To make matters worse, in the late 1980’s, both of these people worked for a trainer that was later permanently banned in horse killings for insurance that was such a scandal at the time, and took a lot of people down.
Well, that sure points an arrow right at the happy couple. Big red flag right up front to think an association with a horse killing trainer is something to brag about.
Well… a lot of people continue/continued to ride with the trainer in question, and buy horses from him, even after he plead guilty in federal court connection with insurance fraud and the horse killings in the mid 90’s. I think he was actually still doing clinics as of a few years ago.
People who actually clinic with some of these notorious folks (didn’t GM also recently do a clinic or two?) - I find it so bizarre and pathetic. They killed horses and molested children… just pick a different clinician for goodness sakes! Maybe there is some sort of degenerate appeal I don’t quite grasp about riding with someone on a verboten list… 
Careful careful… forum rules.
You don’t think J Campf should be reported? Oh brother…
Oh - I am not arguing on that. But it requires first hand knowledge. Same with naming names on the forums. Or, names have to already be part of the public record
GREAT ADVICE!!!
At no point did I ever say or insinuate that I expect servitude. Also, the “electrical company” is not in any way equivalent to “any other personnel hired on a consulting basis,” not really sure where you’re getting that but ok.
Maybe you haven’t had enough exposure to the American system that is flooded with common trash, drunks, crooks, felons and general dirt bags who hang their shingle out and call themselves “trainers.” We have quite a few of these, though I don’t think they’re a majority. With the wisdom of experience I now can spot them coming a mile away and avoid. But yes, when I do encounter one my presence often makes their life difficult. On the other hand, I have many long-standing, mutually supportive relationships with trainers across the US from Olympic medalists through to young riders who just transitioned to pro; all of whom I value deeply. All of whom lead with skill and professionalism.
Don’t stoop beneath your dignity by being just another woman who’s “easy to work with.” Life’s too short to tolerate human garbage like Rich Fellers, George Morris and so many other losers at various levels of horsey food chain.
I’m so sorry friend. Sending you and your family my love and support.
To me it sounds like she does have quite substantive first hand knowledge? I hope the comment is allowed to stand.
“Supplicant” is perfect honestly. As a young kid from a non-horsey family we went through hell with trainers, we didn’t know any better! My poor mom just agonized over so many awful situations, unfair treatment that we didn’t even know was unfair because we though it was just part of “the horse world.” We got gouged and my family paid money they sometimes couldn’t really spare to meet the ever expanding financial demands of a trainer who, in retrospect, was nothing more than a chain-smoking drunk. I think part of the reason I go so scorched earth on these kinds of trainers is that it’s some sort of subconscious revenge for what my childhood trainer put my mom through. I’ve learned a lot about libel and slander, mainly that it’s nearly impossible to prove damages and most trainers are too broke to pursue you anyway. But, on the flip side I’ve also seen many young up and comers who are nothing but class and I will go out of my way to help them build their client base, will bend over backwards with intros, marketing help, etc. I feel like if we as riders could collectively agree that will tolerate exactly zero bad behavior from trainers we’d have a much better sport.
In most jurisdictions, the truth is a defence to libel and slander. A judge may choose to believe you, and other witnesses, or the individual allegedly defamed.
If you have facts, and sources for said facts, you are unlikely to run into trouble. Especially when expressing your opinion or sharing your experience.
There seems to be too high of a tolerance overall in the horse world for professionals who misbehave, whether they’re trainers or other types of horse professionals who spend time in barns where there might not be many witnesses around.
I once asked my very good, very reasonable farrier if he could recommend a massage therapist for my horse. He provided a name, but immediately followed it up with “but make sure you’re not alone in the barn when he comes”. I was horrified that someone who is known not to be trusted alone with women is making a successful career of visiting barns in an industry where women are often alone in isolated areas.
If you have firsthand knowledge of a violation you should report that to SS, even if the events are old. Even if you think the victims signed an NDA. Even if you believe nothing will come of it. You should still report what you do know. If we all just assume it’s futile, nothing WILL happen.
I think VHM hit the nail on the head. How can an NDA be enforceable if it is preventing you from reporting a crime?
They might have structured it so that the victims will be required to return the private settlement funds in the event the NDA is violated.
This is a key reason why a lawyer should be consulted. Hypothetically, if a 3rd party with direct knowledge of past events involving either the 14 or the 19 year old student, and a prominent coach abusing his position of power and engaging in illegal/unethical sexual activity with the teenaged student/s… well… if a 3rd party reported it, and then SafeSport contacted the alleged victim and the victim cooperated with the investigation… could attorneys for the unethical coach REALLY try and penalize the victim and claw back private settlement money?
It seems to me like that would be a tricky thing. If attorneys for the coach in this situation DID try to go after the alleged victim and claw back settlement funds… what position would USEF take on this issue? Would they continue to welcome the coach’s wife as a valued and respected member of multiple key committees? Because that seems VERY contradictory to me.
Perhaps USEF should privately encourage these long time USEF members and committee chairs to just release any and all past students from these alleged NDAs… and to allow the SafeSport process to play out, unimpeded, if a report is made about these matters…
On the other hand, if people like this wanted to avoid SafeSport related penalties, and to protect their business interests, they very easily MIGHT just offer a 6 figure settlement to former students with whom SOMETHING untoward happened, in exchange for signing an NDA, and explicitly agreeing NOT to participate in a SafeSport investigation.
Soooo… if that was hypothetically an issue, would the existence of these sorts of NDAs, in and of themselves, be evidence of a violation of SafeSport code? I mean… think about it. No coach or pro that is actually sincerely agreeing to abide by SafeSport rules should have any reason… ever… to request a current or prior student sign an NDA like this. Nor should a SafeSport compliant coach threaten a prior student with financial and legal penalties for cooperating in any SafeSport investigation…
Just my thoughts. There are MULTIPLE real life attorneys on these threads though, and I’m curious how they interpret this ‘hypothetical’ situation involving prior students being bound by NDAs…
This is a question of contract interpretation which is a matter of state law. We don’t know what law applies to these hypothetical NDAs. So this is an impossible question to answer in the abstract.
While acknowledging none of us have seen these NDAs, I’m going to go out on a limb and say I’m pretty confident a lawyer could get the NDA voided.
Courts take a very dim view of contracts that are contrary to public policy, and I don’t think anything could be more against public policy than covering up sexual assault. Add in the factor that the victim was likely a minor when the NDA was signed and therefore not legally competent to sign contracts. Highly questionable whether her parents were legitimately representing her interests if they signed a contract covering up a crime.
The victim (or even a third party) could start by reporting it to the police. This would allow the victim and other witnesses to be subpoenaed, which would give them cover if the perpetrator raised the issue of the NDA (how could he do this without making himself look worse? The NDA looks like an admission of guilt).
This is one reason why it might be beneficial for SafeSport to have subpoena power. If SafeSport gets a tip about sexual misconduct but the victim and key witnesses refuse to cooperate, they really can’t pursue the case. A subpoena gives victims and witnesses the ability to help SafeSport’s investigation while saying, “I had no choice but to cooperate.”
These are thoughts off the top of my head. Curious what other legal types think??
That’s a really interesting point, about the potential benefit of SafeSport having subpoena power…
This is an astute point. Most NDAs I have signed for business reasons indicate that you are able to disclose if subpoenaed.
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