Rider showing two horses in same eq class?

[Jumper_girl221]

At a local VHSA rated show, one of the competitors was competing in a VHSA Eq over fences class with two horses. This is a split class, half is a jumping phase, half is a flat phase. She showed both, then took the horse whose round went better in the flat phase and withdrew the other.

I do know the trainer fairly well (used to ride with her) so approached her and asked if she was certain that she was permitted, that I was always under the impression a rider could only show one horse in an eq division since it was judged on the rider. The trainer said that its always been allowed, and that the rider just drops the lower placing horse.

I am on the board for this particular local circuit, but this show was not one the association was running, however I am running 6 of the 12 shows on this circuit this year (other 6 are hosted by individual farms) so think this is something I should be clear on!!! I did not ask the steward, and the judge didn’t bring it up.

VHSA and the local circuits rulebook are silent, USEF just says one rider per horse, but nothing about the rider showing additional horses.

[AmmyByNature]

If it’s not against the rules, then I suppose it’s not against the rules.

Pretty asinine thing to allow, though. One would think common sense would prevail, but if USEF rules don’t trump VHSA non-rules then I suppose it’s allowed.

It’s insane, though. If you’re on the board I would make a rule about it asap…

ETA: I’m a little confused, though, about what kind of show this is. If it’s a rated show with a steward, isn’t it under USEF rules? I would have asked the steward, I suppose. Although it’s one of those things that is SO CLEARLY not allowed I would also be kind of flummoxed if I saw it and people seemed to think it was okay…

[NancyM]

This is a question that the show steward is there to answer for you, and it is a situation that the show steward is there to deal with at the show.

IMO, the trainer is incorrect, a rider can only compete once in an equitation class. So choose your best equitation horse to do so.

[Jumper_girl221]

This is a VHSA rated “C” show, so not really under USEF guidelines. I doubt the steward would have known right off the bat either, and it would have been kicked around by the various trainers/board members involved in the association.

I plan on bringing it up with the other board members to ask about, just didn’t at the show because i didn’t want to cause a stink. I also thought it sorta fell in the common sense territory and I’m honestly surprised someone didnt’ step up myself. Apparently she did this at a show in March that I was managing and I just didn’t pick up on it at that time!

I wanted to get some COTH input though as well to make sure its not a usual thing.

[mvp]

If I could have a vote, I’d disallow that. I suppose it won’t happen often that some rider will show up with a string of horses that allows her many more shots at getting a course right than do the other riders who just get one round, but it would suck if this strategy became “a thing.”

[merrygoround]

I can’t see that it should make a difference. Different horses require different rides.

[supernatural]

riding 2 horses in same eq class

OK. In an equitation class what is being judged. Is it horse or rider? The answer is rider. Here in lies your answer. It is not OK at any show for the equitation rider to show 2 horses in the equitation class then take the one she chooses to flat on.

Each rider gets to ride ONE horse in an equitation class. Hunter classes are different. Multiple horses can be ridden then the one they like on the flat will flat. I have a hard time believing that any show circuit would allow someone to show 2 horses in the same equitation class. If so, it is illegal.

Are you sure this happened in an equitation class and not a regular Hunter class???:D:D:D:D

[AmmyByNature]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8137384]
I can’t see that it should make a difference. Different horses require different rides.[/QUOTE]

Seriously? You would let BNJunior show in the eq finals on as many horses as she would like? That wouldn’t make a difference?

[Foxglove]

(Ashamed at my own ignorance) 30+ years ago, DD showed two horses in Eq over fences and tied herself for first place. No one said she couldn’t and since we were new to the show world, we entered both. The subsequent shows we learned this was not supposed to happen. Mistakes happen. Since we always showed two horses in jumpers, we figured it was ok . . .

Foxglove

[AmmyByNature]

Yeah, but this is a trainer. Trainer should know it’s not acceptable, no matter what the rules do or do not say…

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Jumper_girl221;8137353]

I plan on bringing it up with the other board members to ask about.[/QUOTE]

I think this is a great idea.
Make a decision as a group and then add a rule so it is covered next season if it is agreed upon.
It does seem strange that this trainer thought it was no big deal.

[LTLFLDF]

I think where the confusion is that this was not a single equitation class. It was an entire division which is often just used as another schooling division. I looked up a couple of local associations and none of them state you may only ride one horse. So lack of a rule makes it unusual but not breaking a rule because it doesn’t exist.

And VHSA associate shows are similar to USEF C show but are not “C” shows.

[AmmyByNature]

[QUOTE=LTLFLDF;8137459]
I think where the confusion is that this was not a single equitation class. It was an entire division which is often just used as another schooling division. I looked up a couple of local associations and none of them state you may only ride one horse. So lack of a rule makes it unusual but not breaking a rule because it doesn’t exist.

And VHSA associate shows are similar to USEF C show but are not “C” shows.[/QUOTE]

There are lots of eq divisions used as warm ups. No one goes in them twice with two different horses. No one.

No confusion - just common sense.

(Just to clarify - of course I mean no one goes in the same eq class with two horses. If there are two eq classes then you can go in each one on a different horse - obviously. Doesn’t matter if there’s a flat phase or not - if it’s one eq class you get one ride.)

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=LTLFLDF;8137459]
I think where the confusion is that this was not a single equitation class. It was an entire division which is often just used as another schooling division. I looked up a couple of local associations and none of them state you may only ride one horse. So lack of a rule makes it unusual but not breaking a rule because it doesn’t exist.

And VHSA associate shows are similar to USEF C show but are not “C” shows.[/QUOTE]

If it’s a “division” where for example there are two different, separately pinned equitation over fences classes, then sure, it would be fine to ride a different horse in each one, and then of course one could ride any horse in a separately entered and pinned flat class.

If it’s a two phase class, like a medal, the rider is entered once and only once, and stays on the same horse for the whole class.

[Jumper_girl221]

[QUOTE=LTLFLDF;8137459]
I think where the confusion is that this was not a single equitation class. It was an entire division which is often just used as another schooling division. I looked up a couple of local associations and none of them state you may only ride one horse. So lack of a rule makes it unusual but not breaking a rule because it doesn’t exist.

And VHSA associate shows are similar to USEF C show but are not “C” shows.[/QUOTE]

oops sorry, its easier to explain “C” to people and I’ve gotten into the habit, its just their Associate program.

And this is a single class, it just has two parts, the first half is over fences, then the rider comes back and flats.

Class Specs (which are fairly standard):
SHSA/VHSA ASSOCIATE EQUITATION - Open to all riders. Only the rider is judged. To be judged on correct position and ability. The performance begins when the horse and rider enter the ring. Jumping faults of the horse are not to be considered unless it is the result of the rider’s inability. To be judged over a course of at least eight (8) fences with the second phase on the flat. Fence heights - 2’, 2’6", or 3’. Equitation tests 1-11 may be asked at the discretion of the judge.

[Jumper_girl221]

And I really don’t have a bone in the fight, none of my students were in this class, I just thought it was quite odd.

[Tackpud]

Since the rider is being judged (per the class specs you posted above) then she is only allowed to enter the class once to be judged. Trainer was wrong…

[IPEsq]

Ok, if it’s like our local association junior eq, then it’s a full division with 2 O/F classes and one flat. So, conceivably, you could show a different horse in each O/F class and then flat on the one you’d do better on. As in, the rider is still entering each O/F class only once. Still seems odd to me…don’t know why you would do that in practice, but it may not be illegal.

In most C-rated junior eq divisions that I’ve experienced elsewhere (and I do not have experience with VHSA), there is usually just one O/F and a flat. If that’s the case, then no way could the same rider show 2 horses in the O/F class.

[Jumper_girl221]

IPEsq - this is one over fences phase, then a flat phase. The rider showed both horses in the OF, but only flatted one.

[CHT]

If the rider is being judged, then it would be the same as one horse being entered twice in a regular hunter class with two different riders…not allowed. The judge likely didn’t notice, or wasn’t sure if this was something the association allowed, but the trainer should know better.