Rich hay = grumpy, aggressive horse?

[zelle]

My 6 year old mare has always been a little high strung (I’ve had her 13 months). She has been scoped and treated for ulcers (Grade 1) once. I now use Gastroguard whenever I see her get sensitive to saddling. She’s been on it this time for 21 days straight. One tube per day. But she’s being really aggressive in the stall (raking the bars with her teeth when I walk by with another horse), lunging at her neighbor through the bars, being aggressive towards her pasture mate who used to be the boss of her.

She still loves being groomed as hard as physically possible. But will sneak attack me when girthing. She’s pretty sly and deadly. Has caught me totally off guard twice. Once with her teeth. And once with a really agile hind leg swoop forward! And it’s always when I am being super nice and thoughtful and careful. If I am just “wham bam thank you m’am” I fare better.

I noticed she is putting on weight. And that the behavior change coincides roughly with the new lot of hay that came in. It’s much richer than my last load of T/A . I’ve had to reduce the feed across the barn. Everyone is getting a bit fleshy. No one else is getting grumpy. My mare is putting on weight in her belly and topline. She looks stunning really. Just a bit heavy on her lovely fine frame. Anyway the changes for her have been the hay and less exercise. I noticed she was getting testy so I put her on daily GG and reduced her work load. And she’s definitely worse. I’m reluctant to scope because that just means more GG if she has them and I’m already doing that. I recently changed her to a feed that is for horses getting rich hay. Not sure a week is long enough to notice a difference.

I guess I am just wondering if anyone else had rich hay or rich feed cause a horse to be grumpy? She isn’t any more or less spooky. But she is more tense under saddle and very angry on the ground with humans and horses (unless she’s getting groomed - she loves that so very much). I also have her on Nupafeed for the magnesium for the last couple months. She isn’t the least bit mareish, I can’t even tell when she’s in heat.

[Scribbler]

Sounds like physical pain. It could be ulcers or something unrelated to hay. If you want to rule out hormones you could put her on a month of Regumate.

[B_and_B]

If you have had to cut the hay because it is rich, is she going longer without food? I’ve noticed that my young gelding (3) really pitches a fit about being left for a long (i.e. more than three hours) time without something to nibble on. As long as he can nibble, he is fine.
I have purposefully ended up buying clean, but weedy, stalky hay!!

[SLW]

You mentioned she is getting less exercise. Is she stalled and if so, how much turnout does she get? What amount of grain is she getting?

[Bristol_Bay]

Yes, absolutely. My farrier loves my horse, but when I moved him to a retirement place that fed alfalfa and 4-way, he was a monster. I couldn’t lead him around. He tried to kick the farrier there.

Moved barns, cut down on alfalfa and added grass hay, different horse completely.

I feed extra timothy pellets and rice bran to keep his weight up.

[Dutchmare433]

It is probably worth scoping in this case to see what kind of ulcers you’re dealing with. Gastrogard will not treat glandular ulcers. With change in hay I would be investigating the hind gut as well.

[atr]

I’ve been away from the barn for several weeks. Apparently they had a new load of hay in while I was away which has a much higher alfalfa content. After 4 days on it, my spicy but usually predictable horse dumped the very competent working student and went cavorting off around the property…

They took him off it and he’s back to his normal self.

I also wonder in your case OP whether it might be hormonal. All the young mares in the barn are behaving badly at the moment with that last heat of the year.

[ladipus]

The hay could likely be higher in starch and sugar which could equate to a grumpier horse if ulcers and metabolic issues are a concern

[zelle]

She goes out all night - more than 12 hours generally. She gets 1.5 lbs feed 3x daily. Warmblood. I use a large slow feed haynet inside so that she doesn’t ever run out. In turnout, I supplement with a fescue that I think I’ll start using in her haynet.
Thank you everyone for helping me think about this!

[starsandsun]

It doesn’t necessarily follow. Recently had my horse scoped again (long story, many scopes) and no one had ever before tested stomach fluid and looked for bacteria. Treating that has made a huge difference, and he did not have ulcers. Keep in mind that any upset in the stomach changes how the food is digested and pushed through. She may have inflammation farther down the system, like in her small intestine. I’d go back to look, take a fluid sample from stomach, and get some answers. And probably won’t be using GG again - now that I see that long term use that changes stomach pH creates a world of problems.

[NancyM]

Yes, your problem (her problem, thus your problem) may well be the alfalfa, and the levels of protein in the alfalfa. It’s pretty easy to test this. Remove the alfalfa from her diet, see what happens. Look for protein sources in the grain ration too, or in any “supplements” that are provided. I have two who are protein sensitive… it’s “gut pain”, looks like ulcers, but not ulcers. Easily fixed with change of feed. Aim for no more than 10% protein in the diet. If this doesn’t solve your problem, then this isn’t the answer… but easy and cheap to try. Good luck.

[SLW]

@zelle

She goes out all night - more than 12 hours generally. She gets 1.5 lbs feed 3x daily. Warmblood. I use a large slow feed haynet inside so that she doesn’t ever run out. In turnout, I supplement with a fescue that I think I’ll start using in her haynet.
Thank you everyone for helping me think about this!

That’s a nice schedule for your horse and I agree with the poster who mentioned checking the protein level in the alfalfa.

One other thing to consider is the actual grain/concentrate you are feeding. Low to no sugar products are best for ulcer prone horses.

[Angela_Freda]

@ladipus

The hay could likely be higher in starch and sugar which could equate to a grumpier horse if ulcers and metabolic issues are a concern

And a hotter, more reactive horse.

[Jackie_Cochran]

One time I had a yearling to 2 year old Arabian colt boarded at a Paso Fino breeding barn. The owner had gotten this “wonderful” feed formula mixture that a local feed mill could make up. He put every single horse on his farm on this new feed.

My colt, normally way laid back, really obedient and willing to work with me, started rearing in the cross ties one day. I told the cold NO!!! and told the barn owner that my colt needed to be put back on the old type 10% sweet feed. His feed was changed back and the colt never reared with me again. When I was in control of his feeding on my land I made good and sure not to go over the necessary amount of protein in his feed, and if he got clover or alfalfa hay I made good and sure to cut out his alfalfa pellets and cut down on his oats.

I had no more problems and he was a stallion. Quiet, friendly, and oh so easy to train.

A lot of horses are given way too much protein for their sanity.

[CHT]

If her topline is getting rounder, does the saddle still fit?

Where I used to work, they had a horse that would swell up/stock up on alfalfa hay. I forget the syndrome she had, but it may manifest itself more moderately with difficult behaviour in your horse?

[Railbird]

Additional calories and reduced expenditure through work is quite likely to make many horses utilize that excess energy in ways that are not how you would want them to. I would cut back the amount of feed or increase the amount of work and give it 2 weeks, assuming getting another lot of hay just for her isn’t an option.

[candyappy]

Significant weight gain can also mean your saddle no longer fits correctly.

Riding with an ill fitting saddle can definitely cause enough pain for the horse to be aggressive when saddling and also cause enough overall body soreness to be aggressive in stall and turnout.

[CindyCRNA]

Good God, she sounds like my WB! I toss my guy a hay bag of alfalfa at night and he gets alfalfa during the day. The difference is this is nice alfalfa but it is a year old so I think the richness is tempered.

[zelle]

Candyappy yes, thank you. During this time I am also going through a change of saddles. I realized that my saddles were making her miserable (as in - barely rideable) and I decided to make a change. I chose a brand that allowed her to move more freely and be less tense and tight. And also allow me to sit over my feet instead of sucking me into a toilet seat. Initially she was super happy with the shoulder freedom of these saddles. But perhaps I need to really investigate. She is improving on lower protein hay but she is still unhappy when I approach with a saddle pad. Moves as far away as possible.
It’s hard to know which saddle is the culprit because I switch around. I’ll stick with one and try to figure this out. Thanks again.

[candyappy]

@zelle

She is improving on lower protein hay but she is still unhappy when I approach with a saddle pad. Moves as far away as possible.
It’s hard to know which saddle is the culprit because I switch around. I’ll stick with one and try to figure this out. Thanks again.

They can have a long memory so even though you may have a saddle that fits correctly now, it may take some time for her to realize it isn’t going to hurt anymore.

They are good at anticipating the pain.