I asked at the USHJA convention a couple of years ago during the trainers certification meeting, " is there a ’ desertification ’ process for people that suck for whatever reason? ". I was met with slack jaws and a no!
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Bless you for saying all of this.
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I thought LA Times gave you a few free articles. Maybe try googling Thacher School sex scandal.
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Ok, I was overly optimistic about progress in schools. Very sorry to hear about all that.
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Apparently not.
That seems to be a trend.
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind a one-off 50 cent charge for single articles, but regional newspapers want you to subscribe, and that’s just not happening for most folks outside the area.
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Thanks–found it in the NYT.
Well, I’m insulted.
I’m a professional, I have a BA, I am literate, and I support safesport. I have defended it to many of my contemporaries. I have jeopardized a friendship with someone who is a past employee of RF, and is in denial that he is a predator. I teach kids, and I want to punch anyone who uses the hero-worship aspect of being a trainer to access prey.
Some/MOST of us are NOT at all like you describe. We do this because we love horses, have a drive to somehow make it work financially, and work hard to do it within the perimeters of living an ethical life.
And yes. There are really shitty people who have set up their program as a perfect platform for being predatory. I talk to the parents about this, and warn them. I also talk to the kids about it when they are about 16. That may be a bit late, but I don’t feel confident about having the conversation before then.
So, could you please direct your comments to those assholes specifically, and not me? I agree with everything you say, and then you blanket me in the same big layer of shit as those fuckers.
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If you go further down the rabbit hole at the NYT, you will find this haunting article:
For anyone who doubts the trauma and long-term impact that sexual predation has on vulnerable children, they should read it. When the George Morris scandal broke, there were many who publicly discredited one of those who testified against Morris because the boy had turned to drugs and alcohol – with no empathy toward a young man who was left with guilt and shame. Sadly, what happened at Horace Mann has been repeated at many prep schools across the country. Only now are these abuses coming to light.
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Let’s be honest-- sexual predators are in EVERY situation where children can be groomed. Always have, and sadly, I fear, always will be. I am not defending any one of them just pointing out that it is our duty as adults to be aware of the signs (hello, SafeSport training! or your own industry’s version–educators nodding at that!) and ACT if we suspect anything. I am a mandatory reporter, and have done so a few times over my career in education. The predators who groom children are frighteningly good at it, and at hiding it from everyone around them. I’ve watched the aftermath of a local school custodian’s molesting of a child in his care and its effects on our community-- the same “no way he could have done it!” and “of course he did!” comments from those close to him and the victim.
I hope more adults in sports, not just equestrian, will open their eyes, get training, and pay attention. Parents need to be more situationally aware of their kids in whatever activity they place their kids-- it’s stunning to listen to my students talk about how little they are supervised by parents in so many activities!
My heart goes out to Carrie- you are brave and I thank you for speaking out so eloquently on this.
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And just this morning I read a letter to the editor of the Boston Globe about the Duxbury High hockey coach (but more broadly about the system).
" After reading about the accusations of abusive behavior against since-fired Duxbury hockey coach John Blake (“Parents say they had raised alarm on coach,” Page A1, June 17), I could not help but think that in high school athletics, we have a team model established in the early 1900s that promotes obedience as an attribute and the medieval adage “children should be seen and not heard” as its North Star. These twin foundational pillars for so-called educational athletics are the table setters for abuse.
This sports culture does not even allow world-class Olympic gymnasts and swimmers to question adults who control them, so what hope is there for an average high school athlete?
–Mitch Lyons "
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Wow. My husband and I were talking about the issues with youth hockey abuse reported in the Boston Globe recently. We have a lot of family in that area, and my husband is a lifelong hockey lover. Though only ever a pond hockey/adult rev league player. Sadly, the ponds don’t freeze hard enough here in Virginia for him to pursue it anywhere close.
He’s of the opinion that the culture of sexual abuse in hockey is multigenerational now. He was hearing about it in the 90’s from young friends who played much more seriously than he did as teens. You have adult male hockey coaches now who came up in that era… and yes… some of them are sadly now involved in abusing players. Please don’t misunderstand… I am not at all saying that ALL victims of sexual abuse go on to abuse others. Certainly not. But… some clearly do. When you see multigenerational patterns of sexual abuse involving people in certain trusted roles… like coaches (this is clearly happening in some sports now), or like Catholic priests (it’s definitely a multigenerational issue with priests going back decades… and there definitely are Catholic priests who have been implicated in abuse cases, who were themselves abused by other priests when they were younger…) Well - once you see these multigenerational abuse patterns in specific societal cohorts… it’s clear serious efforts at reform and change are necessary. SafeSport in athletics is one such effort.
@Calvincrowe is right though - where there is a supply of victims, you will always find predators. A sad reality.
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And in this area, girls’/womens’ ice hockey is becoming increasingly popular, as well.
I believe some of the recent reports were about a male coach of a girls’ program.
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This was the Boston Globe article my husband and I were discussing this AM… the scope of the abuse problem in hockey is really stunning and sad.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/12/sports/safesport-massachusetts-youth-hockey/?outputType=amp
Parents have really started speaking up to one another, however, and speaking out. It seems like that has made a difference in a few cases. We could learn from this in equestrian sports.
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In almost every state the working student relationship (not being paid minimum wage and OT) violates wage and hour laws. It’s kind of shocking no one has been sued for it after the fact…
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To me this misses the mark on what needs to happen. This is saying our kids need to change not that the predators need to be driven out. I saw a meme the other day on IG that said, “maybe she’s not dressed like a slut, maybe your thinking like a rapist.” At some point, and I think here parents and horse owners (especially those that don’t ride) are critical to driving out the bad. Our kids shouldn’t have to change from a sport they love (and I do think riding is special because of the human/equine connection and learning to care for another living being).
Sexual predators are in every sport. The equestrian community just seems to be much more willing to turn a blind eye, or at minimum be apathetic.
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And even if she is dressed provocatively, if you have so little self-control you can’t keep your hands to yourself, that’s your problem and should not be hers. Consider walling yourself into a cave.
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My point wasn’t that any parent or child NEED to leave a sport because of prevalent abuse issues.
My point was that, practically speaking, many will limit their involvement in certain sports when these abuse issues fester, unaddressed, for years and years, and when there is a vocal culture within the sport in terms of coaches speaking up in defense of abusers.
Carrie had mentioned the stunning apathy of many folks in our sport in the wake of revelations about Rich’s abuse of Maggie. It’s hard to change the culture of a sport when apathy about this issue is so prevalent.
So my point about parents steering away from the sport was to make a different case for why apathetic professionals SHOULD care more. Some of them are clearly focused entirely on their own businesses surviving. If the supply of future clients shrinks more, because less young athletes pursue equestrian sport… guess what? That’s a business problem for them. Every pro in this sport requires clients to have a viable business model… unless they are independently wealthy, entirely self funded, and not really a professional in the commonly understood sense of the term.
I hope that makes more sense.
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It does make more sense, thank you, but the situation still frustrates me. How do we end the apathy so that our kids don’t have to give up something they love because people don’t care about significant and destructive issues?
I live in Oregon so the Rich issue is a particularly big issue. I’ve been relieved that so many seem to believe Maggie, despite their “hero” being the bad guy.
But I still see the apathy. I asked a rider, another adult ammy, who I really like, how she could ride at another barn where the male trainer (not Rich but mentioned many times on this thread as having been a known predator) could ride with that trainer. He response was that he went through a serious alcohol problem when those situations occurred (about 10 years ago), he’s become sober since, and she’s seen no indication of anything similar happening in the years she’s ridden there so there is no current danger to girls in the program.
How do we make the industry better when there is such a willingness to forgive and forget child molestation? I don’t have an answer. I do think SafeSport training needs to be given to the kids themselves though and I don’t understand why its not. But until adults are willing to–like you say move barns and vote with their feet–nothing will meaningfully change. And as a mom of a 15 year old daughter, that’s very disheartening.
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Right and nobody does anything because that’s the norm and if you question it you’re the jerk whose being ungrateful for the opportunity to provide free child labor.
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Thanks for sharing your personal experiences on the ground from. Oregon, @BITSA .
I’m with you… the apathy is disheartening.
It’s incredibly frustrating to hear that people are still making excuses for sexual predators, and claiming it has anything to do with a drinking problem. People need to get educated on these issues… SERIOUSLY. Stats regarding the number of adult American males who will struggle with alcohol or drug abuse at some point during their lives? Those stats are off the charts. The numbers are in the tens of millions.
How many adult males in their 40’s also have sex with 14 year old students?
Uh… thankfully… far fewer. Far far fewer. Those who are caught for engaging in behavior like that? They get put on sex offender registries and tracked for years abd years, if not for life.
So why would we have laws in MANY MANY states putting these guys on public sex offender registries for life?
Oh. Because statistics indicate these guys routinely re-offend. It’s a compulsive behavioral problem. The only thing being drunk had to do with it, is that predators who are drunk are more sloppy in terms of covering up their tracks. They get caught more easily than clever sober predators…
Study after study shows that rehab of one kind or another makes next to ZERO difference when it comes to to changing the behavior of sexual predators. That’s a fact. This issue has been studied at length for decades.
People who still ride in a program with a known predator need to look in the mirror, and be honest with themselves about who and what they are supporting. They are supporting a man who had sex with a vulnerable 14 year old when he was in his 40’s. That is a sick sick thing. By definition… he’s a predator. Tigers don’t change their stripes. Look at the case of Rob Gage. Look at Rich. These guys continue to do this stuff, into their 60’s. Especially if surrounding people consciously stay on the sidelines and act like 40 year olds engaging in sexual activity with 14 year olds can be explained away as something that is no longer a concern because he got sober…
I don’t even know what to say anymore to people who can’t be bothered to care about such things. To the folks who have spoken up on these threads, Facebook, in person, to SafeSport investigators, and to law enforcement… I say THANK YOU. Thank you for being part of making things better for victims and young vulnerable people in the sport. Keep speaking up.
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