Reputable Breeders versus Rescue

[S1969]

@Marla_100

Handsome head and face and strong looking body. Very nice pup.
What’s his name and what are your plans for him?

Thanks; he was the pick of the litter, and only male. So I got very lucky because I only would take a male.

His name is Reckless. LOL probably a bad omen. I’ll show him in conformation but not sure what else. He’s mainly a pet for me (I own his grand sire as well). I have low level hunting titles on my others but training for higher titles is so time consuming and would probably mean sending him to a trainer…not sure I’ll do that. But I might consider HT titles if the stars align.

Right now we’re house training in an ice storm. I’m just trying to manage that.

[LaurieB]

@S1969, He’s gorgeous. Best of luck with him!

[Jenerationx]

OH MY… the cuteness!!! I love his name too.

[BrendaJane]

Lord, sounds like my mom.
Her rescues are slowly crossing the bridge now. At one point she had 6 or 8 dogs, three goats, and the rescue wanted to dump another dog on her, but one of the resident pups strenuously objected.
“No” is a complete sentence.

(and if I don’t qualify for the dog I want, I am not taking the one you want to dump either)

[2tempe]

Read most of this with interest. I have been a “rescue person” throughout my adult life mostly because there was not one particular breed that called to me. Most have appeared to have some shepherd in them. I’ve been lucky, all but one have been healthy; one came to me at 7 months with hip dysplasia. He was clearly a heavy dose of chow, golden ret. mom and who knows what else. The dysplasia was manageable but sadly at 7 he came down with an auto immune disease (IMHA) so I let him go. As I get older I’m starting to think “little” - have one now that is perfect size and temperment - clearly a dachsie, maybe border collie or something else. Smart, a snuggler. He is 27 lbs and if I could figure out some breed that would be like him, I’d think about a puppy. Pic attached, just because.

[Mango20]

@2tempe

and if I could figure out some breed that would be like him, I’d think about a puppy

Yeah, that’s the downside to having mutts! My third dog (of 5) was my all-time favorite. If I could have one like her again, I’d do it immediately. I got DNA tests on my two current dogs when the young one was a puppy, and I very much regret not finding out what #3 was made of (besides sweetness and love). Not that I think I could have reproduced that in a new dog, it would just have been interesting to know.

[AltersAreUs]

@LaurieB

Maybe Poodles mature more quickly than Brittanies? At 8-9 weeks a Poodle’s movement, attitude, and temperament are already apparent. Conformation can be not only seen, but felt . And of course, as breeder, you’ve been living with these puppies so you’ve had the chance to watch them develop as well.

Same with belgians, although we tend to evaluate physical structure (bone) at 6 weeks. That’s when you know if you’re looking at a pup that’ll be truly square or not and the angles are all in. By 9 weeks, you’re back into growth stages. That 6 - 7th week is when we really look at the bodies, though, and make the down select.

[2tempe]

My other perfect dog topped out at 70 lbs - coonhound for sure, shepherd probably, smart, trainable, goofy but didn’t EVER leave my sight/sound. Loved everybody, and everything, made me laugh every day of his 14 years. Even the day he was scheduled to be PTS, a dog friend stopped over to say good bye and got humped! Same day, he wagged his way into the vet, went behind the counter to say “hey” and got a treat. It broke my heart but he left this world happy - though not eating and suffering from hemangiosarcoma…

[Mara]

I had one of those. Lance was one of those dogs who was perfect right out of the box, so to speak. Strangers to him were just friends he hadn’t yet met. At the dog park, he got along with all the dogs, but preferred to hang out with all of the owners given a choice. Hound with some sort of shepherd in there. Lost him to mast cell cancer when he was 13.

[rothmpp]

@Jenerationx

I’m looking at mastiff breeds, white markings too big, face mask too high etc. I’m not even sure it’s a dq or massive fault, but my point was that doesn’t matter as much to me because I’m not hell bent on the show ring. Completely off breed coat color? No, that’s someone putting something in there that shouldn’t be. I’m talking more about recessive eye color, markings etc.

Interesting, is that new? I had a Bullmastiff that had his AKC championship and points towards his grand and he had a substantial white marking on his chest. to the point that his litter name was Pi, because it was a perfect pi symbol. But he was in the show ring 9 years ago. He likely could have finished his grand, but I had no interest in showing - we did it as a favor to his breeder - and he wanted the whole litter to at least have their championship, which they did.

I’m in the market for my next bullie - but I’m very particular about quality breeding to improve the parents, and there is not a ton of Bullmastiff breeders who meet my requirements - AKC parents with OFA testing that are bred to improve, not just to produce more expensive puppies. It’s been a slow process as breeders who meet my requirements often have long waiting lists. Tack on my requirements of a male, non-brindle (why is everyone breeding brindles right now?) and not wanting a 8 week old puppy in a upper midwest winter and I may be waiting awhile.

[rothmpp]

Another part of finishing a dog that I never realized until I was in the world briefly was how few points are available at any given show. A less common breed can be very difficult to get enough entries to qualify for the majors that they need to finish the championship, but the breeds that have plenty of entries for pretty much any show to qualify as a major is fully of really excellent competition so much harder to get those elusive major wins to finish the championship.

[CindyB59]

Picture today, 11 eek old tody

[Mara]

Do any of you who breed for bench shows have experience with getting the perfect pup, anticipating big things in the show ring: Westminster glory, maybe Crufts…

Only to have the dog tell you very clearly that he/she hates this dog show business and “no thanks, I’m not playing”? SO had one of these, a black and tan bitch named Pollyanna. She was all bird dog, excelled at field trials but drew the line at bench shows, refusing to stay stacked and on the final attempt, ignoring the handler’s efforts to keep her on her feet.

[rothmpp]

I am not a breeder, but that is one of the reasons my guy was not finished to his grand - he really did not enjoy being shown, his personality was a bit too reserved for the show ring, and he had the slightest toe out on one of his back legs and refused to keep that foot where it was placed in the stack. We probably could’ve eventually finished his grand, but I could not have cared less. He has several litters that were carefully bred to hopefully correct that leg, and many of his offspring finished their grand titles, including a bitch who has her GCH, plus 16 working titles as well.

[Jenerationx]

I looked up the Bullmastiff standard and it looks like it’s been this way since 1992:

Color: Red, fawn, or brindle. Except for a very small white spot on the chest, white marking is
considered a fault.

English Mastiff since 1991:

Color: Fawn, apricot, or brindle. Brindle should have fawn or apricot as a background color
which should be completely covered with very dark stripes. Muzzle, ears, and nose must be dark
in color, the blacker the better, with similar color tone around the eye orbits and extending
upward between them. A small patch of white on the chest is permitted. Faults - Excessive white
on the chest or white on any other part of the body. Mask, ears, or nose lacking dark pigment.

Cane Corso since 2009:

Color: Acceptable colors are black, lighter and darker shades of gray, lighter and darker shades
of fawn, and red. Brindling is allowed on all of these colors. Solid fawn and red, including
lighter and darker shades, have a black or gray mask. The mask does not go beyond the eyes.
There may be a white patch on the chest, throat, chin, backs of the pasterns, and on the toes.
Disqualification - Any color with tan pattern markings as seen in black-and-tan breeds.

There are also preferences or requirements for eye color, lip color, nail color etc. So a white nail on a dark toe is a nope for the show ring. Or at least would make it harder to finish a dog.

[Willesdon]

I once met a wonderful red Irish Setter: really good physical, moved like a champion, so I asked if she was shown at all. “No, and I’ll show you why” said her owner. The dog was set up in the show presentation position - tail held out, a finger under it’s chin to display head and neck - and she just wilted into a blob of utter misery. The dog clearly shouted “Please don’t make me a show dog! Anything but a show dog!! OMG not showing!” The moment the dog was released she gaily danced off, happy again.

[S1969]

A lot of dogs don’t love showing. I’ve never seen one that couldn’t become capable, but I’m sure that there are some. And definitely those who aren’t interested OR food motivated won’t have great show careers, even if you can get them around the ring.

My dogs don’t love to show but they love food, so I can make it work. But they have their limits. Two days in a row is ok; 3 is iffy. 4 is absolutely not happening. My turning 12 year old is done. I showed him in a specialty in July as a Veteran and he strenuously objected. Luckily it made him look “spunky” and we actually won the breed out of the Veterans class. But I won’t show him again. He deserves to be fully retired.

I belong to a group on Facebook for dog shows and there are always people talking about their timid dogs who were “ruined” by a judge wearing sunglasses or a hat, etc. I can’t really imagine that, but I suppose some breeds are more reserved to begin with, and then if they aren’t socialized enough and/or have a bad experience, they never rebound.

[AltersAreUs]

@Mara

Do any of you who breed for bench shows have experience with getting the perfect pup, anticipating big things in the show ring: Westminster glory, maybe Crufts…

Only to have the dog tell you very clearly that he/she hates this dog show business and “no thanks, I’m not playing”? SO had one of these, a black and tan bitch named Pollyanna. She was all bird dog, excelled at field trials but drew the line at bench shows, refusing to stay stacked and on the final attempt, ignoring the handler’s efforts to keep her on her feet.

Do you mean actual benched shows or just conformations shows in general (most are not benched). My current special is NOT a candidate for actual benched shows. She’s an introvert and only has so much “happy face” in her, after that she’s sulky mcsulky pants. In a breed where expression and movement are key, her “I don’t want to be here” stance is NOT a winning look.

So we can do a solid ring performance almost every time but after that, she goes into her covered crate and wants nothing to do with the world until we’re get home. We DID Westminster only the once, last year at Lyndhurst Mansion. It was not a benched show, it was outside, and we did great. I have never accepted an invite for her at the Garden because I know she would not enjoy having to be on display like a benched show requires.

Now if you’re just talking about a dog that doesn’t want to be in the conformation ring at all … it took a lot of work to get my little introvert to enjoy having all that attention on her. We did a lot of other activities (namely agility) to build up her confidence and she really didn’t come into her own as a show dog until she was nearly three.

[S1969]

@AltersAreUs

Now if you’re just talking about a dog that doesn’t want to be in the conformation ring at all … it took a lot of work to get my little introvert to enjoy having all that attention on her. We did a lot of other activities (namely agility) to build up her confidence and she really didn’t come into her own as a show dog until she was nearly three.

LOL I own the opposite of your dog. Confidence isn’t his problem. He’s happy as can be in the ring but finds the long days too tedious. This is a really bad quality video but hilarious because this is how he went around nearly all day…I think he was about 15-16 months. The judge asked if I could settle him down and I laughed and said “I doubt it.” He won BOW anyway.

Fore Specialty Show

[DownYonder]

Love that video, S1969!

I had Salukis and Afghans back in the day when I was breeding/showing. They are supposed to be aloof and dignified, esp. in public or around strangers. Hah - one of my homebred Saluki bitches was so outgoing and exuberant, she would sproing around the ring like your guy. And often tried to jump up on the judge to say “hi” when we did our down and back. Most judges were pretty okay with it and laughed about it. And she was such a super little Saluki bitch, she got most of her points before she turned 1 year old (including 4 and 5 point majors). She also went BoB a few times from the Puppy class, and even had a group placing one time (at 15 mos old). I thought about Specialing her - she was really darned nice - but was too broke at the time.