Thank you Discobold.
Good rider, lively horse. Doesn’t look like a hunter/jumper at all to me: far too much life and expression in the animal. Quick, grab the drugs.
Actually that video doesn’t make her look like a hunter at all. Too round, missing leads, getting strong, hitting a jump by eating up the distance, scooting on landing.
The RF Amber Eyes hunter test video is here.
To test a horse’s suitability for the hunter ring, one does the following:
-
Park luxury import vehicles in background. In this particular situation, an Audi and a BMW are deployed, so don’t think you can just secure the services of one luxury import and move it to various locations. You must show that luxury is plural.
-
See-saw on horse’s mouth until it is suitably behind the bit and behind the leg. Start in trot; when you feel the nose dropping toward the ground and the hocks trailing out behind, pick up the canter.
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Canter on in a similar fashion. Thwart horse’s attempts to engage hind end by see-sawing. If the horse tries to stretch to bit, fix this by dropping with the outside rein. When you can keep the horse in a canter that is underpowered and on the forehand almost to the point of 4-beating, you’re ready to start jumping.
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In your underpowered, behind-the-bit, behind-the-leg, on-the-forehand canter, point your horse at a jump. If your horse can maintain that canter all the way to the fence and then jump in a hunter-like shape, you might have a hunter on your (see-sawing) hands. If you’re one stride in front of a jump and feel your horse threatening to engage from behind, lean forward onto your horse’s neck to make him go back on his forehand.
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Go home, edit video, and put title card at front saying ‘Steel shoes’, because if this horse doesn’t look huntery enough, you can blame it on those damn eventer shoes.
(Go ahead, my hunter friends, fire away. That way of riding is incorrect and indefensible.)
2 Likes
[QUOTE=Blugal;7030128]
Actually that video doesn’t make her look like a hunter at all. Too round, missing leads, getting strong, hitting a jump by eating up the distance, scooting on landing.[/QUOTE]
I also don’t think she came out of the womb jumping :lol: I was taking a little poetic license 
(See my signature line.) But she is stunning.
JER - :lol: :lol: :lol:
wow JER. That was harsh.
I prefer the hunter video WELL over the 7 y/o jumper video.
Was that Kelley in the hunter video? Because the rider is lovely.
I don’t see any see-sawing. I see a soft rider who is lovely on the way to the fences, over the fences and upon landing. The mare’s changes are soooo clean.
A few times I saw disconnect in the canter but that was minority.
Not to mention it was pouring and I’m sure the mare was really fooking tired.
I’m willing to be that the horse didn’t know how to hold it all together without a little monkey on her back kicking and holding.
Every jump was lovely with no tension. Can’t say that much about the European video.
A hunter could come and easily write the same type of post concerning eventers.
All cranked up on the bridle and such.
But I guess I have a different view point because I tend to like my horses more “huntery”.
But I do think your post was oddly rough and the new owners of this horse have done NOTHING to hurt or endanger her. They are doing a lovely job which shows through in her scores in the derbies.
Hm, well, what I find more concerning is that this is direction we are going for our new UL Event-horse prospects…
[QUOTE=purplnurpl;7030241]
wow JER. That was harsh.
But I do think your post was oddly rough and the new owners of this horse have done NOTHING to hurt or endanger her. [/QUOTE]
I didn’t make any claim that the horse has been hurt or endangered.
I did say that she was ridden incorrectly, in terms of the principles of correct riding. The horse is not on the aids or even allowed to be on the aids. The horse is not engaged from behind or moving forward properly.
Dress it up in as many dollar signs and as many hunter adjectives as you like – ‘lovely’, ‘soft’, etc. – but it’s still incorrect.
1 Like
[QUOTE=Discobold;7030231]
I was taking a little poetic license (See my signature line.) [/QUOTE]
Whoops! Sorry, I’m sick today, totally missed that
Man, that is one nice horse. I wonder why she was sold into the H/J world. Seems like she would have been a nice one to keep in the sport?
^^ To quote the poetic Rihanna:
All I see is signs, all I see is dollar signs, Ohhhhh, money on my mind, money, money on my mind…
$$$
1 Like
[QUOTE=mg;7030379]
Man, that is one nice horse. I wonder why she was sold into the H/J world. Seems like she would have been a nice one to keep in the sport?[/QUOTE]
My guess would be that she could be sold for a lot more as a hunter than as an eventer.
1 Like
In the jumper videos, remember that it’s pretty common knowledge that the horse cannot see the jumps until its head is raised at some point. That’s what the head flicking allows.
[QUOTE=JER;7030210]
The RF Amber Eyes hunter test video is here.
To test a horse’s suitability for the hunter ring, one does the following:
-
Park luxury import vehicles in background. In this particular situation, an Audi and a BMW are deployed, so don’t think you can just secure the services of one luxury import and move it to various locations. You must show that luxury is plural.
-
See-saw on horse’s mouth until it is suitably behind the bit and behind the leg. Start in trot; when you feel the nose dropping toward the ground and the hocks trailing out behind, pick up the canter.
-
Canter on in a similar fashion. Thwart horse’s attempts to engage hind end by see-sawing. If the horse tries to stretch to bit, fix this by dropping with the outside rein. When you can keep the horse in a canter that is underpowered and on the forehand almost to the point of 4-beating, you’re ready to start jumping.
-
In your underpowered, behind-the-bit, behind-the-leg, on-the-forehand canter, point your horse at a jump. If your horse can maintain that canter all the way to the fence and then jump in a hunter-like shape, you might have a hunter on your (see-sawing) hands. If you’re one stride in front of a jump and feel your horse threatening to engage from behind, lean forward onto your horse’s neck to make him go back on his forehand.
-
Go home, edit video, and put title card at front saying ‘Steel shoes’, because if this horse doesn’t look huntery enough, you can blame it on those damn eventer shoes.
(Go ahead, my hunter friends, fire away. That way of riding is incorrect and indefensible.)[/QUOTE]
There’s nothing to fire at because you just sound angry, bitter, and uneducated. Um, horses other than eventers go in steel, it’s just a descriptor so a potential buyer knows that the movement might improve in aluminum. It’s not blaming anything on anybody.
A horse going from being ridden every step (dressage/jumpers) to being a hunter (expected to carry itself and maintain a rhythmic canter/beautiful jumping form on a light contact) needs to learn how to do so. Don’t blame the entire hunter world for this video if you don’t like how she’s ridden. This rider is a lot busier than most top hunter riders. Lord knows I’ve seen more see-sawing by bad dressage, eventer, and jumper riders in the name of finding a ‘frame’ than hunter riders.
Just like anything else, hunters are difficult to do well. Guarantee you couldn’t do it. Leaving a horse ALONE and finding 8 jumps on exactly the same step while jumping up roundly and evenly…sure, easy peasy. Rolley eyes guy. Lord knows that most of the people that I see eventing couldn’t do it. Its’ waaay harder than it looks and the best hunter riders make it look like they aren’t doing anything when, of course, they are.
Sorry you’re unhappy that she’s a hunter now but for gods sake, vent your spleen with some intelligence. The whole eventer vs hunter thing gets so damn old. Why can’t both disciplines realize that doing anything well is hard and takes skill?? And doing it badly is plenty represented everywhere at all the levels.
So you’re saying a hunter is “expected to carry itself” but a jumper/eventer/dressage horse… is not? Ridden every step? IDGI.
I’d take it easy on slinging the accusation of being “uneducated” around…
1 Like
Yes, I maintain that dressage horses and jumpers are ridden every step. Hunters are expected not to need that to do their job. If you dropped the reins and got out of the saddle, dressage horses and jumper horses would not do their job as it is expected of them. It’s not how their trained. Teaching hunters to go that way is actual training, it’s not a lacking of effective riding in the hunters.
[QUOTE=currycomb321;7030896]
There’s nothing to fire at because you just sound angry, bitter, and uneducated. [/QUOTE]
Oh dear.
Just a friendly reminder, this is the eventing forum. Not dressage. Not jumpers. Eventing has this phase called XC, where it isn’t possible to ride every step. The horse has to be able to look out for himself or the consequences can be rather grim. This factors into how we train and ride eventers.
Bad riding can be found in any discipline. Correct riding can also be found in any discipline. It is possible to ride a horse in a correct, connected, on-the-aids way in the hunters. It does happen. But this is not what was happening in the video I referenced.
I thought you might like to see how uneducated, unintelligent, angry, bitter me prepares my horses for eventing.
Here is one of my mares being ridden every step. Otherwise, she would not do her job, right?
Here is that same mare with a rider, in competition. I think it fits nicely as an example of a horse that’s (in your words) ‘carrying itself and maintaining a rhythmic canter/beautiful jumping form on a light contact’.
If, at this point, you still feel I’m lacking in education when it comes to horses, I suggest you take it up with the geezer on the end of the lunge line in the first video. Perhaps you can give him some training tips.
1 Like
[QUOTE=JER;7031054]
Oh dear.
If, at this point, you still feel I’m lacking in education when it comes to horses, I suggest you take it up with the geezer on the end of the lunge line in the first video. Perhaps you can give him some training tips.[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol:
The mare is lovely. She does look to have very big front fetlocks in the confo shot on the sales video.
JER - I would argue your horses rider, and the man who taught/teachers her? - ride far more like a ‘hunter’ than the average jumper-type. Or, you ride the way the horse will show its best, not micromanaging nonsense that you often see in ALL rings. Heck, I bet he would make a great hunter trainer
I worry that eventers are trending toward bigger WB’s who really wont be able to make it, or stay sound enough for the job. I mean these big ‘Equitation’ type horses that are good for jumping, good for dressage - masters of neither - not enough to make it easily within the time XC, or wont stay sound for a sustained career…important for ‘Team’ purposes. But ‘disposable’ and replaceable if you can afford the string…Commentary is lighter, but, I was strolling through some Youtube feed & couldn’t help but wonder…
[QUOTE=goodmorning;7031131]
JER - I would argue your horses rider, and the man who taught/teachers her? - ride far more like a ‘hunter’ than the average jumper-type. Or, you ride the way the horse will show its best, not micromanaging nonsense that you often see in ALL rings. Heck, I bet he would make a great hunter trainer ;)[/QUOTE]
Mike likes the hunters. He likes horses going forward in balance and riders who don’t upset their horse’s balance – but this extends to all disciplines. Also, way back before he earned all those Olympic and World Championship medals, he won the Maclay.
Even now, when he feels the need to take lessons (he’s still working on perfection), he goes to someone who’s known as a hunter trainer, although she’s also from the old school.
But with Mike, it’s not ‘hunter-style’ or ‘eventer-style’, it’s correct riding and training.
