Refusing when…

[Loudlaugh12]

Hi all,

I have a new horse, a 1.40 jumper who is very well schooled and behaved. I am not a 1.40 rider. I’m a solid adult ammy who has never ridden a “real” jumper. So, we are getting to know each other at 2’ -2’6” right now. Horse was originally ridden by pros, then was leased out a few times to ammies. She’s very calm, very safe.

The horse will refuse a jump with me if I drop my eye, lean even a little at it (if I see a long one, I have a bad habit of leaning in anticipation of it) and/or take my leg off. The size of the jump does not matter—it could be a tiny crossrail and if i do these things, she stops. It’s not a dirty stop, but rather a straight stop at the end of the last stride. She wants me to sit very tall, and ride her leg into hand to the base of the jump. Trainer has no problem. Horse does not chronically stop—trainer tells me I’ve done one or more of these things.

My trainer thinks horse was taught how to jump (properly) this way, and doesn’t understand when I do these things. Makes sense to me. But my anxious brain of course wonders if something is wrong with such an athletic horse refusing a tiny jump because I leaned a bit.

Is this just what a lot of talented jumps like, in terms of feel? Does this scenario resonate with anyone?

[mika0116]

I can give more details / nuance, BUT in a nutshell…

Yes. Leased a former 2* horse of a very famous (infamous) former eventer turned show jumper.

Horse could jump a house - once left a stride out and jumped literally the standards with me (1.30m). Would stop if your upper body collapsed at all before takeoff - I found said stop at a 2’3 little stone wall where I was just riding lazily / badly - probs a weekend morning after partying with friends in LA when I lived there.

Horse and I jumped 1.10m 2 days before - I sat up bc I was scared af as he was very forward to larger fences.

He never had a more genuine AA on him. Only pros, a very very competent junior (think 1.40m at 15) and one very competent AA winning Adult Lows (1.20m) at major A shows.

Didn’t like when I rode not great.

[CBoylen]

This is pretty standard. Trained higher level horses for the most part are not very user friendly.

[mroades]

You bought a stopper

[Rumorhasit93]

On a much lower scale, my mare will slow down a gate (from trot to walk) when my mom rides her and leans forward. I think it’s normal for horses who are typically ridden by pros or highly competent ammys.

I rode a true stopper, and this doesn’t sound like it. You’ll become a better rider because of her

[LovesHorses]

Either it’s a stopper or very careful. Either way, not an easy ride. Good 1.40m horses likely have some blood and would take you to the jumps, especially on the last stride.

[Midge]

If you have to be perfect to get to the other side of a 2’ jump, you have the wrong horse for you.

[CHT]

My one lesson horse is like that. Crawl up her neck in front of a jump, and she very politely declines to jump - she can tolerate pretty much any other mistake, but hates a rider that drops forward before the fence. I think it just scares her to have that weight shifted forward…even though bad distances or being very crooked don’t bother her at all.

If you are worried though ,get a vet to check your horse over! That may give you more confidence.

[paw]

Congrats - you have a schoolmaster! Your horse will teach you not to get ahead, to keep your eye up (which actually controls your head and a larger portion of your uppoer body than is apparent), and to keep your leg on, always. Embrace this! It will make you a better rider.

I’ve ridden several (and owned myself) horses like this. One of the moments that sticks with me is being in a clinic having a refusal at a crossrail… because I got too forward. Fortunately, by that time I knew what I’d done, and we came around, jumped the crossrail, and proceeded into the interesting parts of the lesson. Another mare would refuse in an in and out if I was too forward - I came off several times before I learned to sit back (I am not the sharpest tool in the shed).

All this to say that you’ll be fine once you learn to stay back and not get ahead of her. She sounds like a lovely and forgiving horse. You’re going to be fine once you learn a few things.

[fivestrideline]

This is not uncommon for a pro ride/higher education type horse. As long as the stop is DEFINITELY related to rider error, and it isn’t dirty, it’s likely fine as long as your confidence can handle it.

I had one of these. Huge stride, could jump the moon. He’d slide to a stop in the last stride or two if I got ahead and dropped him. He wanted your butt in the saddle and your center of gravity back over his. While I was learning, I regularly had him stop in the gap between a placing pole and a jump . He was a big horse too, he just was NOT jumping if you crawled up his neck.

He taught you to SIT BACK, and to let him carry some pace. He did learn to jump little stuff from crap riding - I was a teen and did a lot of goofing off with that horse, and he was ultimately a good sport - but he jumped best if you sat down, got him together in the corner and let him flow forward to the base of the jumps.

I will say that if you get nervous rather than inspired by this ride, tell your trainer. The worst thing that can happen is for you to create a true stopper by getting overwhelmed instead of learning. And that’s okay! If possible, riding other horses that will get to the other side while you also figure this one out will help with that.

[steelerino]

This is what I thought when she said she bought a 1.40 horse to jump 2’.Read step down job.

[Loudlaugh12]

Thanks for the feedback! I don’t think the horse is a true stopper—horse was leased last to a good teenager who won everything. Plus, horse will do a very similar behavior if I take my leg off/lean/drop eye to poles. Won’t stop dead, but will lose all momentum and bink over the pole.

[CBoylen]

How helpful. Then you should be jumping 20,000 poles a day until you don’t do that.

[Mayhemrider369]

This is my horse to a T. It’s nice to hear there are many horses like this and still considered quality. My horse can be tough but he’s the winner every time if you give him the correct ride

[StormyDay]

I’d wonder if you may be asking the horse to slow down unconsciously. I see this a lot. The rider starts overthinking and stops giving aids so the horse slows down and stops.

I’d suggest riding a little more aggressively into the jump. Leg on, hands up in the air a bit, sit up and MEAN IT. You can add a little stick 2-3 strides out too.

It can be hard to ride this type after riding ones that would prefer you sit there, get out of their way, and look pretty.

[Amberley]

You are dropping the horse in front of the fence, of course it’s stopping. This is where I think learning to jump from modern hunter trainers does riders a huge disservice. The “just sit there and don’t do anything” style of riding will only be tolerated by a very small subset of horses, especially over bigger fences. It’s not safe imho to ride like that either in my opinion, I see so much scariness in the hunters these days.

You will be a much better rider for having this horse and learning to sit up, keep your leg on and communicate with your horse and not just check out before a jump.

[Aussie_2020]

I had a horse that would buck if I dropped back in the saddle after the jump. She taught me very quickly not to do that.

[EmilyM]

Sounds like you are going to learn quickly not to look down and take your leg off or you are going to lose your confidence. I hope it’s the former. Consider that this could be a suitability issue, but obviously I don’t know you or the horse to definitively opine on that.

[BostonHJ]

100% this. This would have worked for me when I was an intermediate rider BEFORE I had the mental damage of riding a stopper for 3 years.

[luvmyhackney]

I own that horse currently. If I lean the tiniest bit, he clearly communicates his displeasure.