So is it scored like a medal class too? Like, 75% jumping, 25% flat? One class number on the prize list? That’s even more bizarre. This would warrant a chat with the steward if you see it again before you can talk with the board.
My impression is that she goes in on the first horse with back number XXX on and gets judged on the card. Goes in for second horse with same number XXX since judged on individual. Judge can’t overwrite on card for XXX.
[QUOTE=Jumper_girl221;8137353]
I plan on bringing it up with the other board members to ask about, just didn’t at the show because i didn’t want to cause a stink. I also thought it sorta fell in the common sense territory and I’m honestly surprised someone didnt’ step up myself. [/QUOTE]
If you as a board member weren’t stepping up at the show because you didn’t want to cause a stink, who do you think should have stepped up instead? They would have had to question not just the trainer’s judgement (can be a difficult/political thing to do under the best of situations) but also apparent approval by a board member (since you weren’t saying anything at the time against it).
Don’t get me wrong–I’m glad you’re going to address it after and it will get sorted out. I’m just a little non-plussed that a board member who is unwilling to do anything in the moment would be surprised that no one else did, either.
Eq class = one trip per class.
Life would be so easy if you could ride the course on different horses until you got it right, which based on what the trainer said, she conceivably believes you can do…provided you had enough horses.
I consider that description to mean that the rider may only ride once, because the rider is the one being judged. Why should the rider be judged more than once? It doesn’t need to explicitly state that the rider may not enter multiple horses… that would be like different riders entering the same horse into one hunter class.
[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8138506]
If you as a board member weren’t stepping up at the show because you didn’t want to cause a stink, who do you think should have stepped up instead? They would have had to question not just the trainer’s judgement (can be a difficult/political thing to do under the best of situations) but also apparent approval by a board member (since you weren’t saying anything at the time against it).
Don’t get me wrong–I’m glad you’re going to address it after and it will get sorted out. I’m just a little non-plussed that a board member who is unwilling to do anything in the moment would be surprised that no one else did, either.[/QUOTE]
Because if the trainer is saying she’s done this all over the state of Virginia and never had it questioned and this has “always been permitted” then why would I raise a stink only to be told that it is normal, I wanted to read the rule book first. Then when I didn’t see a clear rule I asked on COTH.
I’ve always primarily shown jumpers and hunters and was not as familiar with the rules of eq.
Also, if there’s no outright rule against it do we have the right to block it this year? I’m assuming since there’s not a rule we will need to make a bylaw ammendment stating one horse per rider.
A simple solution for the future is to write a VHSA rule that says that USEF rules prevail if there isn’t a specific VHSA rule to cover a given situation. Problem solved.
Peggy I’m like 99.9999% sure that’s already a rule. Unfortunately when I read the USEF rules earlier they didn’t have anything prohibiting multiple horses in the eq, only in the hunters (horse can only show once with one rider in the hunter classes).
VHSA rulebook says
Riders must remain on the same
mount throughout all phases of an equitation class until the judge requests a change.
That pretty much prevents riding two horse in the same class.
[QUOTE=Janet;8138778]
VHSA rulebook says
Riders must remain on the same
mount throughout all phases of an equitation class until the judge requests a change.
That pretty much prevents riding two horse in the same class.[/QUOTE]
That’s the same language as the USEF EQ 102.3, which in my mind means one rider, on one horse.
How was the rider scored/pinned? I’ve only ever seen eq classes with results listed by rider, so how would that even have worked with two mounts?
I would be surprised (and displeased) if it is allowed in an equitation division. There is already enough girls showing with 2-3 expensive horses just to win the older children’s hunters…I know the playing field will never be “level” as that is a pipe dream. But allowing each rider the same number of opportunities as the rest of the riders to get it right would be a huge piece of making things a little more equitable. And enjoyable - I went to watch the “big” USHJA hunter derby class at Keswick last year and it was like 8 horses of Kelly Farmer’s, and 3-4 others. (Obviously I’m exaggerating a little, but not much) Really, really frustrating to see because it isn’t that there aren’t other nice horses out there with riders who could get it done, they just know they don’t stand a chance against some of these machine farms/riders sending a big handful in to ensure they win the class and are 3rd, 4th and 7th as well.
However, as usual, no one called me and asked for my opinion so it is worth just exactly the same as the air in my empty orange juice glass. And I don’t 'spect they will start calling for my input any time soon, lol~
[QUOTE=DoubleTwistedWire;8138782]
That’s the same language as the USEF EQ 102.3, which in my mind means one rider, on one horse.
How was the rider scored/pinned? I’ve only ever seen eq classes with results listed by rider, so how would that even have worked with two mounts?[/QUOTE]
The rider didn’t flat one horse so that horse wasn’t pinned.
And good point about that rule!
[I]Page 1 of the VHSA Rulebook:
“The Virginia Horse Shows Association in its status as an affiliate of the US Equestrian Federation (USEF) is bound by the nature of that affiliation to abide by the rules of the USEF. In case of a conflict, the USEF rules take precedence. Likewise, in the case of Associations affiliated with the VHSA and not the USEF, the VHSA rules take precedence in shows held in Virginia.”[/I]
So any VHSA associate show held in VA is bound by VHSA and USEF rules.
[I]Page 24 of the VHSA Rulebook: (Rule 14, Part 1, Sec. 3, last line)
“Part I. Regulations for all Seats.”
“…Riders must remain on the same
mount throughout all phases of an equitation class until the judge requests a change.”[/I]
For all seats, which would include hunt seat, they must remain on the same horse.
I’m also in agreement with the poster who said that this would be just like riding the same horse in a regular hunter class twice. Can you imagine? “Well, I didn’t like my first two courses, so I’m taking a do-over”
Just…no. lol
COTH at its best. Good answers to a legitimate question. 
[QUOTE=merrygoround;8137384]
I can’t see that it should make a difference. Different horses require different rides.[/QUOTE]
Except, unlike hunters, both rides cannot place. So, essentially the rider is getting two chances at one ribbon.
If you read that literally, she is not breaking that rule - she jumps two and flats one, so one horse is ridden for both phases. She doesn’t jump one and flat the other.
So it violates the spirit but not the actual wording of the rule…
I read it literally, and see it differently. She rode a different horse in the jumping phase than she did in the flat phase. Not allowed.
It’s not allowed. You can’t jump the on the same one-course card with the same back number twice.
I think OP has her answer, but just to look at this maybe from a different perspective…
Let’s say rider A enters into an over fences hunter class. It’s judged on the horse. Well rider A goes in, knocks a rail, goes off course, whatever else she didn’t like. She comes out and withdraws the horse from the rest of the division. Then rider A gives the same horse to rider B, who attempts to re-enter the same class.
What would be the concensus then? There’s no rule that explicitly states that THIS scenario is not allowed… But it’s still quite obviously not going to fly if anyone attempted it.
You wouldn’t give a horse two chances in an over fences division under normal circumstances, so why should this rider get two chances?
[QUOTE=lachelle;8142666]
I think OP has her answer, but just to look at this maybe from a different perspective…
Let’s say rider A enters into an over fences hunter class. It’s judged on the horse. Well rider A goes in, knocks a rail, goes off course, whatever else she didn’t like. She comes out and withdraws the horse from the rest of the division. Then rider A gives the same horse to rider B, who attempts to re-enter the same class.
What would be the concensus then? There’s no rule that explicitly states that THIS scenario is not allowed… But it’s still quite obviously not going to fly if anyone attempted it.
You wouldn’t give a horse two chances in an over fences division under normal circumstances, so why should this rider get two chances?[/QUOTE]
There is a rule against the scenario you described. The same horse cannot enter a hunter class with two different riders.
