Retraining western horse with very good brakes

[Sister7]

I’m horse shopping on a budget and found a very nice appendix qh gelding who has been trained western. Looking to do mid level dressage and eventing. They have primarily done trail riding and light arena work, but the owner told me she used to dabble in reining with him. He has lovely gaits and it was easy to get him moving forward, and he accepted a light contact.

He is very responsive to the aids (in a good way) but he has BRAKES. He got forward in the canter and I sat deep to rebalance and he slammed on the brakes. Does anyone have experience retraining a horse like this for dressage?

[pluvinel]

@Sister7

He is very responsive to the aids (in a good way) but he has BRAKES.

And this is bad? How?

[luvmyhackney]

Then sit less deep and enjoy a horse with brakes.

Brakes are never a bad thing.

[outerbanks77]

Sounds doable. I think you would need to be very purposeful about riding this horse forward into the lower gait until he understands that he is not slamming to a halt (i.e. from canter, FORWARD into trot, and from trot, FORWARD into walk). It would probably take awhile before you can do a C/W transition. Also, learning transitions within the gaits should help him understand more nuance.

[SusanO]

Yes to the training. You will have to train…YOURSELF to give very subtle aids. This is not a bad thing!

[NaturallyHappy]

We did…and this is exactly how we did it. Always forward into the downward transition (which is what should be for anyway) but this horse took more than one would expect. And if he did slam on the brakes, we kicked him forward. He is now a VERY nice horse.

[ShenanAnna]

This is why I was very happy that my last horse was trained to the same aids, and used to the same intensity, that I was. Made communication from the very beginning ever so much easier. The first time I ve ever had that congruence! For the first time, I had one ready to go! And being older, with a very demanding job, using horses to de-stress much more than anything else, this was just right. And being an OTTB with show experience, if I ever got tired of walks in the woods, there was somewhere to go.

ETA: Even with this similarly trained horse, I was cantering along and adjusted a wrinkle in my breeches, getting me a surprise flying change.

[Pehsness]

I feel you. Mine not only didn’t know how to trot (trotting was for sissies, he loped everywhere) but you even think halt and he’s bam, halting.

Which I can appreciate, most definitely, but add in trying to teach forward at the trot and it was hard.

I am a rank re-riding amateur so don’t have much to offer. But we just had to learn to be partners. I have to be sensitive to the aids he does understand and he is learning new ones. It’s a journey.

Everything else about him makes it worth it.

[sascha]

Congratulations, you have found a horse who will help you understand how subtle your seat aids can be! That’s not sarcastic. If the horse goes forward well otherwise, you can learn to communicate with each other. I’d rather this than a horse that will not go, bucks, rears, will not accept any contact, or runs away through the aids.

This may be the horse that gets you to the point of “just sitting there” and merely “thinking” your aids.

[Bluey]

Properly trained reining horses have the most wonderful installed work ethic, they are all about listening to you and learning.
Use that to your advantage, explain in small parts what you want and they will build on it and happily comply.
Reining is all about fine, exact communication all along, more than more forgiving beginner school type horses as the opposite type.

Watch some of the videos of Anky learning to rein initially, her horses were not as fluid as one with a more competent reining rider, is not as easy as it looks, why you have those times it may surprise you.

I would ignore when he slams the brakes or has other overworking moments, regroup and try again to show him what you want next, keep trying and it will become clear to horse that you are after something else.

[pluvinel]

@sascha

Congratulations, you have found a horse who will help you understand how subtle your seat aids can be!

Cannot second this enough!

@Bluey

Reining is all about fine, exact communication all along, more than more forgiving beginner school type horses as the opposite type.

[Rackonteur]

I want this horse!

And once you’ve pushed yourself back up off his neck and into the saddle, smoothed out the horn dent from your gut, and checked to make sure all your incisors are still in place and unbroken, you can start to work on thinking “Halt” or whatever you want him to do. IDK if he knows half-halts, but literally just think “Halt”.

Have fun with this guy!

And we need pics of him.

[ShenanAnna]

Something like Centered Riding, where you use your body instead of rein and leg aids, may help with this and other “differently-trained” horses.

[Bristol_Bay]

@Sister7

way) but he has BRAKES. He got forward in the canter and I sat deep to rebalance and he slammed on the brakes.

I will disagree with everyone else and say that I feel your pain. I passed on a very nice appendix for the same reason. You may be the type of rider who can work through this. I was not and will never be. Just be honest with yourself. Good luck whichever way you go with him.

[endlessclimb]

Haha this is my Old Man. Jumping, not dressage, but he chucked a kid once who said “whoa” in a line. He stopped dead. I laughed and said “I think you meant “easy”…”

If you sit back on him without enough leg and swing to indicate you want him moving forward, he will drop into the dirt.

This is not hard to retrain/soften the whoa, if he’s good otherwise I’d pick him up in a minute!

[reefy]

I just tried a horse just like this! And it’s so weird as I felt like I could not have any contact with the mouth. But I could, just super, super light or we stopped and started backing up. It was funny because I felt like I didn’t know how to ride at all. And I am considering buying the horse because I felt pretty darn safe and this horse has been well trained (albeit, western, western, western). And working trail stuff. I was wondering about retraining a horse just like this!

[jvanrens]

Some of it is retraining the horse, the rest is retraining yourself! Learning to ask with less than you think you need.

[2DogsFarm]

@sascha

This may be the horse that gets you to the point of “just sitting there” and merely “thinking” your aids.

That’s exactly how it felt when I “fixed” my WB’s shot-from-a-gun canter depart.
If I touched the reins at all, he’d LEAP & if I held, his GoTo was UP. Never a full rear, just very light in front
When I finally fixed my position, it did feel like I just thought “Canter” & got a soft depart.

[Bluey]

@reefy

I just tried a horse just like this! And it’s so weird as I felt like I could not have any contact with the mouth. But I could, just super, super light or we stopped and started backing up. It was funny because I felt like I didn’t know how to ride at all. And I am considering buying the horse because I felt pretty darn safe and this horse has been well trained (albeit, western, western, western). And working trail stuff. I was wondering about retraining a horse just like this!

Today’s reiners are also trained for ranch classes, where there are times a rider has to take hold of the horse’s mouth, so they can be guided under contact.

The important part is to train the rider now about how to ride those horses.

[pluvinel]

@jvanrens

Some of it is retraining the horse, the rest is retraining yourself! Learning to ask with less than you think you need.

THIS ^^^^

When I let a dressage judge ride my old stallion, her look of surprise, and her comment was…“Oh, power steering.”

I have known a horse that was in an Olympic medaist stable and given to a friend. I had the opportunity to work this horse. It had a mouth like a rock. Very unpleasant.

This horse will teach YOU.

@reefy

And it’s so weird as I felt like I could not have any contact with the mouth. But I could, just super, super light or we stopped and started backing up.