yes, LOL, SO sorry! yes, smoky cream. My brain was on black vs bay as the base. Yes, smoky black is black + 1 cream.
Foals change colors the first two years so much, you don’t know some times what you have.
Testing will let you know which genes you have, but the expression of those may still vary.
Some sorrel dilutes are lighter in winter coat, darker in the summer.
Some are similar shades all along.
Yeah, but this is a double dilute of some sort, unlikely cremello, likely perlino, possibly smoky cream. Not a chance it’s sorrel/chestnut.
If you are responding to me, I didn’t say he is any kind of sorrel, only that those sorrel dilutes some times are similar shade winter and summer, some times darker in the summers, once older than two.
We had and knew of a few of those.
His current color/shade of color may change yet.
Made for interesting conversations with breed inspectors.
I’ve never seen a cremello look appreciably different between Summer and Winter coats. The double dilutes really don’t change much at all. Maybe there are some out there, I just haven’t seen one in many years of seeing the various double dilutes.
The single dilutes do tend to change dramatically, whether palomino or buckskin, not so much smoky black. Much lighter (and often really dappled) in Winter, darker (and usually little to no dappling) in Summer.
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Yes, single dilutes is what I said, I think?
So much has changed since we know more.
Decades ago we had a buckskin mare we bred to a neighbor’s palomino stallion.
Our vet warned us, as they thought then, before anyone knew about the lethal white gene, that such matings at times gave you a white foal that died a few days after birth.
Sure enough, her foal was completely white and died.
Today we know it is the lethal white paint gene that causes that, not breeding a buckskin to a palomino, as our vet told us.
The dam was AQHA registered, but obviously had some paint in her.
Live and learn, at least we can test for that so no one has to go thru that heartache today.
I just want to say about the outing in this thread - I’m sad. Not because I liked PB or flash, but because you get this imaginary “persona” of someone who posts a lot. And PB was a strong persona. And… it was all a lie. What a stupid way to get your rocks off.
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You said “sorrel dilutes”, and cremello would fall into that 
But my apologies if that was just as a general example of something like a palomino can change shades a lot from foaling to birth, and Winter to Summer. I inferred that you were referring to the OP’s foal. He may get a little more, or less orange in his mane and tail, seasonally, or as he matures but mostly he’s going to look just like this. There are definitely perlinos who tend to look more like cremellos (manes/tails more diluted), and who tend to look more like smoky creams (less point dilution, or the smoky cream is more diluted than “normal”).
We sure have come a long way, thankfully! One day I hope those who still disbelieve the science, who still stand by the “old ways”, will wake up and do the right things in terms of things like LWO.
Talking about coming a long way, we had a grey stallion and a grey mare and her filly was … sorrel.
The AQHA sent an inspector, who said their computer had kicked that out as only grey foals were but rarely born to two grey parents.
He knew our horses and passed her as the right foal for that breeding and, yes, sorrel.
She also had a sorrel colt, never had a grey foal for us and was only bred to a grey stallion.
Today we know more, long ago, not so much.
Sure made for confusing color determinations.
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LWO refers to lethal white correct? Could you explain your last paragraph? I’m pretty ignorant on color genetics beyond two chestnuts create a chestnut. As an example I thought cremello and perlino were the same thing :o
There are still a lot of people out there who don’t test for lethal white. It’s not necessarily obvious who the carriers are, and when you breed two carriers together, you have a 25% chance of a foal without a complete intestinal tract. It’s a pretty gruesome way to die 
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Oh wow! I remember reading a thread here about lethal white. I clearly forgot what the acronym was! :yes:
That is horrible. Thank you for explaining.
Correct - lethal white overo.
There are people who think all white foals are LWO so automatically put them down.
There are people who think breeding nO x nO gives them a better chance of producing a foal with the coveted Frame pattern
There are people who still believe Tobiano x Tobiano can produce a LWO foal (borne out of the fact that LWO foals did result from 2 Tobis, but ignoring the fact that the obviously Tobis also carried Frame)
I’m sure there are some other examples but you get the idea
@JB thanks!
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Me too! I actually read it twice because I was sure I had read it wrong the first time. Apparently Hell HAS frozen over.
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I have more questions, is it normal for a horse to be under the weather in the days directly after receiving vaccines? He just received boosters saturday and yesterday he had a bit of a runny nose and just overall seemed lazy compared to his usual self. He rested his head on a friend of mines shoulder and snoozed there while I groomed him. It was cute! Dont get me wrong! But usually he would never stand still for me that long. Usually he stands well for 20 minutes and then he gets antsy and has the need to play.
Yes, normal for them to be funky after vaccines, but I’d be concerned bout that runny nose. Can you describe the discharge? Also… when in doubt, take his TPR. Temperature, Pulse & Respiration.
Are you sure he was resting his head or was he uncomfortable due to a possible localized reaction to the injection/s?
You should probably take the TPR and report to your vet what his behavior is like. Just to be safe.
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He would reach out for his shoulder when he stepped away. He does really love people. He’ll follow you anywhere and leans into you a lot when youre brushing him so it wasn’t weird for him to be seeking the attention, it was just weird that he had a lack of energy along with it.
It was clear runny nose. Im wondering if it might also be the weather. We just got a cold front. He also got the injections in his neck.
Right. But what was his temperature? Pulse rate? Respiration rate?
And if the vaccination site in his neck is sore or swollen, he may look for support holding up his head. Or be reluctant to move his neck in certain directions. TPR will start the unravel the mystery of wha’s going on.
Normal Temperature is about 99 - 100/ 101. Anything over 101.5 warrants a call to your vet and likely prompt medication.
Pulse should be 18 - 40 beats per minute
Respiration should be 8 - 12 breaths per minute.
