Why would anyone think that a registry has the power to reduce the number of horses bred? People will still breed and either have unregistered stock or join one of the many “Warmblood” registries. You may have to have an inspection to breed your “warmblood” but in some of the registries, as long as you pay the fee and the horse has four legs, it will pass!
[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7034429]
Well bless your heart.
I guarantee you did not actually contact the AQHA, and I’m not sure how you think you actually contacted a judge.
I’m also wondering what $ and semen have to do with each other. A stallion I really loved in a warmblood breed was free to select mares and under $500 normally, because he’d sustained a freak injury and could not be inspected. I’m sure I should have flamed them and told them to geld him. Money does not equal great conformation nor temperament (plus, I’m wondering if it was actually a stud fee for $2500 as many times that wording is not clear).
Money does buy you a lot of things, but apparently not class.
BTW, “low grade horses” and quarter horses are not remotely synonymous.[/QUOTE]
Well yes I did email the AQHA and I haven’t heard back yet, hopefully by Monday. Don’t worry I’ll post their reply (if I get one).
I’m not a troll btw and not making stuff up. If I am than why would I share my concern about people breeding stallions only worth 2500 or less? Some horses haven’t been bred to and some have. It’s that simple. And who will stop the next owner from not breeding???
I sat down once and figured out what it costs me to breed and raise a foal until it was 3 (the soonest I’ll start one under saddle). Even in SoCal, where I’m paying $15-20 for hay, paying for manure to be hauled away, paying a premium for all grain, shavings, vet care - paying out the nose for everything basically - my numbers were not anything like what OP thinks they should be.
Assuming a stud fee under 1K, even here I could sell a 3yo for 5K and make a profit. Very slim profit, but a profit. And of course if I sold one sooner the amount needed to break even or make $$$ lowers.
Now imagine I lived somewhere with pasture, hay under $10/bale, and gelding costs under $300. If I had room to own my own stallion. I could sell foals for a LOT less and still make some money.
Ok and no one has touched the subject about how they make money on inexpensive stock. Being in the warmblood world, I can’t see making money on anything less than $12k for a foal, $15k for a yearling, etc.
[QUOTE=Christa P;7034497]
2 other points:
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TBs, QHs ad many others can be bought cheap many times because they have failed at what they were originally bred for (too slow to race, won’t go slow enough for Western Pleasure etc.), but they are still capable of being a very good horse in another discipline.
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WBs are bred in high numbers in Europe. They are the primary type of horse there and do you know what happens to the culls in Europe? They go to slaughter. The ones that get imported here are some of the best, like the QHs that are exported to Europe.
Christa[/QUOTE]
Yes everyone knows this. Europe is the warmblood breeding Kings. They’ve been going it longer and usually always win at Show Jumping and Dressage. They also have access to all the top Olympic stallions that we don’t. We have to buy frozen semen.
Hay in Southern California where I am is $23-27 for a 100lb bale (I feed Timothy/orchard). Regular board with alfalfa hay starts at $275 and up. Board for 17 months at $275 to get a foal & wean is a basic $4675 and it’s more to feed good Timothy hay and more for a stall.
[QUOTE=gaitedincali;7034616]
I sat down once and figured out what it costs me to breed and raise a foal until it was 3 (the soonest I’ll start one under saddle). Even in SoCal, where I’m paying $15-20 for hay, paying for manure to be hauled away, paying a premium for all grain, shavings, vet care - paying out the nose for everything basically - my numbers were not anything like what OP thinks they should be.
Assuming a stud fee under 1K, even here I could sell a 3yo for 5K and make a profit. Very slim profit, but a profit. And of course if I sold one sooner the amount needed to break even or make $$$ lowers.
Now imagine I lived somewhere with pasture, hay under $10/bale, and gelding costs under $300. If I had room to own my own stallion. I could sell foals for a LOT less and still make some money.[/QUOTE]
Yeah still not sure how you got those numbers lol!
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034630]
Yeah still not sure how you got those numbers lol![/QUOTE]
It’s called “addition”. 
Not having board costs helps.
General rule of thumb is that $100 of board a month goes to the cleaning crew. So if you don’t make back at least $1700 from a foal sale, you are scooping poop for free. By using board as a basis than you can see what you’d really be making by doing the organizing only and of course investing in the mare and foal.
JumperFyre, you live in a very small world. Most breeders own or lease farms. They don’t board. Yes, they have maintenance costs and pay help, but small breeders often do all the labor themselves. Eye appeal and fancy set ups do not produce great horses, so cut out the statue at the gate, the expensive barns and the wine parties to promote your stock. Safe fencing, a shed and a good veterinarian and even I can raise a top quality horse assuming I have the right mare bred to the right stallion. Can I sell it for $100,000 without spending some serious money - no. Can I make a profit? Certainly.
No I understand some areas pay next to nothing for land and board, therefore it’s possible to make money on low priced stock. Doesn’t mean that they should be breeding though.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034618]
Yes everyone knows this. Europe is the warmblood breeding Kings. They’ve been going it longer and usually always win at Show Jumping and Dressage. They also have access to all the top Olympic stallions that we don’t. We have to buy frozen semen.[/QUOTE]
We DO have access to all the top Olympic stallions. You just said we could get semen, that is access. Frozen semen is not THAT big of an undertaking anymore if you have the right vet.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034680]
No I understand some areas pay next to nothing for land and board, therefore it’s possible to make money on low priced stock. Doesn’t mean that they should be breeding though. :)[/QUOTE]
Everyone knows this already. But it doesn’t make you the “breeding police”.
Are there people out there breeding horses that shouldn’t? Yes. Are there a lot of horses that no one wants and probably shouldn’t have been bred. Yes. Are there well-bred horses out there that no one wants, also? Yes.
I’m still not understanding the point of your argument. How is this the fault of the AQHA or other registries?
[QUOTE=Angelico;7034695]
We DO have access to all the top Olympic stallions. You just said we could get semen, that is access. Frozen semen is not THAT big of an undertaking anymore if you have the right vet.[/QUOTE]
Yes I know but we don’t have access to some that are ONLY available in Europe, ie: Casall la Silla, Cassini I, Quidam de Revel and the list goes on. I’m very familiar with using frozen, that’s how I got my foal this year. I didn’t make up spending a ton of money on semen, just FYI.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034717]
Yes I know but we don’t have access to some that are ONLY available in Europe, ie: Casall la Silla, Cassini I, Quidam de Revel and the list goes on. I’m very familiar with using frozen, that’s how I got my foal this year. I didn’t make up spending a ton of money on semen, just FYI.[/QUOTE]
All that drama just to brag about a foal?:lol:
Most here understand how nice it is to have a foal.:yes:
We don’t necessarily think we then need to put every other out there down.
Have fun with your foal, hopefully it will be all you hoped it may be.
[QUOTE=S1969;7034698]
I’m still not understanding the point of your argument. How is this the fault of the AQHA or other registries?[/QUOTE]
I’m saying registries can limit breeding or start inspecting horses before handing out papers. They could also gain more income by limiting breeding if they made stallions go through inspections before being approved for breeding. Does anyone know off the top of their head the cost to register a foal with AQHA or APHA?
Hay in Southern California where I am is $23-27 for a 100lb bale (I feed Timothy/orchard). Regular board with alfalfa hay starts at $275 and up. Board for 17 months at $275 to get a foal & wean is a basic $4675 and it’s more to feed good Timothy hay and more for a stall.
A foaling stall when the mare foals is a good idea.
But please don’t keep the foal in a stall all its life after you wean it.
There’s a reason most good breeders/producers raise them in groups. It is less expensive that way, but that’s not the most important consideration. A horse really needs to know how to live in a herd for its long term well being.
A baby will learn a lot from mama, but out in the ‘real world’ herd, the other herd members are not as forgiving as mama is. Babies need to learn how to make friends, how to avoid conflict, how to have horse manners in general.
Horses reared in isolation post weaning can end up having no turnout options in later life, because they are terrified of other horses or inappropriately aggressive to other horses.
I'm saying registries can limit breeding or start inspecting horses before handing out papers. They could also gain more income by limiting breeding if they made stallions go through inspections before being approved for breeding. Does anyone know off the top of their head the cost to register a foal with AQHA or APHA?
Whoa…uh, maybe when you go to college you should take some courses in economics. And marketing.
If you limit breeding, you have to make up for your income somewhere else. It costs money to inspect stallions. I can’t see how you could possibly make up for the income lost by limiting registrations/breeding by inspecting stallions.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034743]
I’m saying registries can limit breeding or start inspecting horses before handing out papers. They could also gain more income by limiting breeding if they made stallions go through inspections before being approved for breeding. Does anyone know off the top of their head the cost to register a foal with AQHA or APHA?[/QUOTE]
In theory, sure they could do that. But the registration is only important to some people. Many people really don’t care, and would just as soon buy a horse that is not registered, so long as it can do the job. There certainly is a market for registered AQHA horses, for AQHA specific competition, but they probably don’t represent the majority of people riding QHs.
The inspection process is expensive, and if it’s not valued by the people that own the horses, they certainly won’t bother paying extra for the “registered” horse. There are a lot of people out there who simply like to trail ride, dabble in local events and have fun. Those people are not going to pay for a registered QH. They’ll just buy one that is unregistered.
I have a registered APHA mare. She has not had her registration updated by either of her last two owners. I don’t care if she’s registered; nothing I would ever do with her would ever require me proving her registration, so I didn’t bother to update it. Nor did it factor into me buying her or the price.
ETA: this argument is also made about the AKC. But if you required people to get their dogs “inspected” before they could breed a registered litter, it would drive breeders away from registering at all. If they can’t make up the cost of the registration by selling the puppies for a higher price, it won’t do anything except encourage un-registered breeding.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034680]
No I understand some areas pay next to nothing for land and board, therefore it’s possible to make money on low priced stock. Doesn’t mean that they should be breeding though. :)[/QUOTE]
Also doesn’t mean that you should be passing judgement on the quality of stock that they produce, simply because you aren’t capable of doing that.
Price is only the amount of money that someone is willing to pay for an animal, not necessarily a reflection of its quality.
I wouldn’t pay $1500 for the nicest “warmblood” out there, except to turn around and flip it.
The type doesn’t float my boat.
Doesn’t mean I don’t consider some of them to be fine stock.
[QUOTE=JumperFyre;7034743]
I’m saying registries can limit breeding or start inspecting horses before handing out papers. They could also gain more income by limiting breeding if they made stallions go through inspections before being approved for breeding. Does anyone know off the top of their head the cost to register a foal with AQHA or APHA?[/QUOTE]
You want to start telling a breed registry how to operate, then become a member, get to know about the breed and the breeders, and lobby for your position.
There is more than one way to run a registry, and people aren’t likely to stop short, aghasted at the very idea that you, with all your vast years of breeding experience, don’t like the way they’ve been doing things, and decide to change their registration procedures to please you.
