge. Their owners don’t care about great conformation. They care about being halfway safe on trail on weekends. They don’t look on horses as an investment, but as something they get for their personal use. If a few stud fees a year or selling a weanling helps pay the feed bill then they’re ahead.
Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn’t need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars??? I’ve paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!
I just don’t understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.
Btw I’m not saying there aren’t high quality horses in every breed, that’s obvious. I’m picking on the low grade horses at the moment.
Well bless your heart.
I guarantee you did not actually contact the AQHA, and I’m not sure how you think you actually contacted a judge.
I’m also wondering what $ and semen have to do with each other. A stallion I really loved in a warmblood breed was free to select mares and under $500 normally, because he’d sustained a freak injury and could not be inspected. I’m sure I should have flamed them and told them to geld him. Money does not equal great conformation nor temperament (plus, I’m wondering if it was actually a stud fee for $2500 as many times that wording is not clear).
Money does buy you a lot of things, but apparently not class.
BTW, “low grade horses” and quarter horses are not remotely synonymous.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7033852]
Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can’t see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc. For instance, Arabian, QH, Paint and TB (or crosses) stallions sell for well under $7500. You can’t find any warmblood stallions for sale under that amount. No one will breed to anything worth that amount either.[/QUOTE]
Really?
You know all about the breeding situation in all those registries?
I think not.
You are also completely missing the point that just because they are stallions doesn’t mean they are breeding. Many QH stallions never breed. They are left stallions for performance reasons. There is a school of thought that believes a stallion will show better than a gelding. They spend there careers showing and may never breed if they don’t place well enough.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034209]
Well some QH judge emailed me and attacked me saying that his $2500 stallion that he has for sale doesn’t need to be gelded! How comical. Why would anyone breed to a stallion only worth a few thousand dollars??? I’ve paid more than $2500 in semen from stallions worth in the 7 digits. Just shows their level of knowledge and yet they are allowed to judge!
I just don’t understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.
Btw I’m not saying there aren’t high quality horses in every breed, that’s obvious. I’m picking on the low grade horses at the moment.[/QUOTE]
2 other points:
-
TBs, QHs ad many others can be bought cheap many times because they have failed at what they were originally bred for (too slow to race, won’t go slow enough for Western Pleasure etc.), but they are still capable of being a very good horse in another discipline.
-
WBs are bred in high numbers in Europe. They are the primary type of horse there and do you know what happens to the culls in Europe? They go to slaughter. The ones that get imported here are some of the best, like the QHs that are exported to Europe.
Christa
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034209]
I just don’t understand why people breed low grade horses at all when they know that the market is horrible and they risk sending horses to auctions/kill buyers.[/QUOTE]
Well, if you can figure out how to change that, you will win a Nobel Prize. Don’t forget to include the puppy mill breeders in your solution.
This issue really isn’t about AQHA, or quarter horses, the Jockey Club or the KWPN, or slaughter. It’s just the age-old issue of people breeding without a purpose or a market, or the money to keep what doesn’t sell, and what happens to the animals after that.
You can beat your head against a brick wall all day long, but it probably won’t do any good. And trying to “educate” people in this manner is likely to fail, even if the people actually agree with you.
[QUOTE=Christa P;7034497]
2 other points:
WBs are bred in high numbers in Europe. They are the primary type of horse there and do you know what happens to the culls in Europe? They go to slaughter. The ones that get imported here are some of the best, like the QHs that are exported to Europe.
Christa[/QUOTE]
Something our little friend has conveniently overlooked.
I think we have a breed snob here. Personally I don’t CARE what breed it is, whether or not it has papers, blah blah… I look for a horse that a suitable for the job I ask.
And please keep your touchy feely “racing is cruel” to yourself, I’m an assistant trainer with actual experience on the track. Don’t open that can of worms.
Within the last couple of years I have noticed quite a few “breeders” that think their warmblood, part warmblood, or a horse they intend to breed to a warmblood, is automatically better than everyone else’s nags. I am not a breeder, nor do I pretend to be one just because I have bred the occasional mare for a foal for my own use. I am of the group that actually uses the horses. We appreciate a good piece of horseflesh, not a horse of a certain “letter” bloodline.
Inspections are for breeders, the good breeders. They serve their purpose in the warmblood world, where everybody across the globe agrees on a general standard. Warmbloods are generally used for true English work. Other breeds however, are used for a wide variety of things. From true western work (cattle ranches, pony horses at the track, etc.) to reining, to cutting, to western pleasure, to fake enlish, to real english, halter, etc. You can NOT put a halter horse through the same inspection standards as a ranch horse.
Please keep in mind that the ads you see online can be very misleading, as well as their prices. You can’t average the prices of GOOD horses by what you see online. I never buy or sell online. All of my deals are made with people I am familiar with, in person. When you get around enough you know where to find plenty of quality animals. Not all, but quite a few of the people that sell online are still rather naive. Often times the horses sold online have mental glitch and the seller hopes that the horse can be taken of his hands sight unseen.
