Retired pony, founder and severe rotation.

[ourgangsspanky]

Hey all! This spring my pony foundered pretty badly and for two weeks didn’t even want to come out of his stall, which is usual for him as he usually kicks and screams if he’s the last one to go out. Anyways, fast forward to now. He’s on a low starch and sugar grain at extremely reduced amounts and has lost weight, wears a grazing muzzle daily as dry lots aren’t available, and has had all alfalfa and sugary treats pulled from his diet. Farrier came out about 4 weeks ago and said the bone was sitting right at the surface and that he’d come out in 6 weeks and check again but it was likely we’d have to make the call then. Mind you, this horse has to have dormosedan now for the farrier to even get a look at his feet where he previously stood like a champ. I’ve comes to terms with this and am a firm believer in letting them go a little early while they’re happy and comfortable rather than a minute too late when they turn for the worst. However my BO is giving me major guilt trips about this. She’s arguing that he’s happy and still trots and runs in the pasture and will occasionally buck at the others getting too close, etc. my thought is he’s a prey animal and by nature they’re going to do that regardless so that the bigger animal doesn’t eat them. Also he’s happy, yes, and his personality is still there. But the spark is gone from his eyes. You can sort of tell he’s in pain and just going through the motions at this point in his life. He’ll look at me now and almost plead with me to let him go, where he’d previously look at me and you could tell he wanted to go to work and have an adventure. My vet is great and is on my side in all this but is okay with letting him be as long as he isn’t suffering to a certain extent.

So so I guess my question is what would you do? I’m leaning towards waiting two more weeks and seeing what the farrier says and if there’s been no improvement to schedule an appointment to let him go while he’s still mostly happy. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Obsidian_Fire]

Let him go. Your BO does not get to dictate your decisions regarding your animals welfare. Nobody likes facing these decisions, they absolutely suck.

I am with you, better a day early than a day too late.

Hugs.

[Highflyer]

I would put him down. Founder is brutal and there aren’t a lot of happy endings.

[downen]

I can’t tell if he’s had his corrective shoeing yet. If he’s walking around rotated of course the spark is gone, he’s in a lot of pain! When my pony rotated I had the shoer out the next day and he was in pads and backwards shoes. He had rotated 7 degrees in one foot and 11 in the other, and my shoer had him back to normal in a few months. While he was healing, he was kept comfortable with bute and I paid close attention to his bedding and footing so as not to exacerbate things. After correction he was sound for years. I finally had to put him down at age 24 when it was obvious he wasn’t comfortable on two grams a bute a day. So yes, a day too early is good advice, but not if you haven’t taken the steps to remedy the situation: Corrective shoeing, Prascend, Softride boots for flareups were all part of our protocol.

If you can’t afford these things I totally get that. Then yes, put the poor guy down.

[scrbear11]

As a barn owner, manager, and daily care-taker for retired horses, I feel like I know my residents better than their owners do. I have my hands on them daily, I watch them constantly, I know when something is uncharacteristic, or just isn’t quite right. I’ve learned their voices, their behaviors, their routines. Maybe your barn owner sees something you do not?

Granted, it seems like you are still very hands on.

If he seems comfortable now, he seems happy and the barn owner says he’s active, let him be. Just always know that you may have to make the decision without being able to mentally prepare.

I’ve been on the opposite side of this. I’ve had to tell an owner that it’s time, and talk her in to euthanasia because she didn’t see the inability of the horse to function and the pain he was in outside of his stall. A good barn owner/manager will know the horse better than you do. I would consider what she says.

[NancyM]

There has to be a “really good reason” to keep going with a horse or pony who has foundered to this extent. And that “really good reason” is not that you love him and he’s your pet.

That being said, horses can be stoic and tough, and some individuals can withstand some substantial physical discomfort, especially if there is some hope that that issue will resolve and be functional in the future. That is why each situation must be decided individually, to suit each individual. If you decide to try to save him, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons, and that there is hope he is going to have a future worth living if you are successful.

Good luck with your decision. It’s a crappy decision to have to make. Even if you have success, it will likely only be short term success, these things only get worse with age. Sometimes that short term success is worth it, sometimes not.

[ourgangsspanky]

My farrier has kept his shoeing exactly the same, because he’s already got bad feet and is already getting “the founder cut” on his normal protocol. My vet has been out and agrees with my farrier in that aspect. I’m not made of money and, frankly, not willing to shell out tons of money on a daily pain killer or boots for a retired pony that may or may not get better at this point.

I trust my BO endlessly, but she’s also the type of person who will watch her horses get worse and not let them go until they physically can’t move anymore. I don’t want that for my dear Spanky. He’s come from a very hard life and I promised him a good retirement and peaceful end. I just want to do right by my pony. Though with his personality, he’ll never tell me when his “time” is because he’s got a fighting spirit.

I love this horse more than anyone can imagine and If I could replicate him and make him live forever I would. And while he is seemingly “comfortable” and is happy, I just don’t want him to have a bad mishap and end his life in fear or pain. I guess I’m just looking for people who have been in a similar situation and can ease my mind? And reassurance that I’m not a bad person for considering euthanasia at this point.

[DawningDreams]

I think you’re are absolutely right in wanting to euthanize. Better a day too early than a day too late. As I’ve worked as a vet tech for six years, the worst euthanasia experiences are when the owners wait too long and the animal is miserable. It is a selfless thing to let them go before they’re completely miserable.

[McGurk]

I think your head is on exactly straight about this.

Yes, your BO spends a lot of time with him; but you’ve also seen that’s she’s prone to denial and procrastination with other horses in her care, so her view of the situation is suspect. And (not saying that this is the case in your situation!) some BOs would prefer a crippled horse on stall board than an empty stall, financially speaking.

Your plan to wait until the farrier comes back out to reevaluate is a sensible one.

There is no moral law that says you have to bankrupt yourself trying treatment protocols to keep him comfortable. Do what you can reasonably afford; if it’s not successful giving him decent quality of life, then you make your decision.

If you decide to euth, try to do it as soon as possible after the decision has been made. Waiting is horrible. Once you’ve made the decision, don’t look back and second guess. Give the BO the shortest reasonable notice so she has less opportunity to guilt trip you. Give him a fabulous day and lots of treats and let him go.

[Lunabear1988]

I think typically by the time the loving owner is considering euthanizing, it’s probably time. It’s not something most loving owners take lightly, so if it’s crossing your mind, you are getting close to the time to make that call. It’s very tough and I’m sorry you are both going through it.

If you don’t have the finances to keep him comfortable going through this, I’d make the call. I think it sounds like you’ve given him a great life and I think there is no shame in letting him leave on a good day.

My vet told me, when putting my young horse down, playing in pasture doesn’t mean much. That’s what horses do. If otherwise horse seems uncomfortable it probably is.

Best wishes.

[ourgangsspanky]

The BO isn’t like that at all. It’s my friend who I basically pay a minimal amount a month to for use of a stall and to clean said stall. I love her to pieces and I hate that she’ll likely think less of me for this, but it is what it is.

Im making myself sick over knowing I have to call the vet and ask him his opinion. I want to get it over with, but I feel like calling him before the farrier comes is almost counterproductive as well.

No matter what, as soon as I get off work today I’m going to the barn to see my handsome boy. Even when it’s about him, he always makes the struggle better. He’s the best horse I’ll ever own.

[downen]

I’m sorry, I was just trying to put the puzzle pieces together.

When I put our pony down he was sleek, healthy and for the most part, happy. But he’d been living on a dirt lot for several years, was on the highest dose of Prascend, I was doing everything possible diet-wise to help him, and he had still had his ouchy days on two grams of bute. I could see the writing on the wall.

Putting him down gutted me. We’d had him since he was 8, and he was 24. He taught my daughter so much, and we have so many memories of trail rides and horse shows. I will always remember his little pricked ears over the top of his stall door greeting me when I came out to the barn. Even my vet said he was dreading that day. But it’s done, and it was the right thing to do. He’s free from his body, and free from pain. My vet said, “It’s just not right when a pony can’t be out on grass.” He was right. RIP Flame.

My heart goes out to you, this will be a tough one. Best of luck.

[SharonA]

Call the vet this morning. You are just torturing yourself. Pony has had a wonderful life, and depending on your beliefs, may have more adventures to come in “they beyond.” I truly feel for your BO and her affection for pony, but, it’s not her call. Maybe the spark has gone out of pony’s eyes because he has to wear a grazing muzzle and can’t eat the way he wants to. He may be tired from the pain that kept him from leaving his stall for two weeks. Let him go. It is just what happens to all living things, so we have to make our horses’ lives be about “the glory days,” and not let the bad days become our horses’ encompassing story. Many hugs.

[Ruth0552]

Pony is not currently on any painkillers? I thought bute was pretty standard protocol for founder cases.

[SnicklefritzG]

Yes, but it sounds like you run a retirement farm where it is part of your business to understand when it is time to let a horse go.

The OP appears to be at a boarding barn. It is fine for the BO there to make a comment about what she thinks, but not to harass the OP about it. Even more so if that the OP said is true about to BO not taking good care of their own horses.

@scrbear11

As a barn owner, manager, and daily care-taker for retired horses, I feel like I know my residents better than their owners do. I have my hands on them daily, I watch them constantly, I know when something is uncharacteristic, or just isn’t quite right. I’ve learned their voices, their behaviors, their routines. Maybe your barn owner sees something you do not?

Granted, it seems like you are still very hands on.

If he seems comfortable now, he seems happy and the barn owner says he’s active, let him be. Just always know that you may have to make the decision without being able to mentally prepare.

I’ve been on the opposite side of this. I’ve had to tell an owner that it’s time, and talk her in to euthanasia because she didn’t see the inability of the horse to function and the pain he was in outside of his stall. A good barn owner/manager will know the horse better than you do. I would consider what she says.

[walkinthewalk]

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I wanted this pic at the bottom -sorry:(. This is my insulin resistant horse that is now in remission. Pic was taken July,2018, after his nightly shower. He loves his barrel fans.

He is a Tennessee Walker and foundered in 2012. Measuring from the dorsal wall, he rotated 8-9 degrees on the LF and five degrees on the RF.

i believe in quality of life as opposed to quantity. I asked the lameness vet about PTS’g, even though I was sick at the thought. The vet said “—this horse is a fighter. Give him six months and we will decide then----”.

that horse is on limited pasture today. He has gone back and forth between being totally barefoot and wearing therapy boots. He did spend 11 months in corrective aluminum shoes that were reset by the lameness vet’s farrier at the facility and x-Rays were taken every time. The first two resets were rockers and the rest were wedges but I can’t remember the degree of wedge.

my horse is home, I am retired, so I can micro-manage his care. I have enough money in him to buy a Dressage horse plus a year’s worth of lessons to for this old trail rider to learn to ride dressage.

my horse is now 23. He is a broke to death go anywhere trail horse with other injuries. He is a sweetheart favorite with anyone who touches him. He has earned the right to get the bulk of my social security retirement — for which I thank my hyper Type A husband who still works.

^^^^^These are all part of the complex formula that you have to decide what is in the best interest of your horse. If your horse has tired eyes and appears to not want to “do this anymore”, yes it is best to send on a little to soon:). If your horse still has bright eyes with ears up all the time and you have the funds to support a very expensive venture (without standard metal shoeing), and you can care for him every day, then give him some more time.

its a tough decision and I wish you the very best:)

.

[ourgangsspanky]

Thanks everyone. I talked to my vet, my mom, barn owner and my fiance last night finally. With the exception of the BO, everyone is in agreement that it’s his time. Vet and I decided to give him another week or so so that I can get everything lined up for after he’s gone as well as get in any last minute spoiling and visits I want to do. I’ve already made an appointment for a massage, stopped and got his favorite treat - pears, and fully plan on letting him have a day or two out of the muzzle once we set a final date for him. Barn owner respects my decision and understands where I’m coming from, just doesn’t agree with me. I can live with that.

Thanks so much for everyone’s support. It means the world as I try and pick up the millions of pieces my heart has shattered into.

[2tempe]

OP - no words, just hugs.

[high_hat]

So sorry, founder sucks. I was in a similar situation and I sent a message to the barn manager who was trying to ‘help’. “I appreciate your concern. It is not helping me with what has been a very hard decision made in consultation between my vet and myself. I know you would make a different decision but this is what is best for myself and my horse. I hope you will understand and give me the needed support during this difficult time.” I subsequently sent out an email to my friends and barn mates along the same lines.

I wish you all the best in the week ahead.

[cutter99]

In the end, it is YOUR pony, YOUR decision. It sounds like your head is in the right place, whereas the barn owners might not be.

I am the the owner of a horse that has foundered twice. He had belonged to my ex-husband, who had him both times he foundered. I rehabbed him the first time he foundered, sent him back with strict instructions on care, and got him back again when he foundered the second time. I watch him like a hawk, monitor his every move and the subtlety of every behavior, but am also prepared to say enough if it means a better death than a horrible quality of life.

Please know that YOU are doing the right thing for YOUR pony, which in my opinion, is your ultimate responsibility to him as his owner. God speed to Spanky and hugs to you!