Raleigh results - FEI Y/H scores

[DownYonder]

Wow, the Y/H classes must have been brutal!

In Friday’s 5 y/o class, the scores ranged from 5.6799 to 7.5399. Only one ride earned over 7.5 (Debbie Hill on River Side Lady). In Friday’s 6 y/o class, scores ranged from 5.76 to 7.5199. Only the winning ride was over 7.5 (Caroline Roffman on Westpont). These classes were official qualifiers for the National Championships this fall in Kentucky.

In Saturday’s 5 y/o class, scores ranged from 6.1599 to 7.8600. Only two rides were over 7.5, with Joe Sandven on Ronatella S earning the top score. In the 6 y/o class, there were only three rides and scores ranged from 7.3200 to 8.100. Chris Hickey on Cabana Boy took top honors in this class. This class was a qualifier for today’s Y/H classes, which are part of the official selection trials for the World Championships in Verden.

I heard from a friend who watched the Friday classes that a lot of the 5 y/o’s were very tense and nervous. There was apparently some comment among spectators and riders that the atmosphere there is rather intimidating to young horses and quite a few never really relaxed. Hopefully they will be more used to things today and will turn in better rides.

[dresstar]

Yes, it is hard for the young horses. I find it amazing that only one horse has qualified for Verden in the states at this time. That is willy Arts horse, a six year old on the West coast. I think it is the first time since the program has been in place that only on horse has done this. I hope that Cabana Boy can do it. They need at least a 8.2 to make it to Verden. It is not looking like any 5 year old will be going to Verden at all at this point. To bad, There are a lot of nice ones this year!
dresstar

[dressagefriend]

Young Horse

Qualifying for the Selection Trails this year was different than last years requirements. If you did not go to Florida the opportunity to qualify is hard to find. In the Midwest Paxtons was the first opportunity to qualify for the Selection Trials being held at Lamplight. For some people Raleigh is just so far away. Hopefully next year they will let you get your qualifying scores again at the Selection Trials. This is such a great program for our gifted horses here in the U.S.

[tartanfarm]

final class is today and won’t be complete until after 2 pm so the Eastern Division will probably have a candidate. Ronnie or Berry (Riverside Lady) are bound to qualify.

[siegi_b]

Any news yet on how today went, who qualified, etc.?

[tartanfarm]

Joe on Ronnie came first in the 5yr old, Debbie on Riverside Lady came second. They tell me that no one , 5 or 6 yr old, qualified for Germany.:no:

[hsheffield]

raleigh

So neither Cabana Boy or Ronatella (6 & 5 yo winners)
qualified for Verden. Agree with above that horses were
tense on Friday. Some of the 5 yo wanted out of that
arena! Unfortunately the judge ( Lorraine Macdonald)
couldn’t tell the difference between a bad ride and a bad
rider. She chose to tell the riders they had done bad
job. For example she told one trainer/judge that her horse
would not move up because of her riding. She asked one
rider who had previously represented the USA in Verden
“have you ever ridden these young horse tests before?”

Entirely different story with Gribbons/Fore/Zang. LZ was
diplomatic in her comments but very honest. The scores
were right on IMHO though it was a shame that no one
qualified for Verden. Indoors might not be the best place
to test YH as many of them backed off and had a hard
time with focus. Verden is outside so there is no advantage
in subjecting these youngsters to an environment that
makes it hard for them to show themselves off.

[ToN_Farm]

@"hsheffield"

She chose to tell the riders they had done bad
job. For example she told one trainer/judge that her horse
would not move up because of her riding. She asked one
rider who had previously represented the USA in Verden
“have you ever ridden these young horse tests before?”

Wow! I’m all for blunt, but that’s ever too much for me.

[Sister_Margarita]

With judges making comments such as these over a PA, the USEF is shooting themselves in the foot if they have a desire to develop this program. What trainer wants to go through all it takes to get there then have themselves slammed for doing their best with an excited athletic 5 year old? The tests are hard enough, the arena is hard enough, but a judge telling someone their riding is poor over a public address system because a horse melts down in a very, very stimulating, unique environment shows that the one in need of better judgment is not the rider. If these judges can’t use a microphone in a respectful manner, they should pass it to someone who can.

I’ve done this program, saw its value, but walked the other way when I heard someone else get reemed in a similar way.

I guess nothing was learned in Lexington a couple of years ago. The talk at the next CDI among the riders was how the comments they heard would prevent them from ever participating. How unfortunate.

[Classical_DQ]

YH results

Were the YH tests in the indoor or the covered arena? Last year they were in the covered. That is scarey enough at Raleigh, but the indoor is very scarey!

[EqTrainer]

I was there today, the 5 & 6 year olds were in the - yes - very scarey indoor. I thought they all handled it well tho’, considering they’d been there for a few days.

[dresstar]

Wow, that is to bad. So only one horse from the us can go to Verden. At least she was bred US. As far as the judges they are always saying something bad about the horse or the rider. You just have to let have to let it go. Everyone has a bad ride. Riding horses is not always fun. They are not machines. Any judge that rides knows that. I think some judges just try to make them selfs feel better by saying things.
Well Good luck to Willy Arts!

[ise]

I suppose the appropriate question for the rude judge would be “have YOU ever ridden these young horse tests?”.

Great news about Valeska DG - her dam Polimbria is 1/2 sister to one of my mares!

[dq140]

[QUOTE=Sister Margarita;3256564]
With judges making comments such as these over a PA, the USEF is shooting themselves in the foot if they have a desire to develop this program. What trainer wants to go through all it takes to get there then have themselves slammed for doing their best with an excited athletic 5 year old? The tests are hard enough, the arena is hard enough, but a judge telling someone their riding is poor over a public address system because a horse melts down in a very, very stimulating, unique environment shows that the one in need of better judgment is not the rider. If these judges can’t use a microphone in a respectful manner, they should pass it to someone who can.

I’ve done this program, saw its value, but walked the other way when I heard someone else get reemed in a similar way.

I guess nothing was learned in Lexington a couple of years ago. The talk at the next CDI among the riders was how the comments they heard would prevent them from ever participating. How unfortunate.[/QUOTE]

I dont’ look at it as rude at all. I think/hope/pray it will save the next generation of trainers/riders in America. If it is true that McDonald said above, it’s exactly what most competitors here in America need…a good balloon buster to get their training headed in the correct direction. Unfortunately, the powers that be will most likely never invite her back to judge again. Americans cannot stand to hear that their training is incorrect. Holy Cow, they wouldn’t be able make as much money teaching clinics at $350 per ride perpetuating their lack of knowledge which in turn gets passed down incorrectly over and over again. Yaaaaaay for McDonald. we need more judges like her!!!

[hsheffield]

we can learn from the europeans

I have literally sat through hundreds of YH tests in Europe and have almost never heard the kind of comments I heard from L. MacDonald. There are ways to comment on the rides without being demeaning. Christoph Hess is almost famous for saying ‘well, TODAY we did not see…’

I want to make clear however that Linda Zang did a good job of commenting from what I saw. I didn’t hear comments on every ride, but what I heard was thoughtful. Scott Hassler and Jennifer Keeler have done a good job growing this program and I believe they will
start to address some of the judging comments in the future. My guess is that they really have no choice if they want the program to continue to attract top trainers.

[hsheffield]

dq140

dq140:

My point was that it wasn’t bad riding per se that was causing the problems with the horses on Friday. They were young horses many of whom were in an indoor arena by themselves for the first time right after the horse before them had just ridden out…very scary place for a herd animal. That’s not to mention that the YH tests are sometimes at the edge of their strength/ability.
To make a general statement that American riders need to get their balloons burst is quite a generalization about a country that has earned the bronze medal at the Olympics since 1996.

[Jade13]

There were weather problems at the West Coast Selection Trials last weekend. Four of the top five 6 year olds were to compete for Verden. Only one qualified, yes Willy and his mare deserve it but others should have been scored close. Mcdonald was not the judge yet there were similar negative coments for both the 5 and 6 year competitions. Almost all the horses were riden by professional riders or coached by top trainers in the county. This program will die if changes are not made.

[DownYonder]

Sunday results have been posted at http://www.cdi-raleigh.com/2008cdcSundayResults.pdf .

Joe Sandven on Ronatella S won the 5 y/o Final with 8.0, and Chris Hickey on Cabana Boy won the 6 y/o Final with 8.1999. Joe’s score from the Preliminary on Saturday was 7.86, and Chris’ score was 8.1, so neither one qualified for the World Championships in Verden (average score from the two rides had to be 8.2). What a shame - they are two very lovely horses, with wonderful riders.

My 5 y/o was supposed to be in the Friday class, but he was just imported in late March and wasn’t quite ready for Raleigh, so we scratched. I am doubly glad we elected to keep him at home after hearing how scary the indoor is at Raleigh, as well as hearing about the brutal comments from the judge.

I’m guessing that they decided to put the Y/H tests in the indoor because they often have a terrific thunderstorm at this show, and they probably didn’t want to take a chance on these classes being affected by weather since they were qualifiers for the National Championships and selection trials for Verden. But it’s a tall order asking a 5 y/o to show relaxation and brilliance at the same time in a scary indoor arena! And then to be publicly crucified by the judge when it was all you could do to get the horse around the ring - yikes! :eek:

[ise]

Well it would seem only fair that if they are going to select venues for these final tests they should be comparable with respect to the facilities. If this indoor at Raleigh is a problem and other venues didn’t have this to deal with - how can these selection finals be on the same level?

I also agree that direct and clear comments about good or bad riding can be made without being rude or snipey. That only makes the person making the remarks look terrible and also damages the program for Young Horses. It’s costly and difficult to even compete horses in this program and the people organizing it have some work to do if we even have any hopes of getting our best young horses through the selection process and on to Europe.

What’s that old saying “A cat that sits on a hot stove won’t sit on a hot stove again - but he probably won’t sit on a cold one either”. Let the scores indicate where the problems and weaknesses are and make clear comments on where training is correct or incorrect. Beating riders/trainers up in public may or may not improve their future rides but sure as he** will isn’t going to encourage more riders - especially amateurs - to even consider this program.

[YankeeLawyer]

@ise@ssl;3256819

I suppose the appropriate question for the rude judge would be “have YOU ever ridden these young horse tests?”.

Actually, good question. Have any of the judges ridden them, in competition?