Replicating pasture

[Demerara_Stables]

I’m lucky enough to have some LOVELY pasture grass between February and June. My horses get fat (too fat - even the hard keepers), shiny, have great dapples (sure some of that is just the shedding of the winter coat), and generally look great. Then as summer wears on and the grass dies off, they look less great - not bad at all, but not like they did in the spring. Where I used to manage horses (FL) we didn’t have as much seasonality in the grass, and the horses’ condition was more consistent through the year so I haven’t dealt with this before.

In thinking about this from a nutrition standpoint, I was wondering if anyone has ever had their pasture tested and then developed a supplement or added a handful of supplements that replicate the nutrients in the grass to add to feed when the grass isn’t as lush.

I had a horse a few years ago that looked incredible in the spring and then his condition just went downhill as the grass dried up. We tested him for everything including vitamin e/selenium levels and everything was within the normal range. I haven’t had any horses go downhill as bad as he did, but they do all lose that glow that they have right now.

Anyone ever do/think about doing this?

[JB]

what are you feeding besides grass when they’re out there, and how does that change, if at all, when you switch to hay (all, mostly?)

Grass is high in Omega 3, hay is not, and that plays a big role in how horses look. Same with vitamin E.

Where does your hay come from?

Other than E and Se, you really can’t test for nutritional status, you have to evaluate the diet. The body tighly controls the vast majority of nutrients, as too much or too little of X nutrient floating around in blood is unhealthy. So, if you DO see abnormalities there, it’s basically disease status causing it.

[Demerara_Stables]

I have 10 horses at 2 properties, and they are all on the same hay (mostly grass, a few also get alfalfa, not tested but I think the grass is from Oregon), and pretty much everyone gets different feed/supplements. 3 horses are having their first spring with me so I can’t speak to how their condition will change into summer, but the other 7 I’ve had for at least a year.

No hay/feed/supplements change into summer other than volumes. For instance for my 5 at home, they’re getting maybe 1 flake a day per horse this time of year, but when it starts getting cold in October and we have no grass they are at their max of 3-4 flakes a day.

Would just blindly adding omega 3 in the dry season be a good/bad idea? I assume testing vit e levels is a better idea than just adding it to the diet. The problem is with 10 horses and 8 owners I’m not sure I can justify asking them all to test based on a hunch.

[Simkie]

I was just really noticing today how crazy shiny and … glow-y my horses look. It’s that gleam you’re missing off grass, right? That “damn, he looks GOOD” thing?

Flax is a great addition for that. I use it year round.

If they’re losing some fullness to the muscling, adding protein or the limiting amino acids (lysine, methionine, threonine) can make a difference.

Vitamin e is kind of a gimme, esp when they’re not getting good grazing.

Do keep in mind, though, that the end of summer coat is just…older. These bright and shiny new summer coats haven’t yet dealt with sun and sweat and bugs and whatever else. They can certainly still look great later in the year, but taking care to protect the coat (turning out at night, rinsing sweat out, choosing fly spray that doesn’t fry the hair, etc) can also help get you there.

[Demerara_Stables]

@Simkie

Do keep in mind, though, that the end of summer coat is just…older. These bright and shiny new summer coats haven’t yet dealt with sun and sweat and bugs and whatever else. They can certainly still look great later in the year, but taking care to protect the coat (turning out at night, rinsing sweat out, choosing fly spray that doesn’t fry the hair, etc) can also help get you there.

Yes, it’s definitely the glow I’m missing. To be fair, they are for sure getting more sun in the summer, but they don’t really sweat here as it is consistently 65 and half of the days are foggy all summer long and we don’t really have bugs to speak of either, so the coat doesn’t take as much abuse as it does, say, in Florida.

[RhythmNCruise]

This is an interesting question.

My gelding’s pasture is pretty much nothing right now due to drought and he and his BFF overgrazing it. It’s never much, but it’s really pitiful right now. And yet? He looks phenomenal. Like…better than he’s looked in over a decade at least. I attribute it to starting him on Empower Boost back in early March before he started shedding. I hadn’t fed Boost in many, many years (he was probably 3 the last time I fed it and he’s now 17). I know when I fed it back then it had the same effect on him and my old (now dearly-departed) gelding who was starting to show his age. It literally turned the clock back on my old gelding and he bloomed in terms of weight, topline, and hair coat. Deep, rich color with dapples, muscle definition. Just wow!

Boost has flax in it, of course, but also rice bran, soybean meal, and (gasp!)…ground corn. It’s got probiotics too, so I know that’s helpful, but truly, I’ve never seen anything (and I’ve been feeding horses for 36 years) put that “damn he looks good” bloom on one like this stuff.

Which got me to thinking about the necessity of Omega 6s. I feel like I’ve spent so much time trying to eliminate 6s and elevate 3s that maybe he wasn’t getting any 6s at all? His feed is Unbeetable Complete, and very little of that (2 lbs a day) with KIS Trace, Omega Horse shine, extra Vit. E, and the Empower Boost (which is really the only significant source of Omega 6s…and he gets 1 cup a day).

He’s also on very, very nice hay and has been since early March, so that’s definitely helping too.

But yeah…it’s not the grass for him.

[JB]

@Demerara_Stables

Would just blindly adding omega 3 in the dry season be a good/bad idea?

It’s pretty much a requirement for horses not getting enough grass, so not a bad idea. 1-2c flax works for many, some really need a marine source of Omega 3 as it’s more bioavailable. Most plant-based Omega 3 is ALA which is fairly inefficiently converted to EPA and DHA. Ahiflower is an exception. Marine-sourced Omega 3 is already EPA and DHA.

@Demerara_Stables

I assume testing vit e levels is a better idea than just adding it to the diet. The problem is with 10 horses and 8 owners I’m not sure I can justify asking them all to test based on a hunch.

Ideal, yes, but making sure everyone has a solid 2IU/lb body weight of natural vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol, not dl-alpha) is rarely excessive, and almost always beneficial, even if there’s some E coming from the feed

[FjordBCRF]

@Simkie

Flax is a great addition for that. I use it year round.

If they’re losing some fullness to the muscling, adding protein or the limiting amino acids (lysine, methionine, threonine) can make a difference.

Vitamin e is kind of a gimme, esp when they’re not getting good grazing.

I may be biased, but even being on a dry lot year round, my guy is the only one on the barn with dapples and he has them year round. He is on flax and vitamin E, as well as a forage balancer (Vermont Blend Pro) mixed with two cups of beet pulp. That’s his base.

He is also very tidy in his stall and keeps himself pretty clean which helps too, but people do comment on how good he looks regularly.

[Demerara_Stables]

Any thoughts on how much weight/fat flax adds to their overall condition? I had a horse on flax but we pulled him off because we were trying EVERYTHING to get him to lose weight this time last year. I’d be down for adding it back in the late summer/fall or adding it to the others as well, but I have some that are decidedly easy keepers and I’d rather not have them fat year round.

[FjordBCRF]

My guy is Mr Easy Keeper .

He gets a total of 1C flax per day split between AM/PM. That seems to be pretty immaterial to any weight gain or loss. Hay/grass is where they blow up (from my experience) if it’s free choice.

[Demerara_Stables]

@JB

Ideal, yes, but making sure everyone has a solid 2IU/lb body weight of natural vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol, not dl-alpha) is rarely excessive, and almost always beneficial, even if there’s some E coming from the feed

Do you have an idea how much vit e would be in a high quality orchard grass hay or grass pasture? I know the amounts in my supplement/grain, but no idea how much they’d be getting from forage.

[Simkie]

@FjordBCRF

He is on flax and vitamin E, as well as a forage balancer (Vermont Blend Pro) mixed with two cups of beet pulp. That’s his base.

Yep, I’m really similar. Alfalfa pellets, Vermont Blend Pro, flax, vit e. I also need more copper/zinc here, so that too.

Yesterday I was walking by the paddock and thought…wait, are they WET? Nope, just crazy shiny

@Demerara_Stables

Any thoughts on how much weight/fat flax adds to their overall condition?

A cup of flax is ~ 900 kcal. My fat horse gets a half cup which is plenty to make her glowy.

[JB]

@Demerara_Stables

Do you have an idea how much vit e would be in a high quality orchard grass hay

Little to none, depending on how much there was in the grass and how old the hay is. d-alpha tocopherol is the natural form of E in forage, but it’s very sensitive to light and air and degrades quickly once grass is cut.

Commercial natural E is d-alpha tocopherol acetate - the acetate is added to stabilize it.

Most grass has plenty of E for all horses if they’re eating enough of it.

[Demerara_Stables]

@JB

Most grass has plenty of E for all horses if they’re eating enough of it.

I suspect this is the key. The grass and soil here are incredibly lush, so coupled with what they’re getting from feed/supps, they are getting more than enough this time of year and probably not enough in late summer/fall.

[2DogsFarm]

Here’s my Completely Unscientific approach:
From a tip here on COTH, I started feeding Black Oil Sunflower Seed (BOSS) probably 10yrs ago.
Really minimal amounts. I have a 2T scoop, horse gets a heaping scoop, pony gets a level scoop, mini gets ~3/4 scoop - all twice a day with their grain < whole oats for horse & pony, TC Sr for the mini.
Hay is 1st cutting orchard grass, my pastures never approach lush, enough grass to keep them occupied, so hay is fed year-round. But less hay fed when there is grass.
I get complimented by my vet on their coat condition. Even in winter they’re soft & shiny.
Right now, about 80% finished shedding, all 3 look good. In a month that Good will be Spectacular.
Like @Simkie I think you’re seeing seasonal changes.
But the BOSS does provide Omega 6s.

[Simkie]

@Demerara_Stables

The grass and soil here are incredibly lush, so coupled with what they’re getting from feed/supps, they are getting more than enough this time of year and probably not enough in late summer/fall.

Omega fatty acids fall in that same category–plentiful in grazing, very quick to degrade in cut hay.

[Hawks_Nest]

Chiming in, our pastures are generally eaten down to nothing by mid summer. For context all but one horse on the farm are easy keepers, the one that isn’t is almost 30 years old. We feed very little fortified grain and mostly balancers and forage. What has worked for us for the 30 years that we’ve been running the farm is the following:

• All horses get some amount of alfalfa cubes and beet pulp (soaked cubes with their breakfast, beet pulp with their dinner). We adjust how much they get based on the grazing quality and their condition
• We feed soaked flax seeds once a day, a good source of Omega 3s and easy to do
• Vit E - This is the big one. All horses on the farm get some amount of Vit E and we offer it as an extra to feed emcelle (comes out to ~$15 a month for a horse to get 1 pump a day). Since starting the emcelle all the horses’ Vit E levels have improved, even those that were on different Vit E supplements at higher doses
• A few of our horses get supplemented copper and zinc. Our soil is very high in iron (we make our own hay) so any of our horses that struggle with hair or hoof growth, we feed Custom Equine Nutrition’s copper & zinc supplement

All in all, we have a barn full of happy, very shiny, and occasionally fat, horses.

[JB]

@2DogsFarm

Black Oil Sunflower Seed (BOSS)

Any source of fat can add shine to the coat, even in fairly small amounts.

@2DogsFarm

Hay is 1st cutting orchard grass, my pastures never approach lush, enough grass to keep them occupied, so hay is fed year-round. But less hay fed when there is grass.

this is where BOSS falls short - almost all Omega 6, little to no Omega 3. And it’s Omega 3 that’s low in all/mostly hay diets

Omega 6 is still plentiful in hay, so there’s no need or benefit to adding more even when feeding all hay

[SusanO]

I remember a company (companies?) that sold hydroponic systems that grew fresh grass (I think it was barley). The system looked like a rack that had several levels of grass growing and you removed a layer and fed it to your horse or horses. I imagine it was pretty pricy. However there are lots of videos out on YouTube that show how to set up hydroponic systems for growing lettuce, etc, so if someone was mechanical they could probably rig something up. Not me - I can barely hammer a nail.

[JB]

Some places to hydroponic fodder, but it’s really $$ to keep up with the needs of a horse for it to have any real value. The cost isn’t about just the equipment and seeds, it’s about making sure things stay safe, that you know how to properly fortify the fodder which is not the same as the grass growing in soil, and more

Hydroponic Fodder for Horses