Anyone know of Holsteiners studs who refine? mares are Corde/ RamiroZ/ Langraf and Farnese/ Raimond/ Langraf so theyre a little big 7 heavy. Quinar & Limoncello II are on the mind.
Cathalido, Chaleon are a couple that come to mind. Perhaps Cabardino also?
Personal experience
I own the Holsteiner stallion, Lotus T. While bloodline-wise he can be considered a refining sire (70% TB blood), despite producing modern-type horses, he does not produce small. I have faced the task of chosing a stallion for these larger Lotus mares. After seeing some older-type results with “A” line crosses, I decided to stay away from that.
My shortlist was:
-Cabardino - who I have seen compete at the HITS in Ocala, a very impressive, smaller stalion with a superb mind and unbelievable jumping ability.
-Cotopaxi - one fireball of a stallion with superb intelligence, tremendous jumping ability with lightning-quick reactions. I have not seen this stallion in person
-Connecticut - a GP dressage stallion with world-class jumper bloodlines. A few years back I have shown him for the owners at Dressage at Devon, winning the Holsteiner class. I am in love with this horse - definitely my kind, where the top-notch dressage movement is combined with the jump.
I ended up breeding to Cotopaxi, in great part due to the fact that his owner, Lisa Paulson, generously traded a Lotus breeding with me. My mare, Eau Claire (performance tested Premium Select Holsteiner, and performance tested Select Belgian WB mare), who is 17.2H produced exactly what I wanted - a filly of the highest caliber (was premium at the Holsteiner approvals): correct, refined with presence. A fireball who is always in control, who loves people and very trainable. I would make this cross a 100-times over.
Quinar is of course a good one. However, Limoncello II is out of a Capitol Mother, and I do not think you will get the desired effect along with a tad too much inbreeding for my taste. 3 Landgraf’s, at least 6 Ramzes, and I believe 5 Ladykillers for your Corde mare. It would be double Farnese too for the other one.
Larimar is a a great refining stallion but does bring another Landgraf up close. I would only do this if your mares had very good hind legs and angles. Perhaps for the Farnese mare?
Linaro is also a refining stallion, but once again, theres that pesky Landgraf in the second.
I would also look at Love Affair.
Tim
What about the stallion Livello?
Since the Holsteiner mare base is so closely knit in their bloodlines, and you need a refining stallion, why not use a Holsteiner approved Thoroughbred stallion? It should provide the refining and infuse some outcross blood. Haven’t they approved several recently and already have some. Surely one or more would be compatible with your mare.
PennyG
Absolutely not. Livello comes from a very large, and very old type series of mothers. They are all large framed, big boned horses. Livello will do best with blooded more refined mares. The exact opposite of these mares.
TKR makes a good point, perhaps A Fine Romance. Coconut Grove will bring some blood, but will not refine the head up too much. You may also look at Oleandro, he is a half bred should be considered as an option.
Another one is Casiro I. He can be imported and I would consider going in on the import with you. I believe he can be imported through Superior Equine Sires. He was 58 Bonit stallion, one of the highest bonited stallions ever, he has long legs and breeds from his blood, not his sire. Again, I know, another Landgraf, but his dameline does not have the Landgraf legs, and didn’t throw it. He has produced some top mares, and that can only happen if he breeds modern.
Tim
Coriano refines a lot!! Don’t know if there is semen in the US. Another one I saw nice refined horses from is Cormint.
If Coriano was available, I would use him in a second. However, I didn’t think he froze well. Do you know if this is not the case?
Also, Cormint is the full brother to Cathalido, who just arrived back here in the States. I too have heard this of both brothers.
Tim
Thanks Tim for the insight. Is there any explanation for his own relatively modern look?
[QUOTE=MCarverS;5551274]
Thanks Tim for the insight. Is there any explanation for his own relatively modern look?[/QUOTE]
Limbus !
the ones father is Rantares - and the bigger one’s is Ratibor who needs refinement- also i would prefer fresh semen 
just for the first time around. i really like the idea of quinar for the Ratibor mare- having a hard time choosing for the Rantares mare as she could use some temperament more than conformation help, Carbardino sounds nice - dont know if i could do fresh though. Thank you! keep that advice coming!!! I dont have much time left for choosing… eek
Lordanos could be a good choice
I am a bit confused, these mares do not have the pedigree you mentioned if they are by Rantares and Ratibor. For clarification we tend to speak of pedigree’s as such
Sire/Brood Mare Sire(BMS)/Grand BMS/etc.
Lastly, if your mares are by these stallions, then they may be for dressage. If this is the case, I would likely not use Quinar. He is not known for his trot. Linaro is a refining stallions that is known for good moving foals, I would look here. Good luck
Tim
Is Linaro really a refining sire? I’ve seen a lot of his offspring that were not refined (a number out of TB mares) so I’d not put him in the refining category based on what I’ve seen.
Candillo Junior
I just bred my AHS mare by Wummestern to a recently imported Holsteiner stallion - Candillo Junior. My filly was born a couple of days ago and she is MUCH more refined than her not quite-so-feminine mommy…
If you are interested, see some videos of her first few days on my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Fl0wer85?feature=mhum
Linaro is absolutely a refining stallion.
His Pedigree is Landgraf/Calypso II/Ladykiller XX/Cottage Son XX
Landgraf is a Halfbred by Ladykiller
Calypso II is a Halfbred by a Halfbred
Ladykiller is TB
Cottage Son is TB
He is 58.4% blood which is high. I have seen dozens of Linaro’s, and their dams. He is for sure a Refining stallion. This is arguably the case. Furthermore, you don’t refine a TB with a Holsteiner, no matter how blooded he is. They are going to be heavier then their TB dams. When we speak of refining, we are only talking about refining a WB. My first foal was a Linaro out of a TB mare, so I speak from experience, this is not something I would do.
Tim
Yeah- I was going off the wrong email- I just got them in and looking at their papers saw my mistake… duh. Its been a long week… anyways the CORRECT pedigree is (Ratibor/Flamingo/ Liguster) and (Rantares/ Flamingo/ Liguster)… ok so anyways, Tim good point- that is why I was looking at Limoncello II for the Rantares mare as she is dressage type but he still has good jumping genes. And for the Ratibor mare- she is more jumper type- I was thinking Quinar for her. Any idea on the temperament of Limoncello’s? She could use some quietness- I want the baby ammy friendly. Thanks and sorry for my hairbrainess…
I know his blood % his pedigree and it was not really a question that needed a holsteiner breeding 101 lesson. I am also aware that some do not breed as their paper might suggest. I have seen some TANKS out of TB mares as well as some other highly blooded warmblood mares, hence me asking in general.
I am sorry if you were offended by my post, but it is widely known that Linaro is a refining stallion. He does have a lot of old blood, and breeds very strongly with his Landgraf blood. Refining and modern are considered different attributes. He was very modern for his time, but that was 22 years ago. He does refine and some of those attributes will also modernize. They will be tall, with very long legs, lighter bodies, and most move well with great minds. This is what he does.
Tim
