Overlay and underlay are somewhat subjective. An underlay is a horse who’s odds are lower than the bettor believes are his real chances of winning. An overlay is one who’s odds are higher than his real chance of winning. Bettors are looking for overlays!
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Overlay and underlay are somewhat subjective. An underlay is a horse who’s odds are lower than the bettor believes are his real chances of winning. An overlay is one who’s odds are higher than his real chance of winning. Bettors are looking for overlays![/QUOTE]
ok so a horse without a chance of winning and has odds at say 4-1 is the underlay while the overlay is the horse that will most probably win but has odds of say 8-1? I think I got it?
That’s pretty much it, but I wouldn’t use the words “without a chance” and “will most probably win”. Basically if you think a horse should be 6/1 or better and he’s trading at 8/1, then that’s an overlay. In doesn’t mean the horse will most probably win, and there could well be other legitimate favourites. In other words you’re shopping for a bargain. Also a horse can be odds-on and still be an overlay, likewise a longshot can be an underlay.
It makes more sense, and is easier to do, with fixed odds betting than with pari-mutuel as you know you’re getting value because you’re locked in.
Racing 101 thread at the top of the forum has all sorts of answers, but for now: in the horse’s description, black type, in capital letters indicates that the horse was a stakes winner. Black type in lower case letters, means the horse was stakes placed (2nd or 3rd) but never won a stakes race.
I’ve read this entire thread and learned ever so much-- thanks to all the people who took so much time to explain things.
I still have a few questions:
- Why in horse breeding (and not just racing) is the sire so much more important than the dam?
2.Where does all the money come from in the big stakes? Like a million dollars in Delaware last weekend? And who gets that money?
- When horses’ names seem to be spelled wrong, is it because they weren’t allowed proper spelling, or don’t owners check how it’s spelled?
4.Are there fewer female jockeys now than a few years ago?
- Why in horse breeding (and not just racing) is the sire so much more important than the dam?
Well the dam is still half the equation. Sires are “important” because whoever owns them controls quite an asset. But from trying to learn about racing, the dams and her lines are considered very important. If you look at a sales catalog page, not only are the dam’s winnings covered, but what her offspring did (and I think what her mother did too? would have to go look at one).
2.Where does all the money come from in the big stakes? Like a million dollars in Delaware last weekend? And who gets that money?
Betting income. And in states where there are “racinos,” tracks with slot machines and the like pull in more money to offer bigger purses.
- When horses’ names seem to be spelled wrong, is it because they weren’t allowed proper spelling, or don’t owners check how it’s spelled?
Sometimes it’s a mistake, sometimes it’s done on purpose as a play on words. Sometimes there’s another horse of similar name already registered so they alter it slightly to make it different.
dunno about the female jockeys. 
The sire isn’t more important in each individual mating.
They just leave a bigger legacy because they have more offspring and also they are worth more money because they can earn more in stud fees. So in that sense they are generally more valuable.
Stakes money can come from several different sources, i) the takeout in betting handle, ii) entry fees and iii) sponsors.
The split in prizemoney can vary, but is usually 1st=60%, 2nd=20%, 3rd=10%, 4th=6% with the rest being payed out either through 5th or further depending on how the track wants to do it.
Wrong spelling can often be deliberate, or not. Hard to say, do you have an specific example?
answers from the harness side
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we place far more emphasis on the dam than the sire. The maternal side is what carries inherent speed, and the sire early speed (age related in the offspring). We feel that without the inherent speed (ability to carry beyond a year or so) there isn’t a lot of point in breeding a mare - it IS done, sometimes you do luck out but rarely. Few sires are prepotent enough to put enough into a baby to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
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Stakes money comes from stakes payments, funding from assorted sources, and fees paid by the breeder to make a sire eligible for certain provincial and state stakes. There are also starting fees to be added to purses.
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Frequently. misspellings are creative in nature rather than lack of spelling ability. Sometimes it is used because a name you want is already there or cannot be used for some reason or another, so, different spelling will allow it to go through. There is also compressed spellings that allow use of a name of more than the allowable letters and spaces. Creative spelling example: Pistn Broke (yep, he is real, nearly bought him); other creative spellings include the plethora of heeza sheeza names. Spelling badly to get by the registry: Roliad…nope not kidding, the man really wanted to name the poor beast Rolaid. Compressed spelling is pretty self explanatory.
Thanks for your replies. I hadn’t thought of how the sire can throw a zillion babies to build reputation and income but the dam has only a yearly output if that.
The spelling errors I meant were (made up) like Memerable Dream, not like Mouther in Law.
and thanks sk_pacer, for perspective on harness racing.
I have what is probably a dumb question.
In the past the races for my OTTB’s have been recorded on their papers. My new, fresh from the track, mare supposedly has some races under her belt and has won a bit of money, but her papers don’t show any races. Is that normal/possible?
The papers only show wins. If she won races and they aren’t listed the papers are probably duplicates, that would be listed somewhere on the front of the papers.
Okay then! I didn’t even think about that :lol: I couldn’t find a record of her winning any races, but she does have some mentions online and I know she’s come close 
What does a jock’s agent do? (besides earn a percentage). How does the jockey get the ride exactly?
Is it considered okay to run a horse one week after it’s run a race?
Generally speaking, yes.
You won’t see a horse running back a week later at the highest levels much anymore, but it’s not uncommon in the (lower) claiming ranks.
Once a horse has reached racing fitness, that needs to be maintained by doing gallops at speed on a regular basis; that can be achieved through works or races. At the lower levels the horse generally needs to be earning his keep, so the trainers opt for putting the horse in a race, where the horse at least has a chance of picking up a check, rather than doing a timed work in the morning. At peak fitness, it is standard for claimers to race every 10 to 15 days, often only walking or going for a light jog on the days in between. Sometimes it just happens that the next race the horse is eligible to run in will come up in 7 days rather than ten.
Thanks for clearing that up for me, Barnfairy. I noticed Emmy Darling ran in a Grade 3 at Santa Anita today and had just raced last week.
Now could anyone explain to me what a jock’s agent does?
I’m a little surprised nobody’s answered this yet, but I think things have a tendency to get overlooked up here in sticky land.
Anyway, I found the following:
From an interview with jockey Jane Magrell:
FOTH: For those who don’t know would you tell people what a jockey agent does for you?
JM: An agent hustles a jockey for mounts, They cover the barn area and a lot of PR. They check you on your mounts and pick up more mounts at scratch time. Basically they handle all your business while you gallop and ride. But I haven’t had one in a while. Many of the agents help me but I do it all on my own. They make 25% of your income. So, that is a good chunk of change if you have a good week or a bad week.
And from the Tim Woolley Racing page:
How are jockeys engaged for the race?
Most jockeys will have an agent. It is the agent’s task to book the jockey’s mounts and deal with potential double-calls etc. Trainers do prefer to keep loyal to a few jockeys, some trainers simply try to book the best jockey available for a particular race. Thus there is a relationship (although sometimes tenuous) between the trainer and the jockeys that the trainer might engage for his / her horses. Sometimes the owner also has a particular preference, and they are able to influence the trainer. You may notice that a horse is often ridden by the same jockey for consecutive races.
Thanks, Barnfairy! I’d read news that Alex Solis had switched agents and I wondered about it.
Two horses from the Sunshine Millions events on Jan 24th returned a week later to run well. Dawn After dawn won an overnight stake in California and Finallymadeit who was off the board in the SM Classic almost pulled off an upset in the G1 Donn at Gulfstream.
In Dubai, a horse will run for the 5th time this year on Thursday. Afew weeks ago he was unplaced in the G3 Al Sindaga Sprint and then won the very next day in Abu Dhabi. He’s run since and is entered back on a week’s notice again. At the Racing Carnival many horses run several races close together, often 3 consecutive weeks or more.
Hi,
Thanks for all to share this information…
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Names
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3. When horses’ names seem to be spelled wrong, is it because they weren’t allowed proper spelling, or don’t owners check how it’s spelled? :)[/QUOTE]
Hi,
Thought I would give you a few more examples of how oddly spelled/punctuated names came to be:
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The Grade I winner ‘Flying Pidgeon’ was named by his owner…he was wandering around the grandstand wondering what to name the new baby and SPLATTT! A pigeon christened him and his Daily Racing Form. He messed up spelling pigeon and the rest is history.
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Our former foal ‘Whereforartthou’ got his name crunched because his barn nickname for his great beauty was Romeo…Where for art thou, my Romeo? We couldn’t fit all the letters unless we took out spaces. He won a Maiden Special Weight at Belmont. His second owner placed him with the TRF even though we had a contract to get him back. Sigh. Romeo, last heard, was very happy teaching prisoners how to groom horses. (Reminder to self: send another check to TRF).
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In the case of ‘Grade A. Fancy’ (by Malibu Moon) she was named for the color of Grade A Fancy maple syrup when she was born. Unfortunately, the JC wouldn’t use Grade A Fancy and insisted on printing like so: Grade a Fancy. They would not capitalize the ‘a.’ Sooo, by putting a period at the end of the ‘a’ it turned it into an ‘A.’ Anyway, she won a Maiden Special Weight 80-1 at Philly and I thought Keith the announcer was going to have a heart attack.
Her nickname is Xena. I did not race her until she was four years-old because she was too big (like 18.1 hands big). The ultimate problem with her name became the fact that unless you live in the North Country you don’t think of maple syrup when someone says grade a fancy - you think of eggs. Sigh again.
Just a few more examples for you.
Hallie I. McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC
