Rich Fellers

[FitzE]

Agree you can be initially shocked and in disbelief. But, as oneequestrienne says, you can not go after the victim and you need to drop the disbelief thing as you understand the situation.

Reading some of the utter sewage on the facebook posts, though, I must say that there seems to also be a contingent who are not in initial stages of disbelief but either don’t believe the victims and/or DON’T CARE IT IT’S TRUE. That’s what’s so shocking to me. There are so many people who just want to turn a blind eye to keep their lives and livelihoods the way they’ve always been, no changes. Or, even worse, are willing to work with a predator b/c they gains to them are compelling enough and they don’t have the moral fibre to care about the victims.

One the COTH facebook page there is at least one awful commenter who has in his profile his USEF affiliation (some sort of rating). And there are who are especially disturbing in their tenacity. I don’t know any of these people, but a Duncan Mac-something and Guido or some such were on and on and on with the outrageous comments. I saw all their comments a couple days ago on the COTH article. Interestingly, they are now all gone. Hmmmmm, maybe they are reading this thread?

[Mara]

Ah yes, good old Duncan McIntosh, staunch defender of Rob Gage even though he admitted he knew Gage was guilty!
Didn’t he post here at some point? I know he has a daughter, and he said something horrifying about how he would react if she were ever to tell him she’d been molested…

[sascha]

@trubandloki

Saying “I can not believe Bob did that” does not equal “I do not believe what Suzy is saying”.

Sadly, that is not how victims hear it. What they hear when there is a veritable onslaught of people disbelieving that Bob did that, is that Bob’s word and public actions trump their truth. It’s like facing an insurmountable wall for many. It can make victims lose hope.

If we could stop clutching at pearls every time a nice upstanding citizen is accused, then we’d go a long way to having more victims come forward. I don’t know that this will happen though because we all like to think of ourselves as good judges of character who live in a nice world.

[Midge]

@Mara

Ah yes, good old Duncan McIntosh, staunch defender of Rob Gage even though he admitted he knew Gage was guilty!
Didn’t he post here at some point? I know he has a daughter, and he said something horrifying about how he would react if she were ever to tell him she’d been molested…

And he was shocked SafeSport just didn’t take his word that RG was no longer a threat.

[Carrie1]

This is so on point. I can’t tell you how hard the process has been from understanding, to coming forward with public hate, to the law enforcement process which requires it feels as though as much evidence as one would need for a murder trial, to endlessly being interviewed by male law enforcement officers (some very well trained, some horribly trained). There aren’t enough words as to what Maggie has had to go through in order to bring this forward. It is a near impossible process that requires more strength than is even imaginable. It is so stacked against the victim, it is terrifying. We need to start working to change this. This industry, these horses, our children, the barn should be the safest healthiest place in the world for them.

[Midge]

I recall one of the apologists on line saying, “No one has victim blamed.” I pointed out that someone had called one of the victims a murderer on her own facebook page. Crickets.

[Carrie1]

This is Carrie Kehring, Maggie’s mom. This is the first time I’ve allowed myself to read through all the forums and many of the comments are terrifyingly mind boggling. Since Maggie has come forward, the number of woman who are professionals in this sport, who have reached out to me to discuss their experiences that have many similarities to Maggie’s experience are a horrifyingly large number. We have a massive problem in this industry and we so badly want to turn a blind eye to it because it is so ugly and something absolutely nobody wants to discuss. It has been stunning from my vantage point being at the horse shows for the past few months and first hand experiencing that many people absolutely don’t want to face what an issue we have. They feel that if they don’t have first hand experience with it, it is not their concern. If we want this sport to be the healthiest place possible for all of the young women and men growing up in the sport we have to create a very thoughtful, open discussion.

Since Maggie came forward in February she has had an immense amount of support but also an immense amount of criticism. It’s not the ugly trolls that are hard, it’s the people surrounding all of us in our lives in this equestrian world that have casual attitudes about what happened that I find devestating. Those attitudes are ingrained in the equestrian world.

There aren’t words for how hard it is for a young woman (or young man) to come forward. A victim can’t talk to a counselor until they are ready to come forward (because counselors are mandatory reporters), yet it’s nearly impossible to even grasp the situation without the help of a counselor. Safesport is an easier place to start than law enforcement. For the most part the law enforcement process strips the victim of all control and the amount of evidence necessary is next to impossible. You add to that the hate the victim receives and the defense of the person who caused so much harm and you full well can realize why so very few woman (and men) can ever come forward.

[Saskatoonian]

Thank you for sharing that. I’m sorry for what your daughter has gone through, and have the utmost respect for her for pursuing it and to you for supporting her. I can’t imagine how difficult this is, but nothing will change without people like you.

[sascha]

Thank you for supporting your daughter and in doing so leading the way to helping other parents listen to their children.

[oneequestrienne]

From the figure skating world:
“ A polite reminder that knowing an athlete’s competition results and how they behave on TV/social media isn’t the same as knowing the person or how they treat their romantic, sexual, and skating partners. The pretty costumes, public persona, social media: it’s all a performance.”

Just change the costume and skating part and it applies to the equestrian world.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@FitzE

Agree you can be initially shocked and in disbelief. But, as oneequestrienne says, you can not go after the victim and you need to drop the disbelief thing as you understand the situation.

Reading some of the utter sewage on the facebook posts, though, I must say that there seems to also be a contingent who are not in initial stages of disbelief but either don’t believe the victims and/or DON’T CARE IT IT’S TRUE. That’s what’s so shocking to me. There are so many people who just want to turn a blind eye to keep their lives and livelihoods the way they’ve always been, no changes. Or, even worse, are willing to work with a predator b/c they gains to them are compelling enough and they don’t have the moral fibre to care about the victims.

This. Exactly this. After watching a certain group of well known figures in sport (some well known locally, some nationally)… it’s really clear to me that they are NOT in the initial stages of disbelief. Nope. They are actually trying to influence opinion about the validity of charges against certain abusers in sport, and SafeSport itself.

[oneequestrienne]

Yup

[skydy]

I’m glad you came here to tell us about your daughter’s experience . I hope you find this forum a comfortable place to interact.
The dismissive reaction that many people in the horse world have to the abuse of young people is horrifying to most of the members here. I’m so sorry that there are so many people who don’t understand how hurtful the behavior of adults can be to young people. I don’t understand how they can be so ignorant.

Hopefully times are changing. In the meantime all we can do is to support the victims of these predatory people and call out the perpetrators.

I admire your daughters strength and that of your family. Hang in there. There are multitudes that wish you well.

[Bethe_Mounce]

As a survivor of sexual abuse in the work place, getting folks to even acknowledge it happened was an abhorrent experience. Just because x didn’t happen to you with that person, doesn’t mean x did not happen at all. I hesitated to come forward because I was so sure no one would believe me. I was right. I wasn’t believed at first. He was a pillar of the community. Yeah, well, his pillar of the community schtick didn’t wash with me, I was in my 30’s and I was not going to shut up once I started talking. It just took me a long time to talk. The shame and guilt was all consuming, because I blamed myself for allowing x to happen. I told no one, no family members, no colleagues, no one, until one day I snapped, and I told our HR Director who, at first, didn’t believe me. There were no real consequences to him. He was not fired. However, I know, at all times, where he is. He is thousands of miles away from me. This was 30 years ago, times were different. Laws were different. I applaud Maggie for speaking up and anyone else who came forward. No matter who the perp (s) is, or how well you know the perp, or that the perp did nothing to you, DOES NOT EVER mean it never happened at all. Yes, it did. I wish Maggie and her family and all the survivors only the best as they navigate this. I hope justice is served. Swiftly.

[jvanrens]

Beautifully written. Thank you for sharing. Hopefully some of your words will get through to the people who write or speak without thinking of what their words might mean to someone who has gone through something like your daughter. I wish you all the best and the strength you will need going forward.

[Bogie]

I am sorry if you are leaving the forum because your voice – and your daughter’s – are important, valid and need to be heard.

A teammate of my daughter (different sport) was groomed by their coach and they started a sexual relationship before she turned 18. He was a great coach, very influential in his sport, and extremely charming to the parents. When my daughter first came to me with her suspicions about the extent of his relationship with this girl, my first response was that he wouldn’t be so stupid. He sure fooled me.

After it all came out, I was shocked by the parents who said things like, “well that girl has always dated older men. she’s more mature.” I would have personally made it impossible for him to repeat his actions with another girl had he touched my daughter. I was amazed by how many made excuses for him.

[FitzE]

That is as shocking as it is repulsive. Honestly, given his staunch support of these three men combined with his “philosophical” ravings about menarche and the age of consent - he’s what I would call a “person of interest”. What a morally bankrupt, depraved individual he must be. Sick, sick, sick.

[Scribbler]

So in case any of the more recent posters have missed the memo.

It is illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, especially an adult in a position of authority. The repercussions include suspension from USEF and criminal charges.

It does not matter if the adult seduced the minor, groomed the minor, or assaulted the minor. It’s still illegal. Period.

We do not need to know what the minor thought was happening, what pressures were used, etc. in order to know that the adult broke the law.

The law takes as a starting point that minors cannot give meaningful consent, especially in situations where the adult partner is in a position of authority. The minor may agree to do something with whatever degree of willingness at whatever point, but it cannot be understood as meaningful consent because they are a teenager or a child. We also don’t let minors sign contracts.

That’s because teens can be coerced, bullied, or manipulated into doing things against their better judgement especially by adults in authority that they like and trust. This is true of the smartest and most “mature” teens. They are not yet adults. This is why the law protects them.

I find it mind-boggling that a 61 year old man has not got this memo yet. You just cannot sexually exploit teen age girls anymore and get away with it.

It is the responsibility of the adult in the relationship to not sexualize things and not let things even start to tend that way. Period. It isn’t that hard to do if you are an ethical and decent human being.

[skrosenthal]

At least according to the statement from her lawyers, that is what happened. Maggie didn’t come forward to Safesport herself, she agreed to answer questions and participate in the process after someone else raised it.

[vxf111]

It never ceases to amaze. It doesn’t matter if you like to get drunk, it doesn’t make it ok for a man to rape you. It doesn’t matter if you dress older than you look, a child can’t consent to sex with an adult and it is rape. It doesn’t matter if that child thinks the adult man is her boyfriend or will marry her or if she’s independent with an apartment or even if she enjoys it/loves him. An adult man having sex with a minor child is rape. No need to worry about the circumstances—- thats the whole point of strict liability. A middle aged man having sex with a minor is rape if they’re on an elephant or like crustless sandwiches or wore green last Tuesday. Period.