Oh good.
That certainly would be egg on face if they were.
Well yeah. I can’t think what, besides physical problems, would make a horse lame.
But I’m just an ammie.
It’s certainly complicated, requiring a look at all the facets; the grazing, hay, grain, supplements and then how the specific animal metabolizes all of those…
It’s about alot more than supplements for sure
I love this about Smartpaks.
.
Poor training, lack of turnout, poor saddle fit, poor hoof balance, lack of conditioning.
🤷
I just think of those as physical, …
I understood it as those things vs a genetic or inherent issue the horse has like fused hocks or a pelvis fracture
I meant physical “problems” as something the horse was born with or developed in spite of (or because of) human intervention. Maybe I should have used a different word.
Ok, but those are physical also. Aren’t they?
Like I said, just a mere ammie… So this is interesting to learn.
A genetic problem or something caused by age could be just the way the horse is. A horse could be born with a crooked leg and then develops early onset arthritis, or it could be built in a way that it is predisposed to stifle or hock strain when performing certain disciplines (just throwing out examples). None of these things necessarily have to do with poor care or training, and will happen despite what the owner does about them.
However, there are many other issues that cause lameness that are because of what people do to their horses: trying to compete at upper levels without proper conditioning and strengthening will cause ligament and tendon injuries, as will poor hoof balance; riding in an ill fitting saddle will cause back pain and a compensatory way of going, causing the horse pain in other parts of the body and interrupting proper conditioning. Etc, etc.
I just have to say…I’m so confused.
At the start of this thread it seemed like the OP just doesn’t like smartpak and was looking for a justification to get the new boarder to switch to their preferred brand….
And now it seems like they are trying to make an argument about using supplements to fix chronic soundness issues.
Soundness issues can’t be fixed or covered up by supplements. If the horse is having soundness issues then it seems the proper professionals need to be brought in for evaluation; especially if the owner can’t identify the actual problems, and evaluate supplement needs from there. If the OP just doesn’t want to use SmartPak then they just need to tell the boarder that.
No.
Also no.
Correct.
They have been, and will continue to be
Thanks everyone for your input. I’ve gotten some good information and have a lot of reading to do so I’ll be signing off this thread.
This is slightly off-topic but Clair Thunes is a very capable experienced equine nutritionist. She is based in northern CA. Clarity Equine Nutrition.
Thanks, I guess that was what was confusing me also, the connection of supplements to chronic undiagnosed lameness.
You must be very young because someone saying “I don’t know, my trainer picked it” in no way means the trainer did not discuss it with them, or tell them what it is, or any of that.
I just means that they do not know and their trainer might or might not have actually picked these things.
That answer might also mean, ‘Hmpf, it is easier to say that my trainer picked it than it is to admit I do not remember the names of the stuff my horse is on’.
My comment about smartpaks was based on your statement about how much you hate them and how you do not want them in your barn, nothing to do with the actual contents of this horse’s smartpak. If you do not want people in your barn to use smartpak simply state that up front when people are looking and put it in your boarding contract.
I would expect a horse described as chronically lame to have lack of conditioning.
Outside of E and Se, it’s not useful from a dietary approach.
Unless a horse is having real issues that a normal, basic diet aren’t addressing, or the horse is competing a high level and there’s the desire/need to truly optimize the diet for optimal performance, or there are metabolic issues, a basic, healthy, “enough but not overkill” diet doesn’t need a nutritionist. It doesn’t HURT, it’s just overkill 
It all depends on what boxes you’re looking to check, right? If you want joint supplement with these specific ingredients in one bucket, maybe this is the answer.
But what all are you looking to do? What gaps do you have in diet at your place? And then, what therapeutic elements do you want on top of meeting dietary needs.
Like, for example, I have no grazing for a chunk of the year (like now) and meh grazing in the warm months. Because of that lack of grazing on quality pasture, I supplement vitamin E year round. Generally at 2000iu per head, but sometimes higher depending on the specific horse and therapeutic need.
It’s awfully tough to call yay or nay on a supplement unless you know what gaps you’re looking to fill. Have to figure that piece out first, then evaluate supplements based on how well they address that need.
I’m imagining being a boarder googling my nice new barn and seeing me and mine being disparaged, along with my former trainer.
Wake up, OP.
Protein is critical for performance horses as well as amino acids for muscle health.
COTH and having an easy keeper were the catalyst for my interest in nutrition! I just finished three, 6 week certificate courses through UMN on Horse Nutrition, Growing/Feeding Hay, and Managing Overweight Horses and they were absolutely worth the money (less than $100/course). Glowing recommendations from me!
I didn’t say they aren’t important? You said have blood work done. You can’t determine anything about protein or AAs there. If you DO see a protein issue, that’s a disease problem, not a diet problem
It doesn’t take a nutritionist to know to feed good quality hay and the right amount of a ration balancer, or regular feed if the calories are needed, to get plenty of protein and AAs for a normal, healthy horse eating a normal amount of an average forage. Forage alone usually provides enough protein and AAs.
It’s great if someone can get hay tested. It’s often not feasible. Just know that most forages provide enough protein on their own, and what’s supplied with a feed is a bonus and “just in case”.
6% protein would be low quality grass hay. An 1100lb horse eating 22lb is getting 599gm protein from that. He needs around 700 if he’s in moderate work. Add a 30% ration balancer for another 136 and you’re covered. But grass hay averages around 10% protein, so that 22lb is 998gm. Even 8% is 799gm.
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