Ranch Riding: Slowing the lope

[RanchRider]

Hello All,

I need some additional thoughts on an issue that I am having. The title prefaces the issue a bit and I maybe need some outside of the box idea. I will try to give as much detail as possible.

Here is a little about my horse and what we do:

Scoot is a 14.2h Foundation Bred Quarter horse. He is Two Eyed Jack/Zan Parr Bar bred and very closely related to both of those horses as they are both on his papers. Scoot is 7 years old and was a green rope horse when I bought him 2 years ago. He was also a stallion until about 2 months before I purchased him. I have had little to no issues with him retaining any stallion tendencies.

I bought this horse with the intention of showing the new Ranch Riding classes at the Open and AQHA level. We have had a lot of success and won money at the open level as well as earned some points at the AQHA level. Our goal is to qualify and show at the AQHA World Show in 2016.

Some other things that we do are cattle events as well as some trail riding. He has a heck of a cow sense and loves working cattle. We are going to follow down the reined cow horse path next year.

Over the past two years, I have spent the majority of my time retraining him as a show horse. He bends, counterbends, will counter canter and flexes well. He collects at all gaits reasonably well. Scoot moves shoulders and hips independently. He will always give to pressure and break at the poll. He has a sliding stop. We side pass, spin, extends at the walk and trot. We pretty much have all the bells and whistles except for a slow, smooth collected lope. Right now I would say that Scoot’s lope is more of an extended lope than the slower (AQHA calls this the collected lope). For the open level its been fine because he has another gear above that lope that isnt quite a gallop, but its not collected or smooth that passes for the extended.

So to this point I have tried a host of things to slow him down. We religiously worked with side reins to rule out a strength or mechanical issue. He collects and slows down fine on the line. I have tried half halting him to slow him up. We have tried the go fast until you don’t want to go fast anymore then I keep making you go fast so to show you its easier to go slow method.Our current exercise plan for the lope consists of 10-15ft circles. When I get a few slow strides, we slow up, he gets a pet and we stop loping.

However, every single day we still start out like a little race horse and I have to pretty much wear him down to lope slower. That really isnt ideal for me because I lose the forwardness and crispness of everything else.

So we have either a mental issue with the horse or a rider issue

His mentality isn’t of a scared, weak or stiff horse. He still listens and steers well. And once we stop loping he is fine. I was thinking that when he was taught to lope is was by a roper and it was YEE HAW. Outside spur pressure and run like a bat out of hell.

A recent consideration is my body position and maybe I am driving him to much to get him to collect. Maybe I lean a little to forward at the lope. So I am going to really try to exaggerate pulling shoulders back and stop driving with my legs.

Now here is the last piece of information that I have to be considered. Scoot is about 14’3 in the rear and about 14’1 at the wither. He is definitely a downhilll built horse. I understand collection is going to be tough for him. Another thought is that the slow, smooth lope with rider/tack may just not be a possibility for him. I may need to just refine what I have and live with it.

So, sorry for the novel, please let me know your thoughts.

[Beverley]

Ah, yes, I learned by doing in the 60s that ‘loping them down’ (or longeing them down) gives you a very fit horse who then takes longer to ‘lope down.’

Western pleasure justly gets its criticism these days as a freak show, but I will tell you that developing the seat and legs you need to show successfully is a great bonus that can help with steadying or slowing horses across disciplines. I would suggest the solution to your problem is some drills, simply lengthen and shorten your horse’s stride using legs and seat, first at the walk, then the trot, then the lope. And, back there at the walk, work on getting your horse to stop based only on your complete relaxation of body. That is the same concept you need to get the lope slow and steady and balanced. And yes, if you lean forward, the horse will quite naturally assume ‘go,’ so focus on soft and if it helps, visualize keeping your back jeans pockets in contact with the cantle to help keep you perpendicular to the ground.

[Foxglove]

I like what Beverley said, but will give you another idea for an exercise that might help slow the lope --worked on two of mine. But you start at the walk in an area that has a fence --arena’s nice, but pasture fence will do. We always train in snaffle, show in curb. Ride one handed, hand to the fence is at your side. Ride along the fence at a walk, totally loose rein. At some point (I hope) your horse will speed up faster than the walk you want, or maybe even trot. At that very second, turn the head into the fence and go the other way. Just reach down, pick up the rein beside the neck, direct rein horse into the fence, reverse direction. Continue to walk. At the second the horse speeds up, pick up the rein next to the fence, turn him inside to the fence, and reverse again. Horse figures out quickly, that any speeding up causes your hand to reach for the rein and the second they feel that hand move to the rein, they learn to slow down.

Now do it at the trot. Again, the second there is any “speeding up” turn into the fence, go the other way.

We only do this practice for about 15-20 min at a time.

Now, if you are in an area where the footing is good, and you are a good rider, do the practice at a canter. It would be similar to a rollback.

I think your horse will figure out, when your hand moves to that inside rein, he’s going to have to turn into the fence, and he’ll slow down.

Foxglove

[RanchRider]

I would suggest the solution to your problem is some drills, simply lengthen and shorten your horse’s stride using legs and seat, first at the walk, then the trot, then the lope. And, back there at the walk, work on getting your horse to stop based only on your complete relaxation of body. That is the same concept you need to get the lope slow and steady and balanced. And yes, if you lean forward, the horse will quite naturally assume ‘go,’ so focus on soft and if it helps, visualize keeping your back jeans pockets in contact with the cantle to help keep you perpendicular to the ground.

Thank you

[RanchRider]

[QUOTE=Foxglove;8453877]
At some point (I hope) your horse will speed up faster than the walk you want, or maybe even trot. At that very second, turn the head into the fence and go the other way. Just reach down, pick up the rein beside the neck, direct rein horse into the fence, reverse direction. Continue to walk. At the second the horse speeds up, pick up the rein next to the fence, turn him inside to the fence, and reverse again. Horse figures out quickly, that any speeding up causes your hand to reach for the rein and the second they feel that hand move to the rein, they learn to slow down.

Now do it at the trot. Again, the second there is any “speeding up” turn into the fence, go the other way.

We only do this practice for about 15-20 min at a time.

Now, if you are in an area where the footing is good, and you are a good rider, do the practice at a canter. It would be similar to a rollback.

I think your horse will figure out, when your hand moves to that inside rein, he’s going to have to turn into the fence, and he’ll slow down.[/QUOTE]

We do have a nice indoor. He is very steady speed wise at the walk and jog. His walk is fairly slow but can be quickened by driving a little bit with your seat/legs. At the jog, he knows when I lift weight out of the seat to extended his gait. In the AQHA Ranch Riding it is acceptable to 2 point the extended trot while holding the horn as you would if you were covering ground on the trail. As soon as you sit back down, he will calmly come back collected underneath you.

And at the lope, I have given this a try before with him. It made him pretty anxious, almost had the opposite effect. I’m not sure if he likened it to getting a little hyped up like when we turn cows on the fence during cow work.

I think that for the time being I am going to really try stop driving so hard with my seat. He is extremely keen to collecting and moving out when being “driven”. The more I think about this and type it out, the more I think that I may just be driving too hard and leaning. I’ll give it a few rides and see if I can make a difference.

I very much appreciate the thoughts and please keep the ideas coming!

Thanks,

[Doctracy]

Try doing a lot of lope poles set 6-7 feet apart. I suspect some of this is a strength and downhill issue. My best WP horses are built with pretty high withers,even though they’re necks come out fairly low.
I would do a lot of really slow walking/jogging and extended trot. Teach him that leg/spur means slow/whoa. Make sure you are leaning back and using leg,not rein.
Honestly,with his breeding I would do the ranch and reining stuff. He is just not bred for slow. A lot of going really slow is breeding and mental. Horses bred to be reiners and ropers have a lot of go and the ones I’ve ridden bred like him even have a lot of go for reiners.

[Bluey]

Reiners have slow circles and they have to be a very cleary slow, compared with their fast ones.

You slow it down by sitting down and straight and riding a hair behind the motion, so it is a clear signal to them and the horse is clearly listening, so the judges can asses how good that transition is.

How do you teach slow to a horse that is on the front end and rushes?

Many, many transitions help the horse find his balance and then it will become adjustable in it’s speed also.

[dog_amp_horsemom]

this exercise worked for me on a 14.3 horse that I have that only wanted to gallop around the ring.
pick up the canter ( say to the right) canter a circle - stop - back up - change direction and repeat above. I did that every day and he developed a really nice, cadenced slow ( but not western pleasure slow) lope.

[spotnnotfarm]

I also show in ranch riding and do cow work! You need very clear cues between for each gait and you have to be consistent in applying them. To get a slower more collected lope, do a lot of lope to walk transitions on a circle. I do them about every quarter. You will find your horse will get underneath himself in the lope and slow it down.
When I ask for the extended lope on my horse, I squeeze with both legs,put my hand forward and lean slightly forward. When I want to collect up, I release leg pressure, sit up and bring my hand back. It is a cue my horse needs to slow his stride, and collect himself.

We also do a ton of thick poles so he learns to carry himself. Good luck! It is such a fun class!

[RanchRider]

[QUOTE=Doctracy;8454134]

Honestly,with his breeding I would do the ranch and reining stuff. He is just not bred for slow. A lot of going really slow is breeding and mental. Horses bred to be reiners and ropers have a lot of go and the ones I’ve ridden bred like him even have a lot of go for reiners.[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I confused anyone but I am not doing western pleasure. Ranch Riding is not like a pleasure class at all. This is the class description:

Ranch Riding (formerly known as Ranch Horse Pleasure)

The ranch riding horse should simulate a horse riding outside the confines of an arena and reflect the versatility, attitude and movement of a working horse. The class is judged on the horse’s ability to work at a forward, working speed while performing the required and optional maneuvers. The required maneuvers are the walk, jog and lope (both directions), the extended trot and extended lope at least one direction as well as stops, back and one change of direction. The optional maneuvers are sidepass; turns of 360 degrees or more; change of lead (simple or flying); walk, jog or lope over poles or other reasonable maneuvers a ranch horse could perform. Scoring is on a 0-100 point scale with 70 denoting an average performance.

[spotnnotfarm]

Ranch Rider, what area of the country are you in?

[RanchRider]

[QUOTE=spotnnotfarm;8454757]
Ranch Rider, what area of the country are you in?[/QUOTE]

Western PA, right outside of Pittsburgh near the Pittsburgh International Airport.

[Palm_Beach]

OP, since your horse “starts out like a racehorse” every day, I think maybe you need to spend more time on the ground with him, getting him mentally focusing on you and ready and willing to wait for your cues. You sound like a very competent rider and trainer, but if Scoot is not listening at the beginning, you have to make some kind of change so that you remove the conflict you are having with him - somehow he got you to simply butt heads with him on a daily basis. He wants to hurry, you want slower. Maybe do some ground work exercises, work over poles so he needs to pay attention to his feet, do lateral work, until he is better focused and listening. You want something other than you to make him slow down.

[RanchRider]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8455228]
OP, since your horse “starts out like a racehorse” every day, I think maybe you need to spend more time on the ground with him, getting him mentally focusing on you and ready and willing to wait for your cues. You sound like a very competent rider and trainer, but if Scoot is not listening at the beginning, you have to make some kind of change so that you remove the conflict you are having with him - somehow he got you to simply butt heads with him on a daily basis. He wants to hurry, you want slower. Maybe do some ground work exercises, work over poles so he needs to pay attention to his feet, do lateral work, until he is better focused and listening. You want something other than you to make him slow down.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the reply. So my wording may have been a little misleading. Our rides don’t start off bad at all. It starts at the moment I ask him to lope. I try to lope last so when he does what I ask I can hop off let him and be done.

A typical workout goes something like this. I don’t lounge. I tack up and walk a few laps and make a few turns to get him used to my weight on him. We will do a little bending and flexing at the walk. Then I let him dictate what we do. I will circle and figure 8 at the walk, jog and extended jog. If he’s collected, turning well and transitioning nicely I move on. If not, then we go two handed and work circles and bend until he softens and is responsive.

After that depending on how long we spent working thus far I will work the side pass and spin. Again if they are good then we move on to the lope. If not, we stay there and work. Some days we never get past the jog circles. And other days we are ready to lope in about 15 minutes.

Then I get him in frame at the walk on a small circle. I cue for the lope and see what happens. Normally he’s a fast but still well under control and listening.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=RanchRider;8455480]
Thank you for the reply. So my wording may have been a little misleading. Our rides don’t start off bad at all. It starts at the moment I ask him to lope. I try to lope last so when he does what I ask I can hop off let him and be done.

A typical workout goes something like this. I don’t lounge. I tack up and walk a few laps and make a few turns to get him used to my weight on him. We will do a little bending and flexing at the walk. Then I let him dictate what we do. I will circle and figure 8 at the walk, jog and extended jog. If he’s collected, turning well and transitioning nicely I move on. If not, then we go two handed and work circles and bend until he softens and is responsive.

After that depending on how long we spent working thus far I will work the side pass and spin. Again if they are good then we move on to the lope. If not, we stay there and work. Some days we never get past the jog circles. And other days we are ready to lope in about 15 minutes.

Then I get him in frame at the walk on a small circle. I cue for the lope and see what happens. Normally he’s a fast but still well under control and listening.[/QUOTE]

I think if you look into ground work your under saddle training will really benefit. I find it rather boring, and it’s hard to see the benefit when your horse is basically good to ride and responsive, and does not have any bad/dangerous habits. But I also find that when I haven’t done it in a while, I lose some of the responsiveness, respect and reliability from my horse when I am riding. It truly can make that hair split of a difference when you are in a frustrating spot under saddle.

[Doctracy]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8455228]
OP, since your horse “starts out like a racehorse” every day, I think maybe you need to spend more time on the ground with him, getting him mentally focusing on you and ready and willing to wait for your cues. You sound like a very competent rider and trainer, but if Scoot is not listening at the beginning, you have to make some kind of change so that you remove the conflict you are having with him - somehow he got you to simply butt heads with him on a daily basis. He wants to hurry, you want slower. Maybe do some ground work exercises, work over poles so he needs to pay attention to his feet, do lateral work, until he is better focused and listening. You want something other than you to make him slow down.[/QUOTE]
So true. Then,continue same exercises under saddle. Transitions,shoulder in,hip in,side pass each gate,counter canter,and poles at each gate.
Set a pole obstacle similar to a Tim Kimura course. Just one small section and starting with walk poles,then do trot pole exercises. Having to lift the feet also lifts the back and the focus of poles plus turning can settle a busy mind.

[RanchRider]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8455487]
I think if you look into ground work your under saddle training will really benefit. I find it rather boring, and it’s hard to see the benefit when your horse is basically good to ride and responsive, and does not have any bad/dangerous habits. But I also find that when I haven’t done it in a while, I lose some of the responsiveness, respect and reliability from my horse when I am riding. It truly can make that hair split of a difference when you are in a frustrating spot under saddle.[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the ground work aspect but I feel this is an under saddle issue. We have done a ton of ground work and regular go back to it.

As far as him dictating what we do, I meant it in the sense that if we don’t get past jogging correctly we stay there and work it. If we aren’t jogging or bending correctly then no reason to try to lope.

[RanchRider]

[QUOTE=dog&horsemom;8454225]
this exercise worked for me on a 14.3 horse that I have that only wanted to gallop around the ring.
pick up the canter ( say to the right) canter a circle - stop - back up - change direction and repeat above. I did that every day and he developed a really nice, cadenced slow ( but not western pleasure slow) lope.[/QUOTE]

I gave this a go today with good results. I’m going to keep working this exercise and see what we get in a few weeks.

[paulaedwina]

[QUOTE=RanchRider;8455780]
I gave this a go today with good results. I’m going to keep working this exercise and see what we get in a few weeks.[/QUOTE]

Ooh I think I may give this exercise a try!

[TheHunterKid90]

A few things I do with my reiners,
You mentioned your horse gets anxious if you do something like turn him into the fence when he gets ahead of you and I agree. I wouldn’t do that. Because ultimately I want my horse to relax and want to break gait, not be on the muscle all the time.
We get some kind of hot spicey two year olds sometimes and I will do drills like trot
And let them trot until they’re relaxed and then take a lead depart from a trot. (While we never take a lead depart from a trot in reining, it’s useful for settling a hot horse and using it as a training tool.) once you’re loping, as soon as your horse gets fast or ahead of you in any way, break to a trot. Don’t do it by pulling on him or making him nervous. I use steering in as a very useful tool. Just drive him in a smaller circle off your outside rein and smaller and smaller while relaxing your body and humming “hmmmmm” until he break down a gear. When he does, immediately release all pressure and let him trot loose reined on a bigger circle. When he relaxes, rinse and repeat starting with loping off. It’s amazing how quickly you can get a hot hot horse to want to just slow down and trot as their first reaction instead of running.
Gradually, you can just steer in a little and not break down and the. When your horse gets forward you can just hum to him and he will come back to you. That’s how we teach the come back for the small slow circles.
Just remember, don’t highten the situation. Don’t turn him into the wall, don’t yank or pull him in the ground.

Also, to add, I like this exercise better than just stopping the horse and backing him up because you only correct when he does something you don’t want AND you develop buttons and cues you can use in the show pen. If your horse thinks like he might get hot
In the pen what would you rather? Stop him and back him up and then be disqualified? Or hum and my horse checks back into me and comes backs…