Rehoming a dangerous horse

[danacat]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8537244]
horses do not attack out of fear.[/QUOTE]

Horses that exhibit fear-motivated aggression, can cause death and therefore should be handled only by experienced personnel. The situation is considered high-risk if the horse has had a history of or displays fear aggression (e.g. kicking biting lunging when approached or handled). Blackwell’s Veterinary Consult.

Aggression to People –Merck vet manual
This behavior is seen mostly in stalls in which the horse feels confined in a small space that is also easily defended. The varieties of aggression toward people include fear, pain induced, sexual (hormonal), learned, and dominance related.

If the horse is tense and reactive, he is invading your space out of fear. If your horse is calm and deliberate in the way he’s pushing you around, that’s a dominance issue. Once you know which one it is you can craft the appropriate response. Parelli article.

In other cases, aggression arises from fear or the horse perceiving it is in danger. This can be from a sudden fright or previous experience or trauma. Second Opinion Doctor- excerpt.

Abusive treatment brings out a horse’s fight-or-flight tendencies, so many horses cope by behaving desperately and often aggressively. Similarly, extreme fear in a “wild” horse unaccustomed to human handling can lead to desperate and dangerous behavior. (sorry, forgot reference)

It is the same with people, if a horse reacts in an aggressive way towards you, then there is fear in some way behind it, and identifying the reason is the key.An aggressive horse is of course not the same as a bossy or pushy one. It is important in all dealings with horses to be able to recognize the presence of fear, and unfortunately it is not always obvious. Happy horse training.com

[danacat]

[QUOTE=China Doll;8537993]
I watched a Clinton Anderson demo with a very aggressive mare and owner would run and hide. Mare was very aggressive. Clinton didn’t back down and showed the owner how to stand her ground and the horse quit the behavior. I think the video was over a few days of training. Most likely you could find it on google[/QUOTE]

I’ve seen that video too. Liked the outcome. Hope it ‘stuck’ and that the mare and owner have realized their potentials.

Other posters can continue to bash away at me if they must-- I’m a big girl I can take it, my lifetime of experience with horses has granted me confidence…

…so, I still believe there is a place for this mare somewhere, with someone who has the time and the desire and the skill to reach her. A special person who would consider her as a ‘project’ and as a teaching/training experiment, one that would hopefully offer results that others can learn from, or would simply enjoy reading about-- either as a success story or perhaps a failure. This mare is not the only one with such troubles-- whatever the cause might have been.

Not all horses can be saved, that’s for sure…but often it seems like only the talented ones (who can provide a human with ribbons and trophies-- and not just a glorious hack on the trails)-- are the ones who get saved under such circumstances. Plain old horses just aren’t worth it…but the OP seems to disagree with that idea and came here looking for a way to do right by this mare.

She really doesn’t sound like she’s beyond all hope…to me either. Not at all. I think it’s more of a resource problem (who would want this horse?) than a horse problem.

[stryder]

I put down a mare who had become unpredictably dangerous. One time she was resting peacefully in the crossties during a massage. Then exploded without notice, knocking down the body worker in the process, with such force that one crosstie was yanked out of the pole. Another time she was being quietly led out of the barn and exploded, throwing her handler against the wall and injuring her.

She exploded under saddle with such ferocity that the trainer said he’d never seen a horse so intent on unloading a rider. I don’t remember anything of the ride, which the trainer said is probably a good thing.

It came down to this. I could not keep her. I couldn’t in good conscience pass her along, even with full disclosure. She was beautiful and could be sweet. But the unpredictability was like handling a live grenade. I didn’t want her to go somewhere where she could be beaten or mistreated.

One veterinarian said she couldn’t believe I wasn’t taking responsibility for her. That I should pass her along to be a companion animal somewhere. “Somewhere?” What’s responsible about that? I was taking full responsibility for her.

So on a beautiful clear day, after being allowed to free jump and be stuffed with pretzels, she laid down on the snow and went to sleep.

Putting down an animal like this is not the easy way out. It’s an agonizing, painful decision, and I would not ever second-guess someone in the throes of it.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

This horse is a huge/known liability in our sue-happy world. And how many of us have had a horse for sale and had to deal with someone who talks like they know what they are doing, only to have them show up and you know they can’t handle/ride the animal? What if the OP doesn’t figure that out in the meeting and someone is seriously injured or even dies? What pro has time and space/money for a side-project like this? Even if someone like Clinton Anderson, or whoever can fix the issue now does it, will she ever be 100% trustworthy, or will she test a new handler again in the future? I feel sorry for the staff or passerby at that barn.

I’m hoping one of the posters who know they have the skills to fix the horse offers to take her. I mean that sincerely–I’m not being snarky. Personally, I’ll pass on something ingrained/unpredictable like this. There are a lot of nice horses to take on as a project–not one I have to worry about mauling someone who sneaks onto my property or approaches the fence line to “pet the horse.”

Finally, I really liked your post LordHelpus. I still feel bad about euthanizing my elderly, ailing cat and that was a good reminder that I’m projecting.

[AMWookey]

[QUOTE=danacat;8538477]
I’ve seen that video too. Liked the outcome. Hope it ‘stuck’ and that the mare and owner have realized their potentials.

Other posters can continue to bash away at me if they must-- I’m a big girl I can take it, my lifetime of experience with horses has granted me confidence…

…so, I still believe there is a place for this mare somewhere, with someone who has the time and the desire and the skill to reach her. A special person who would consider her as a ‘project’ and as a teaching/training experiment, one that would hopefully offer results that others can learn from, or would simply enjoy reading about-- either as a success story or perhaps a failure. This mare is not the only one with such troubles-- whatever the cause might have been.

Not all horses can be saved, that’s for sure…but often it seems like only the talented ones (who can provide a human with ribbons and trophies-- and not just a glorious hack on the trails)-- are the ones who get saved under such circumstances. Plain old horses just aren’t worth it…but the OP seems to disagree with that idea and came here looking for a way to do right by this mare.

She really doesn’t sound like she’s beyond all hope…to me either. Not at all. I think it’s more of a resource problem (who would want this horse?) than a horse problem.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think that we’re bashing you-just offering different opinions. As you stated you felt the fact that the horse was well trained under saddle meant that at one point they trained it, so it must not have been like this from birth. I myself offered an example of a horse who we tried undersaddle and ground work training as an last ditch effort to see if he was just a dangerous horse. He wasn’t. It worked.

[princessfluffybritch]

I hope you have liability on the horse… Because if someone gets serious hurt or dead, they will most likely sue you for everything you’re worth. And if it went to court there are a bunch of people that can testify that you knew the horse was dangerous.

If they sue, I hope you tuck some money away so you’re able to support yourself. If you’re working , they can garnish your salary.

Best to sign everything over to someone else so you don’t have it taken away.

If you get seriously injured, you may not be able to keep your job.

I would put an ad in the paper for “project” horse, free to good home Tell them everything. If they like her and take her, you should be at peace with the fact that you gave her one last chance. That’s all you should be emotionally responsible for.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=danacat;8538477]
I think it’s more of a resource problem (who would want this horse?) than a horse problem.[/QUOTE]

The fact that it’s a resource problem doesn’t make it any less of a REAL problem. OP can’t/won’t keep this horse. She opens herself up to huge liability even if she re-homes the horse with full disclosure (defending a personal injury lawsuit could bankrupt her, even if she eventually won). If the horse passes hands, her future remains uncertain. Meanwhile, someone out there stands a realistic risk of being mained or killed. Resource problem or not, it’s a problem and the only 100% risk-free solution is eithanization. The benefits don’t outweigh the risks here. This horse has HURT people. She isn’t predictable. It doesn’t sound like she offers anything special that a million other available horses don’t offer.

She’s OP’s problem and the liability can come bouncing back if the OP passes her along, even with disclosure. The next owner might not even want to sue, it might be the next owner’s insurance company that comes after the OP even without the next owner’s consent. It could be the next owner’s barnmate or farrier. Anyone coming into contact with the horse is a risk and a potential future lawsuit.

I repeat again… SOMEONE COULD GET SERIOUSLY HURT OR KILLED. Pie in the sky “save every horse” ideals have to sometimes give way to harsh cold realities.

[arabhorse2]

I always find it interesting that the people who want the owner to give the animal one last chance, aren’t willing to step up and do something themselves.

I’d euth the horse if it were me, simply because an animal that unpredictable is unlikely to become trustworthy, and I don’t want someone else getting hurt, including the horse.

There are too many decent, willing horses out there to continue to throw money, time and effort into one who is extremely unlikely to ever become a good equine citizen.

Ultimately it’s up to the OP, but any one of you who disagree with euthing, I’m sure she’d be willing for you to step up to the plate and put your own life on the line and take this animal.

[danacat]

[QUOTE=arabhorse2;8538808]
I always find it interesting that the people who want the owner to give the animal one last chance, aren’t willing to step up and do something themselves. [/QUOTE]

If I was younger and still had the type of set-up necessary to help this mare (and the OP), I would take her and give her that one last chance. I already mentioned that in an earlier post. Worthless to say so, no help at all.

Just because some people here disagree with euthanizing this particular horse, it doesn’t mean they should be challenged to step up to the plate. Empathy is a good thing (IMO)-- especially since no one here knows for certain that his mare is completely beyond hope.

[BeeHoney]

Forget about liability–how would you FEEL if you re-homed a horse that went on to horribly injure someone? I feel like some of you think very little of the health and safety of the humans that necessarily have to be involved in rehabbing and caring for a dangerous horse.

I may be a “diminished” person because of it, but I have seen firsthand–sadly more than once–the harsh realities that ensue when people are seriously injured by horses. Do you know what happens to a family when the bread winner is out of work for an extended period or can never work again and whatever money there is has to go to medical bills? Do you know what it is like to be a family member that has to turn your life upside down to care for a handicapped spouse, parent or child? Do you know what it is like to be trapped in a wheelchair and require intensive medical care for the rest of their life? Do you know how painful it is to have an injury that takes multiple surgeries to heal?

It’s not my place to tell other people’s stories, but an acquaintance of mine had their life destroyed when they were sent a “difficult” horse to retrain. The horse had been rescued from euthanasia (for behavior issues) by a kind-hearted person who then followed some of the advice of this thread and sent the horse off to the best cowboy they knew. Unfortunately, that cowboy was an actual person with a life and a family and their lives were changed in an instant.

Obviously we all accept risk when we choose to ride or handle horses. There are a lot of accidents that occur that are just sheer chance or bad luck. However, there is NO element of “luck” involved when a known to be dangerous horse hurts someone. Luck is that you were lucky enough to be given warning before someone was hurt.

[danacat]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8539307]
but an acquaintance of mine had their life destroyed when they were sent a “difficult” horse to retrain. .[/QUOTE]

I think the important word here, in your post, is: SENT. I can’t imagine anybody being ‘sent’ a horse. The right word, I think, is ‘accept’. And once you accept a difficult horse, and agree to work with it knowing the risks involved, then you’re on your own. Those who don’t want to take those risks, shouldn’t.

And this thread has now gotten so hijacked (into another realm of morals, my fault as well) that the OP certainly isn’t gaining anything from it.

[4horses]

I would start by getting this horse used to a muzzle. Stocks are a good thing to have in this type of situation. We had a rescue that couldn’t be caught. He gashed his eye lid open in the field- I put down grain in the stocks and shut the door behind him. Got his eye medicated. I would leave your horse with that muzzle on for a few hours until she is used to it. Every day I would put it on her.

Does this mare respect electric fences? If she does then I would get a shock collar for her. If she tries to charge the fence or otherwise be aggressive I would give her a shock. The moment she backs down, it would be over. It would be a good idea to have a building or something sturdy to be near just in case the fence doesn’t hold her.

My question for the OP- is this mare getting disciplined for acting aggressive and have you ever made her back down? Obviously if you are scared and chased out of her paddock it sounds like she is winning.

Here is the reason I don’t agree with euthanasia given the facts. I knew a lady with an aggressive horse. He attacked her husband and gave him 70 stitches and he needed plastic surgery to fix his face… she paid $8000 when she bought the horse. Horse was a dream to ride. I spent one session with the horse and he was completely respectful… apparently her husband was nervous and dropping the hay every time the horse pinned its ears. The horse thought he was boss and acted like a boss horse does it another horse goes after “his” hay. Fortunately for the horse we got him corrected before he could try that again.

An experienced trainer may be able to fix this horse. Before rehoming I would try to hire a trainer and at least get the mare evaluated.

P.s. I would recheck this mares hormones. Squamous cell carcinomas can be slow growing. Someone else once posted about a mare who had testicles. It is rare but horses can have both male and female reproductive parts.

I cannot recommend euthanasia just because I have not seen how you handle the horse. Perhaps you are making a mistake somewhere. Do you do any ground work?

[sassy45]

Some horses just aren’t worth saving,there’s to many nice ones to get as project horses. Why mess with a horse who charges and has put some in the hospital?? Even if you can so called FIX her i doubt you’d ever be able to trust her,i wouldn’t want that kind of horse.

I’d rather put my time and money into a horse, i don’t have to wonder IF and WHEN it might decide to charge and go after me. I sure wouldn’t re home her even IF that person could FIX her,can never say you’ll keep said horse for rest of it’s life…things change and sometimes horses need to be sold.