REALLY????!!!!!!

[RugBug]

@ladyj79

I disagree. I know a lot of riders who aren’t “fitness nuts” but are in excellent shape because they work on it. They have personal trainers, do boot camps and/or yoga and/or weight training. Actually when I taught in college the team was obligated to attend multiple gym training sessions a week.

Even within the professional level of sports you think are real athletes there is a WIDE variety of fitness levels.

I think your average professional rider is absolutely as fit as your average football player. Or tennis player.

You literally cannot be competitive at the top levels of the sport and not be fit.

[continuation of a tangent]

Again, I have to disagree. The fitness programs of pro athletes, especially the aforementioned soccer players, is not similar to the fitness program of the majority of pro riders. Being physical fit vs. being fit to play pro soccer, etc is not the same thing. Most riders are not getting injuries just because of their fitness programs. If the physical requirements were the same, you would not see 40+ year old riders being as successful as they are. There is a reason you don’t see older althletes in these sports. Do you think David Beckham retired at 38 because he didn’t want to play anymore? Or perhaps it was because he couldn’t keep up? Beezie is in her 50s. McLain is 41. Riders get BETTER with age (usually) because the sport is not entirely about physical fitness/prowess.

This isn’t an insult to riding. It’s just a fact. Riders ARE athletes, just not on par with some other professional athletes.

And there are top riders that have not been in the best physical shape and still been successful.

[/end tangent?]

[ladyj79]

@RugBug

[continuation of a tangent]

Again, I have to disagree. The fitness programs of pro athletes, especially the aforementioned soccer players, is not similar to the fitness program of the majority of pro riders. Being physical fit vs. being fit to play pro soccer, etc is not the same thing. Most riders are not getting injuries just because of their fitness programs. If the physical requirements were the same, you would not see 40+ year old riders being as successful as they are. There is a reason you don’t see older althletes in these sports. Do you think David Beckham retired at 38 because he didn’t want to play anymore? Or perhaps it was because he couldn’t keep up? Beezie is in her 50s. McLain is 41. Riders get BETTER with age (usually) because the sport is not entirely about physical fitness/prowess.

This isn’t an insult to riding. It’s just a fact. Riders ARE athletes, just not on par with some other professional athletes.

And there are top riders that have not been in the best physical shape and still been successful.

[/end tangent?]

Ah so now we are just addressing professional soccer players, instead of soccer players and football players and tennis players (but not baseball players–lazy slobs).

So sure, I will concede that your average professional rider is probably not as aerobically fit as your average professional soccer player. What an odd point to bring up.

[RugBug]

@ladyj79

Ah so now we are just addressing professional soccer players, instead of soccer players and football players and tennis players (but not baseball players–lazy slobs).

So sure, I will concede that your average professional rider is probably not as aerobically fit as your average professional soccer player. What an odd point to bring up.

No, I’m also addressing Football and tennis and ice skaters and swimmers and many track and field (not those darn shot putters, I would wager riders most riders are more cardiovascularly fit than they are…).

It’s not an odd point. When the argument is ‘No other athletes dress like we do’…and soccer is used for the support, it’s not odd.

[vxf111]

I guess I might feel differently if people were wearing white undershirt tank tops or bathing suit tops or something-- but a tucked in, neat fitting show shirt and/polo with a belt has you this up in arms, OP? When coats are waived, that is considered appropriate. I’d agree with you if what was worn was something very sloppy, but the pictures show pretty neat, traditional attire for when coats are waived. Which is what happened?! Show management made the call to waive coats. It’s their call, and riders shouldn’t be penalized for doing what show management allowed

[skydy]

@Training Cupid

Just ask yourself: WWGMD?

(What would George Morris do?!)

What would G.M. not do? After that autobiography,any pretensions to “class” rather went out the window.
One can do what one pleases in private. “Class” tends to restrain people from discussing, and counting, how many people they have had sex with in their lives for public consumption.

As an oracle of good taste? George’s ship has sailed.

[ladyj79]

@RugBug

No, I’m also addressing Football and tennis and ice skaters and swimmers and many track and field (not those darn shot putters, I would wager riders most riders are more cardiovascularly fit than they are…).

It’s not an odd point. When the argument is ‘No other athletes dress like we do’…and soccer is used for the support, it’s not odd.

Ok, so again, you think riders shouldn’t wear athletic clothing because they aren’t real athletes like football players and ice skaters, but not baseball players who apparently you don’t think are wearing athletic apparel?

Can you tell me what you think baseball players are wearing? Cause it seems like you might not understand they are wearing athletic apparel. Like tech fibers and everything.

And I’m sorry, I just still have to disagree that your average professional show jumper isn’t as fit as your average football player. I kind of think you might think all football players are running backs and tight ends. Oh, and that all baseball players are pitchers and first basemen. But that would make for terrible sport.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

In addition to everyone else’s points, I will add that it’s certainly not fair to the horse if the rider is so overheated that the rider passes out while the horse is being piloted over jumps of significant size…or even if the rider is just spacey and unfocused because of the heat. Of course, there’s no way to completely remove heat from the equation but anything that can be done to alleviate it while still allowing the rider to wear safe and appropriate gear should be encouraged.

I may get mocked for bringing up this example from dressageland, but I recently attended a clinic on judging run by a local dressage judge and tournament director. She mentioned that while she didn’t take off points for wearing coats when jackets were waived, it annoyed her when people insisted on wearing them when they were obviously beet red and suffering and she certainly never gave any extra consideration to people who suffered through wearing a jacket when they didn’t have to do so.

While it is true that a lack of fitness and extra weight can make someone more sensitive to the heat, it’s certainly not the only factor. Some people are genetically less equipped to deal with the heat. There are also some medical conditions and medications that can make people more sensitive to high temperatures. That doesn’t make them poorer riders or disrespectful.

Somewhat off topic, I think the issue of fitness regimes for riding is interesting. I know some riders are serious cross-fitters, bikers, swimmers, and marathoners and many lift weights and do Pilates. Visually, there are obviously very different builds of riders but some level of fitness is necessary, even if they can’t run an Olympic-quality marathon time. When I saw McLain ride in person, I was surprised at what a slight man he was, all lean muscle and sinew.

[RugBug]

@ladyj79

Ok, so again, you think riders shouldn’t wear athletic clothing because they aren’t real athletes like football players and ice skaters, but not baseball players who apparently you don’t think are wearing athletic apparel?

Can you tell me what you think baseball players are wearing? Cause it seems like you might not understand they are wearing athletic apparel. Like tech fibers and everything.

And I’m sorry, I just still have to disagree that your average professional show jumper isn’t as fit as your average football player. I kind of think you might think all football players are running backs and tight ends. Oh, and that all baseball players are catchers and first basemen. But that would make for terrible sport.

Are riders not wearing tech fabrics these days? Because I know all my show clothes are tech fabrics. (Well, I still prefer a nice light wool coat, but that’s my choice).

So, this is my last post to you because I find your posts a bit ridiculous. You can nitpick my posts all you would like. It doesn’t change facts. I am not making broad assumptions about athletes in other sports. I am well familiar with physical requirements.

[RugBug]

@Impractical Horsewoman

Somewhat off topic, I think the issue of fitness regimes for riding is interesting. I know some riders are serious cross-fitters, bikers, swimmers, and marathoners and many lift weights and do Pilates. Visually, there are obviously very different builds of riders but some level of fitness is necessary, even if they can’t run an Olympic-quality marathon time. When I saw McLain ride in person, I was surprised at what a slight man he was, all lean muscle and sinew.

Don’t get me wrong, I know there are many riders in very good shape. Especially these days when there is a lot of emphasis on clean, healthy living. My point is that it isn’t necessarily a requirement for riders to be in extremely good shape…like it is for other sports. The physical exertion during an average ride (warm up/round(s) ) is not equivalent to that of most athletes and thus I believe the argument that we are athletes therefore we need athletic apparel isn’t really the strongest

[ladyj79]

@RugBug

Are riders not wearing tech fabrics these days? Because I know all my show clothes are tech fabrics. (Well, I still prefer a nice light wool coat, but that’s my choice).

So, this is my last post to you because I find your posts a bit ridiculous. You can nitpick my posts all you would like. It doesn’t change facts. I am not making broad assumptions about athletes in other sports. I am well familiar with physical requirements.

That’s cool, we can be done. But I do love it when people thinking quoting them is nitpicking. Like you did literally say baseball players aren’t wearing athletic apparel. I’m just going to go ahead and quote you again

@RugBug

I hate to break it to all you ‘we are athletes, so we should get to dress like athletes’ folks out there…Riders are athletes in the skills, mental, and competitive aspects. But we are hardly athletes comparable to soccer, basketball, tennis and most american football players. We are more akin to baseball players…and they aren’t all decked out in lycra/spandex…because they don’t NEED to be. They have bursts of activity that are fairly short lived. Just like riders. Hunter/Jumper riders are rarely in the ring for more than 3 minutes. While I know I can be close to passing out (usually due to holding my breath), if I wanted, I could easily wear my light wool coats for that time frame and not die.
.

FYI The average length of a football play is 7 seconds.

I’m not sure you are familiar with sports.

[AffirmedHope]

I don’t think we should totally ditch the jackets, but maybe not make them mandatory for classes during the day or anything below the 4* level (if we are just talking show jumping right now). I mean, is it really destroying the sport if the FEI riders at WEF don’t wear the full get up in the 1.45 on Wednesday at 10am? Maybe just keep the mandatory for 5* Grand Prix or any Grand Prix during the night as well as for championships and team competitions.

I know one of the goals of many riders is to “earn” the privilege of wearing the national team jacket and represent their country in international competition. I can’t see a polo shirt with a patch having the same prestige as the coveted red coat. :winkgrin:

It’s a little bit trickier for the equitation and hunter divisions, IMO as it is more about “the look” but I’m sure there is compromise that can be made.

[kashmere]

Erm. I used soccer players as an example because I just happen to know offhand that they used to wear silly woolen long-sleeved/pant uniforms. I know I’m not as fit as Cristiano Ronaldo :lol:

Thing is, my point still stands. I’m a casual runner - think 5k but kind of slowly and…ungracefully. When I run, I wear lightweight tech fabrics. It helps me perform better (which in my case is turning oh so slightly less tomato coloured) because I am comfortable, cool, and wearing things that are designed for the kind of physical activity I’m doing. It holds true for riding, too. Again, not saying that riders necessarily have the same physical stressors as some other athletes but I fail to see why that means we should be less appropriately attired for doing a sport.

I remember doing a dressage test in a so-called lightweight coat in the humid summer heat and getting overheated to the point of puking off the side of my horse. It really doesn’t take long to become unwell in heat - and even if a test or an o/f round is 3 mins, there’s also warmup etc.

Aaaaanyway agree to disagree but I will welcome every change that allows us to step away from projectile puking from exhaustion while in the saddle.

[Dutchmare433]

@kashmere

Erm. I used soccer players as an example because I just happen to know offhand that they used to wear silly woolen long-sleeved/pant uniforms. I know I’m not as fit as Cristiano Ronaldo :lol:

Thing is, my point still stands. I’m a casual runner - think 5k but kind of slowly and…ungracefully. When I run, I wear lightweight tech fabrics. It helps me perform better (which in my case is turning oh so slightly less tomato coloured) because I am comfortable, cool, and wearing things that are designed for the kind of physical activity I’m doing. It holds true for riding, too. Again, not saying that riders necessarily have the same physical stressors as some other athletes but I fail to see why that means we should be less appropriately attired for doing a sport.

I remember doing a dressage test in a so-called lightweight coat in the humid summer heat and getting overheated to the point of puking off the side of my horse. It really doesn’t take long to become unwell in heat - and even if a test or an o/f round is 3 mins, there’s also warmup etc.

Aaaaanyway agree to disagree but I will welcome every change that allows us to step away from projectile puking from exhaustion while in the saddle.

A few years ago I walked into the show office and over the radio heard “rider just saluted then threw up, time to waive jackets!” (I throw up when I get really hot too, so I’m right there with you, I threw up sort of on myself/sort of into the wind during a bike race once, and I was certainly not wearing a freakin’ show coat.)

[snowrider]

There is no way riders are anywhere near as fit as most professional athletes, barring some of the top pros who take fitness seriously. But we all know pros who are somewhat… blobbier than average. Are they fit enough to do their sport? Sure. But soccer players are ~incredibly~ fit, it’s up there with beach volleyball for fitness. American football players might be a better comparison, in the less running more standing around positions. While I’m a big fan of athletic wear, I think that the trend towards riders being in skin tight lycra has gone far enough with the current breeches on the market quite honestly. We are not nordic skiers or swimmers, we are generally older and fatter and the sport has an image problem as it is.

As far as wearing coats when they are waived it’s possible said competitors wore a hot pink sports bra (because its the most comfortable one!) and isn’t comfortable showing in a see through sweaty and clingy white shirt and a hot pink sports bra. Just saying, it happens.

[ladyj79]

@snowrider

There is no way riders are anywhere near as fit as most professional athletes, barring some of the top pros who take fitness seriously. But we all know pros who are somewhat… blobbier than average. Are they fit enough to do their sport? Sure. But soccer players are ~incredibly~ fit, it’s up there with beach volleyball for fitness. American football players might be a better comparison, in the less running more standing around positions. While I’m a big fan of athletic wear, I think that the trend towards riders being in skin tight lycra has gone far enough with the current breeches on the market quite honestly. We are not nordic skiers or swimmers, we are generally older and fatter and the sport has an image problem as it is.

As far as wearing coats when they are waived it’s possible said competitors wore a hot pink sports bra (because its the most comfortable one!) and isn’t comfortable showing in a see through sweaty and clingy white shirt and a hot pink sports bra. Just saying, it happens.

We are talking specifically about professional show jumpers.

[doublesstable]

@doublesstable

Clicked on this thread to see what “really” was all about… I don’t know how ye-all have so much time and energy for this kind of stuff… well off to check the farm sprinkler system and take a nap

@ladyj79

You would be amazed at how much time you save if you don’t have a farm sprinkler system to check

@trubandloki

And you can save even more time by not taking a nap.

Then how will I afford to buy wine and horse stuff?

Yeah, since the coyo’ts chewed up a bunch of water lines I never got that nap - Booo!

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@ladyj79

http://www.noellefloyd.com/in-respect-of-sport-or-sponsor-polo-shirts-in-1-million-grand-prix-debate/

What’s really funny about this article is that it wasn’t really a debate, literally there are no actual quotes from anyone, so really, as far as I can tell, Esther is the only one who had a problem with it. Noelle Floyd journalism is always so poorly conceived.

Isn’t “Noelle Floyd journalism” an oxymoron? Likewise “Eventingconnect journalism”.

[mmeqcenter]

@Firebug

I agree that Jackets need to be a thing of the past, but I can’t agree that polo’s are great. I would love if the sport went to more athletic attire, but I really hope the change isn’t to polo’s as the only appropriate shirt. I hate–hate–hate polo’s; not because of how they look but because they are hot, don’t breath, and offer no sun protection. For someone who has a family history of melanoma scares I will not wear a polo. Of course, I have been told that because I don’t/won’t wear a polo when riding/lessoning that I don’t take my riding seriously.

Polos are available in a huge variety of fabrics these days, and it’s very easy to find one that is breathable and lighter than your traditional, heavy polyester or cotton polo. Particularly those made for golfers have a good selection.

[Man_in_Black]

@snowrider

As far as wearing coats when they are waived it’s possible said competitors wore a hot pink sports bra (because its the most comfortable one!) and isn’t comfortable showing in a see through sweaty and clingy white shirt and a hot pink sports bra. Just saying, it happens.

I’m going to be honest, there were times I had a pink sports bra on under my pale blue show shirt and opted to keep my jacket on in 90+ heat because I was so embarrassed that I sweat through my shirt and the pink bra was visible. LOL needless to say, I suffered a heat related illness as a teenager (passed out while trying to get off my horse) and can no longer tolerate the heat. While I do not show nearly as much as I did as a junior, my sit-at-a-desk-40-hours-a-week ass would appreciate jackets being dismissed in the heat of the summer…especially now that I’m a little more conservative in my bra color choices AND with so many cute, yet conservative sun shirts/technical show shirts available.

[dags]

@snowrider

There is no way riders are anywhere near as fit as most professional athletes, barring some of the top pros who take fitness seriously. But we all know pros who are somewhat… blobbier than average. Are they fit enough to do their sport? Sure. But soccer players are ~incredibly~ fit, it’s up there with beach volleyball for fitness. American football players might be a better comparison, in the less running more standing around positions. While I’m a big fan of athletic wear, I think that the trend towards riders being in skin tight lycra has gone far enough with the current breeches on the market quite honestly. We are not nordic skiers or swimmers, we are generally older and fatter and the sport has an image problem as it is.

Both sides are mildly correct on this one, though I lean towards the “athlete” argument, as I think that’s a smart direction for the <ahem> sport to lean. There are far more professional riders than soccer players (could stock a US Soccer team on Lexington trainers alone), so a certain element of our “professionals” are more akin to the recreational (ie: amateur) soccer player, and I think those two are much closer in fitness levels. So, the players in those big TV soccer games? Those are our crème de la crème. Our Mclain Wards. And that is one fit man.

Anyone can be a professional horseback rider, while professional soccer/football/tennis is one of those “dream” careers. And yeah, thanks to those dear animals, many horse pros get away with being sloppy. If footballs had jet engines they’d get sloppy, too. But our best showjumping riders - the ones making healthy livings like other major pro sport players - are incredibly fit. Enormously fit. And that trend is trickling down.

There is every potential to make riding look like an athletic endeavor. To follow societal trends towards fitness and mold a new future for the sport. Perhaps if we were allowed to look like we were participating in sport, fewer folks would assume they could get away with sloppy riding. And less prep & drilling would go on to make the horses accommodate it.

ETA: Like you snowrider, I am not of fan of anything close to skin tight, because we do have a billion dollar industry of true amateurs participating in our sport, but that is not the only option for a more reasonably athletic attire.