I’m looking for advice on rehoming a very challenging horse–how do you determine whether a horse is rehomeable in the first place, and how have you done it (vetted riders, etc.)? I don’t want him to end up in a bad situation or to hurt anyone.
I’ve had him 5 years (8 now), he has a good event record, I’ve decided he’s more horse than I need. I think other competent ammies would come to the same conclusion-- this is supposed to be fun and all that. I doubt he’d appeal to a serious pro. I have 2 other lawn ornaments that are much more backyard friendly, this isn’t the ideal situation for him.
I’m afraid to advertise him, I fear I will get mostly kill buyers or people not up the task. Has anyone else placed a tough but competing horse, and if so how?
Yes and I would vet any potential matches carefully. Sometimes boys or men will be more accepting of a hotter horse if it’s gung ho about jumping.
If I ever were in the situation again, I would have a strong agreement that I would pay for euth if the horse didn’t work out, as I don’t want it going for meat. (I’m not philosophically against slaughter but would prefer to know and be responsible for my horse’s end.)
Well, what makes him challenging exactly? Some amateurs can forgive things like challenging ground manners, others can take a joke about the occasional “runaway” on XC - but most want something that is safe. Is he safe? If he is not safe, what behavior specifically makes him unsafe? Are there things he will do well and things he won’t do well? What about a change in career/discipline?
Have you ruled out physical issues? I am constantly AMAZED at what horses will put up with when it comes to niggling soundness issues… and I am constantly amazed at what people will put up with when it comes to physical issues. I watched a sale happen for $15k for a BN/N horse that required very specific shoeing and had horrible coffin bone rads that would require major injections/management in the future. That is NOT something that I would pay money for, but other people will… but then there are people that won’t touch a horse that has an old, healed injury…
I’m in the same boat but not the challenging part. I have a very nice, big horse that has little to no show mileage because he keeps getting pasture injuries that require time off. The thing is, he is an incredible mover and people always are impressed by him when he is in work. His pasture injuries do not affect future soundness, but he is past the “project age” (he’ll be 10 in March). He has some limitations (not injury related) and I think he’d make a great mount for a very light rider or a kid, but I’m worried that rehoming him would put him in a bad situation. It’s very tough and it’s worse when you can only have one horse on your payroll…
I think when it comes to vetting the person, I think the best thing to do in these scenarios is find someone who is within your social circle… someone who you might see often at shows or venues, someone that your trainer knows or networks with. That way the horse is never quite “off of your grid”. I’d sign a contract with right of first refusal and perhaps a buyback clause if the horse ends up being unuseable, something like a euthanasia contract if you need to. Even then horses slip through the cracks so it’s hard. I have had the best luck rehoming to Pony Club homes, as PC is very networked and a good PC horse is in high command even when they are in their 20s.
I am wearing your shoes right now, too. I have owned my mare for 4 years. During that time, I have gone on Medicare and had both knees replaced. I need a kick ride. Piper is not that horse. She is not an easy ride, as per Doug Payne, but I have done Mini Events on her. She loves to jump. However, she ran on turf, so if the dressage warm up is in an open field, she will take off with me. The dressage tests that we have ridden in Indoor Arenas have wonderful scores. If the outside dressage arena is near the cross country course, then it is difficult to keep her attention on doing the dressage test. She loves cross country!
Because she is an OTTB, I have a nice person, Amy Lynn Paulus, who is trying to find a match for Piper. She is on Facebook at Paulus Racing and Performance Thoroughbreds.
OP, Is your horse an OTTB?
I hope that someone has some advice for you. I do like the Euthanasia clause, although it would be a shame to put a talented horse down.
I’ve been there, I went the euthanasia route, because my guy became dangerous and was seemingly getting worse with time. I broke my leg really badly, and then after that he became difficult to handle on the ground too. He won almost all the events he entered, so he was surely talented but in the end it was not worth the risk of keeping or trying to rehome him. I did everything under the sun, vet, saddles, chiro, massage etc etc and never had much change. I gave him 5 years of a pampered life and he has that to remember. To be honest I have never regretted my decision.
The behavior is situational/environmental, my vet does not believe it has a physical component. He does have an old, healed injury, though it would not impact mid-level eventing (1 star) so I hope that it will not be too much of a deal breaker.
It is potentially a safety issue–he bucks explosively and opportunistically when overstimulated. It has gotten better over the last 5 years, but not enough to keep pace with other changes in my life. He is also difficult/dominant on the ground.
He is easier in dressage (but has still had outbursts, especially in horse traffic). His dressage is decent, he’s a nice mover for a TB. I’d love to see him go that route, though I’m sure a variant of the same equation applies (hotter than most ammy dressage riders want, pros aren’t clamoring over hot 1st level TBs).
ETA–Jealoushe, thank you for your post. There is a vote for that among those who know him and while I’m really struggling with that (I’ve been reasonably successful with him, there are plenty of better riders than me out there) I do understand that this is about the practical, realistic odds of him finding a good situation, which may not be rosy.
If a hotter horse, an ambitious Pony Clubber might be interested. My more challenging horse settled at 11. Until then, being in an open field was always a potential runaway situation. As he got older, he even fox hunted, so they can change.
Ok, that behavior begs the question: have you had his back x-rayed? Does his saddle fit?
The only horse in my life that bucked violently did so because of a saddle, that, for all intents and purposes, fit him perfectly on paper. I’ve had horses that sproinked after a good jump, and horses that tossed in some bucks in excitement, but only one that bucked in a manner I’d call violent… Violent is a pretty strong word.
My gelding bucked so badly that pros would not ride him and I got the “Alpo Speech” from several BNTs. His bucks were bad, and very terrifying to ride through as he would blindly bolt and buck until I fell off or something like a wall stopped him with enough time that I could dismount safely. It was worse if I landed heavily after a jump, or through drops. Throughout his entire life (I owned him since he was a yearling) he had his saddle professionally fit, but for whatever reason he was unhappy in it. We did not catch that it was the saddle because he would still buck if other saddles were tried. My opinion, looking back on this situation, is that his saddle caused chronic inflammation/soreness in his back, so even though we switched saddles every now and then to try to rule it out, we did not catch it as a saddle issue because new saddles did not resolve the fact that he had chronic inflammation in the muscles over his spine. Because we knew the saddle fit, we searched other avenues of pain, meanwhile the behavior escalated and his symptoms got worse… My trainers all thought it was behavioral. For a while I did too. I had several vets look at him, but it took one very astute vet to localize that his pain was across his back. He was never lame and flexed perfectly. Once that vet located the origin of his pain, it was easy to follow the breadcrumbs to what should have been the culprit all along: his saddle.
He ended up needing mesotherapy to break the pain and injections to reduce the inflammation, a long course of robaxin, 2 months of bareback riding, and a new saddle… but he stopped bucking entirely. I mean, he never bucked again. That’s a huge improvement. It’s worth noting he did not have KS (we had his back x-rayed prior to figuring out it was the saddle) and for a long time we believed he was simply a challenging horse. Turns out once his back was adjusted and the saddle changed he was a very simple, easy horse. He became much sweeter too, very lovey dovey and not at all the difficult, challenging horse he had been the year before.
Swapping saddles can be done to “test” to see if it is a bad saddle fit issue, but as I said, they are not a surefire tell-all because sometimes the damage from the bad saddle is so bad and long-term that the horse hurts regardless of what saddle he is ridden in, case in point with my gelding.
From what you describe, I think your horse is very rehomeable.
Personally I would not be looking for such a horse but there are people out there who don’t mind a “project”.
It does make a person wonder if there is a still a pain problem lurking, as @halt explained above. Or it could be simply situational/behavioral.
I once had a filly, just out of high school, that I bought as a 2-year-old with the intention to train to ride and resell. Bought her at an auction (yup, risky!!) and owners stated she’d never been started. Well as her training progressed and she then started to do everything she could in a panic to get me off her back, including running into the round pen panels, rearing and flipping, etc etc. I knew the owners had lied to me. I finally got it out of them that she had already been to the trainer and the trainer was scared to ride her, and they thought she’d be fine if she had a fresh start. Ummm, no. Super sweet filly on the ground and I felt terrible for her, but I was not in a position that year where I could afford to get hurt.
I didn’t pay much for her in the first place, so I was able to sell her for the same price with full disclosure of her background. Someone liked her pedigree (she did have a nice pedigree) and wanted to give her a shot. I lost touch with them but last I heard they had her going okay with minimial episodes.
I think you just need to be very upfront with people when you list the horse and be brutally honest on his positives as well as his problems. Might take some time for the right person to come along, but if you aren’t in a hurry, that shouldn’t be a problem.
Have you considered free leasing the horse to a local pro with the idea that if they can “fix” his issues, they can keep him as long as they want (whether by outright transfer with right of first refusal or continued free lease with provisions to prevent you from taking him back once he’s fixed without paying for the free training), if not, he comes back to you to be either retired or put down? If he’s capable of doing a 1* he has value if a pro can make him safe. The explosive bucking would make me wary that it was something physical though.
I don’t think anyone can assume that just because a horse hasn’t worked for them that they wouldn’t work in another situation. Sometimes players in pro sports were real bums in a situation and flourished when traded to another team. I have a horse now that flunked out of a few places, the last 1 of which was a situation with a few great horsemen. He just wasn’t happy. He’s been a saint with me (it took a little time)…and has really flourished!!! I’ve had others that I’ve had to move along - they just didn’t seem to fit in my system and are now flourishing with young riders, etc. Think of the horse as a teammate - sometimes the team will do better with some new scenery.
It depends on whether the horse is dangerous or not. It becomes a liability issue, having others ride a horse that could potentially injure them.
I know in my case, my horse was very fearful of people, so passing him around for others to try was a bad idea, since he would shy away from other people even handling him.
My trainer is working with a horse like this, and has made a lot of progress. However, she does worry about getting hurt (especially since she just qualified for Rolex or whatever it is now called) and it isn’t an area where she wants to make a name for herself. She did send a horse home that she thought wasn’t worth the risk.
So while I agree that seeking out a young pro would be a good place to start, I don’t think it will be easy even as a giveaway.
I think you are in a tough spot. Unfortunately, “explosive bucking” IMO falls into the category of dangerous behavior. An occasional buck or crow hop or a tendency to be cold backed–those things are rideable and manageable. Explosive bucking pretty much guarantees a fall for the vast majority of riders.
Obviously there are different opinions on this, but I personally would be uncomfortable rehoming such a horse. First of all–the options are limited. Horses that buck are not amateur suitable, so no ammies. There’s no way I would re-home such a horse to a minor, that strikes me as plainly unethical. Very few pros would have an interest in risking their safety (or even their time/money) on a horse with a known major behavior issue, but who knows, maybe there is one?
So let’s say that you were able to re-home the horse to a tough young pro who felt that they could deal with the issue. I would ask myself–how would I feel if that person had a fall resulting from one of those bucking fits and was badly injured? Crippled? What if another person gets injured as collateral damage? That would weigh on me very heavily. I’d feel like it was pretty predictable that a horse with a history of explosive bucking would do so again. What if that trainer does okay on the horse but then lets someone else ride the horse and/or sells it and that person is subsequently injured? Again, I wouldn’t feel surprised and I’d feel pretty badly.
There are many people who are willing to rehome dangerous/ difficult horses with varying levels of disclosure and just say to themselves, “well it’s that person’s problem now.” Or who ethically excuse themselves for endangering other people by telling themselves that they are doing it to “save” or “rescue” the horse from euthanasia as if that makes it okay. Obviously I disagree with those points of view.
From a legal standpoint, I think that no matter how honestly you disclose the issue I think that there could still be some liability.
Lastly, if the horse truly does have explosive bucking fits, I think that it is unlikely that he is going to have some fairy-tale ending after he leaves you. Most likely he’s going to throw someone else off and continue on a path to worse and worse circumstances. The trainer may not want to admit that she can’t ride the horse, she knows she can’t ethically sell it, and she sure doesn’t have the money to keep it, so the horse could easily discreetly end up “given away” to a “pasture home” which is of course how you politely say that you sold a horse to someone who was probably a kill buyer.
I think the problem is not the person you sell him too, but the person furthur down the line. I have one horse who is a lifer with me because of this - I bought him with some major issues - with work he is now 90% of the time a dead quiet trail horse, 10% of the time re reverts into a rearing, bucking jacka$$. I know him well enough to head off the 10% safely, the problem is no one believes you about the 10%, and I keep getting told he would be a great kids horse cause he is short and friendly, and appears dead easy to ride. My fear would be that whoever takes him thinks they fixed him after x amount of time of the 90% and sells him on to someone he tries to use him as a kids horse and finds out about the 10% the hard way. I have my own farm so its not an issue to keep him (and I rather like the bugger), if you are paying board/tight on space/funds I think it is a free lease to an appropriate adult or euthanasia.
Thanks all for the insights/ideas. A couple more answers:
I don’t think I could give him to a minor. Not that there aren’t some who could ride circles around me.
This issue has spanned several saddles, including his 2 current ones which were fit to him. It is more situational I think–he does it in heavy horse traffic (like warm-ups) or when overstimulated/spooked.
Several people have asked if he is dangerous, and while I guess that is a continuum for horses (no horse is 100% safe), I think probably the answer at present is yes, in the sense that a horse that bucks is more dangerous than one that doesn’t. At what line a horse is too dangerous to rehome is maybe my whole question at this point. Sometimes I’m like “he almost worked as a backyard horse for ammy me for 5 years” then other times it’s more like “but he bucks.”
He has been ridden by my trainers, but I haven’t put fellow ammies/peers on him. Agree that the main question facing trainers (and me too, honestly) is “is it worth it?” It’s not that they couldn’t, but they might have access to better options.
I very definitely have fears about the long haul if the next trainer isn’t able to fix it. I realize that someone could sell him without disclosure, or just dump him.
What diagnostics have you done to rule it isn’t physical? X-rays anywhere? Have you looked at his back?
Does he buck with the trainers too?
I’d be really curious to hear what diagnostic avenues have been done for this horse. I’m not convinced that horses that are explosive are explosive just because it’s behavioral or they’re overstimulated. In my experience it’s physical, but sometimes it can be like finding a needle in the haystack to whittle down what it is that’s causing him to get so upset that he violently bucks.
My own interpretation of what you’ve given us, is that he’s a pretty well schooled horse that still has issues with a basic schooling expectation, being behaved in the proximity of other horses. That is Basic Schooling 101. Given he has been exposed (you mention he has a show record) to me that means there is a reason he objects being close to other horses… I would put my money on it being physical - maybe he feels claustrophobic that close to a horse, perhaps he feels whatever is hurting him would make it impossible for him to get away? Perhaps he feels vulnerable, or not 100% capable of getting out of a situation if another horse attacked him… This is certainly very defensive behavior. Which means he has a REASON to feel defensive, you just have to isolate it. I often try to approach a confusing behavior by looking at the reasons why a horse might do them, breaking it down to their more basic instinct is usually the answer.
The writing is on the wall: he’s not a horse you enjoy riding, he doesn’t seem to be able to cooperate with the riding tasks you’ve put on him. It’s up to you to find out how to fix it. In my honest opinion, if finances are an issue (I get it if they are) use the money you were going to spend on the “next trainer” and put it towards some x-rays of his back and SI. A trainer can’t fix a niggling physical issue, but a vet can - and sometimes the vet bill is much more affordable than a training bill… and the bonus is you have a horse that is now painfree and enjoys his work.
Additionally, ulcers can really make a horse feel sucky and defensive. Even if they don’t look ulcery, or hate grooming, they can get really surly with other horses. Have you tried scoping or a course of Ulcergard or Nexium?
Like you say, it is so hard to quantify ‘dangerous.’ One person’s dangerous horse that needed put down yesterday can be another person’s favorite ride. If you can, I would put out feelers to see if anyone with the skill to deal with this issue is interested in him.
I was working with a friend’s horse for over a year when it became incredibly obvious that he was not going to work out for her. He had a serious panic response when spooked that even after a ton of work was still there. He found a non-riding home as a therapy horse, his ground manners/ground work are impeccable (I spent a lot of time on that…), and he enjoys spending time with people so it is the perfect fit. You never know until you try…
but there are people out there who don’t mind a “project”.