I posted on another thread about a special on the Arabian horse on PBS Sunday eve - followed up with questions about the Tevis, etc.
Part of the program showed riders on the Tevis trail - and I was surprised to see a lot of bouncing on the horses’ backs - a kind of sitting trot. This got me to thinking.
First of all - I have never ridden more than just a few hours on the trail. Walk: sit,
Trot: Post, Canter: Sit/2-point. Or half-seat/whatever. Dressage background.
This is meant as no criticism to the distance riders - because I could not begin to do what you/they do. I have never even been to an endurance ride - so have no idea how most rider’s ride.
(If my horse and I were healthy - we would be attempting endurance!!!). Anyway - what do folks do? Sit the walk obviously. Trot: Sit or rise or half-rise? Canter: sit or 2-point? Reading the polo thread - anyone on the trail post to the canter?
What is best/easiest for horse and rider?
I post the trot and generally 2 point in canter. Some people seem to do a 2 point or half seat in the trot and some kind of do bounce around 
There are quite a few endurance riders with pretty bad “equitation” that look sloppy- I dont know if its that they’ve never been taught to ride properly or what, but I guess as long as it works for them and their horse…
I didnt know about that PBS special, would have liked to have seen it!
Trail rider rather than endurance. I tend to sit if I’m unsure about the lay of the land. I want to be deep in the saddle instead of up and forward if my horse suddenly goes a direction I wasn’t expecting.
In my experience, most endurance riders do post at the trot-- but it’s also depending on what mile they are on.
I know when I’m getting to the end , I’m tired, my horse is tired, and my postbecomes barely defineable, I’m off the horses back, but I’ll barely be lifting off the saddle, it’s a minimal post, if that makes sense, as I ride with longer stirrups then english. Most riders do use a longer leg, for long mileage comfort and security. Some horses are ‘extremely’ hot in the beginning of a race, climbing the walls hot, and a longer leg is definitely nicer.
Your typical english length stirrup is also generally murder on your knees, once you start doing anything past an LD or even an LD for some, like myself, I simply cannot hack short stirrups for anything other then ring work. (not walking when you get off your horse type murder)
Also, to remember - there is a section of riders who do ride western style, they like it, it works for them, so I don’t usually see much posting as an english rider would define it, from them.
Canter, - I will generally sit, sometimes 2 point, depending on the terrain, mine and my horses level of fatigue at that point. etc.
A friend who is a serious competitor mostly two points the trot and goes half seat in the canter. She completed Tevis last year. I’m just a trail rider and generally sit the canter and post or two-point the trot. But I don’t ride for more than 3 hours.
[QUOTE=rainechyldes;3347193]
it’s a minimal post, if that makes sense, as I ride with longer stirrups then english. [/QUOTE]
Maybe you’re thinking of h/j riders? Dressage folks ride with a long leg. If I lengthened my stirrups to trail ride, they’d be dangling below my feet.
There are quite a few endurance riders with pretty bad “equitation” that look sloppy- I dont know if its that they’ve never been taught to ride properly or what, but I guess as long as it works for them and their horse…
I know they don’t all ride like crap and my Tevis friend is a very good rider. But some are pretty hard to watch and imagine them going on and on like that. 
Would standing up on stirrup during trotting work? My Arab has not yet smoothen out her trots so I’ve been standing up while trying to get her to smoothen her trots. I find standing up kinder to my back - when I do try to post, it was rough…not like the others where I could post to each beat while blindfolded.
Jake can have a pretty bumpy trot, and I find myself at the chiro the day after I try and work on a sitting trot. So I do not try it all to often!
I post the trot for all my rides. Switch diagonals often. Try and sit the canter, but he is such a trotter, we do not do a ton of cantering.
My legs will burn usually the first ten minutes of the trot, if it has been a while, but otherwise they hold up well. But wait until I get off and ask me how my left knee feels! ACK!
I really need a brace that holds my kneecap together better…
I know a guy who two-points the whole thing. I think he has legs of steel!
I normally don’t ride for more than 2-3 hours for a trail, but sometimes I will do a longer ride, or go out all day. I trail ride with my dressage saddle, and keep my stirrups at a medium length so I can post the trot and take smaller jumps if I want.
My horse has a VERY smooth and comfortable sitting trot, and can do a western jog too, but I am making a point to always post his trot, especially since I am encouraging a more “english” trot.
If I am cantering, I generally sit the canter, but if I’m going on uneven ground or up a hill, etc, I will use a 2-point type seat.
When we’ve been out for a long time though and both my horse and I are getting pretty tired, I let him jog and will sit the trot.
I post the trot and generally go to half-seat for the canter (but we don’t canter much yet, as we’re still pretty early on in Aaruba’s conditioning). At the end of a long ride, when I’m tired and starting to feel “sloppy,” I consciously tighten my abdominals and use both hands on the reins (I often ride cheat-rein, switching hands frequently to balance things out) to pull myself back together rather than becoming a sack of potatoes. :winkgrin:
Two point the trot, two point or half seat the canter. A bad back precludes all but the most brief sitting trot.
Endurance quipment, experience in the sport, and a competitive horse/rider team tend to present a picture that is far different from the ring rider.
Endurance riders and horses spend almost 90%, or greater, of the 50 to 100 miles at a trot. That is a LOT of posting, and a lot of lifting of the rider on each diagonal. Hours and hours and hours. Sometimes up to 24 hours for 100 miles.
What endurance horses and riders learn over the miles (and those doing Tevis have to qualify with competitive miles in order to enter) are pretty much what rainchyldes said: the post becomes barely discernable – a very low swing of the hips, barely lifting off the saddle, with the horse doing a low moving trot that doesn’t pound the rider up and down. It is very efficient, and requires a minimum of effort/energy for both. Horses with lofty trots don’t last long in endurance – it becomes too problematic to ride a distance on something that throws you way up and around. So what you tend to see on the endurance trail is a low ground-covering trot and a “close to the saddle” post.
Several other things encourage this energy efficient posting – treeless saddles, long stirrups leathers, and endurance stirrups. Treeless saddles usually sit much deeper on a horse’s back than a treed saddle, and I’ve personally found they encourage a very low hip-swinging post that is hughly comfortable. Longer stirrup leathers – ones that are not quite dressage length (which is more suited to sitting trot than rising trot), but still much longer than a hunter/jumper seat (which needs the bent knee/ankle to absorb the shock of jumping) – also encourage a low post. Endurance stirrups are also wide and flat and comfortable for long distances – your foot is placed flat on that 4" wide padded surface which absorbs the shock of the rise’n’fall, and further encourages that low post.
So there you have it. In endurance you need to be physically energy efficient and economical – the strategy that keeps you and the horse going strong and long… wins the race. 
PS: Any good endurance rider worth their salt never walks more than a moment or a short distance (like across a stream or up to a water stop). Otherwise you get off and walk with your horse - unless you are injured and can’t walk. Sitting on a horse while it is walking along is needlessly using up your horse’s “bucket of energy” and is a huge waste of the horse.
Galloping is usually reserved for the race to the finish – I’ve always gone into 2-point to free up my guy’s back, and bent low to provide the least wind resistance. I don’t see the canter used very often out there – it’s not fast enough to make a difference and isn’t near as efficient or energy conserving as a trot. If you need to get past someone fast, you hand gallop. And for that you should always 2 point.
When I began competing Mighty Mouse I found myself with very sore thighs after a ride. Mouse had a very springy trot, a lot of umph in it and I found I was posting bigger, higher and really working my thigh muscles hard. Unlike GTD, I do not ride with a long stirrup, can’t stand it, find my joints do better and I have a tighter seat with a little more bend in my hip, knee and ankle joints. It’s also more shock absorbing for me and actually easier on my bad knees. BUT, the big posting was killing me. I realized that even though Mouse did this boinging trot I didn’t have to do the same with my posting. I have reduced my movement while posting quite a bit. I still have a more noticeable movement while posting than many riders because of all those years of hunt seat riding.
Also, when you ride a saddle that actually has the stirrups placed underneath you, as many endurance saddles do, you can sit very upright (less tiring onyour back) and post very moderately up and down. Not up-forward-backward and down. This is far less work for your legs but feels very different and takes practice. The posting definitely looks different. English saddles and western saddles have a very forward stirrup placement and riders have to post forward, even lean forward from the hips, in order to post. I have taken apart several english saddles and examined the construction. I didn’t realize just how forward those stirrup bars are. When I first got a Sport Saddle it felt so strange to have the stirrups way back under me. I felt like I was toppling forward until I got my upper body back. what a relief on my lower back!
Bonnie
I also need a lot of bend in my leg. I can’t ride with a long straight leg. It kills my back. I need the short stirrups to keep my knees and ankles working as shock absorbers.
I do LDs at this time but even so - you cannot post or sit for 25-35 miles. You just can’t. I do a sort of half seat. I post for a while every couple of miles but I can’t keep it up long. My horse has a very short but high trot - tons of suspension and loft. She is however learning how to go more long and low and not in such a “showring trot.” But boy can she really turn on the suspension when she wants and it feels like riding a carousel horse. If she can’t go forward, she’ll go up and down. Tons of wasted energy but she’ll figure it out when she gets bumped up to 50s. 
Right now 25 isn’t enough to tire her out so she’s not learned to conserve energy. She prefers to canter and the canter is more efficient for her than the trot. But I won’t let her canter for 25 miles so she HAS to learn to trot. She’s a baby yet so it’ll come with time I hope.
At the canter I 2-point. I don’t think I ever sit. The only time I really sit in the saddle is when we walk through really messy/boggy or very rocky spots.
I guess everybodys different…I can post for up to 65 miles (the longest ride I’ve completed, well of course not all of it was spent trotting, but most). I very rarely stand in the stirrups or do a half seat at the trot but I do know lots of people who do. I dont post big but I do post. I also think its all the years of hunt seat riding ingrained in me.
Most people I see walk while sitting on their horse too. Some people do walk or jog on foot beside their horse- I always do walk on foot probably 2-4 miles each endurance ride, especially on downhills, but I never considered not walking while mounted.
i always wondered the same thing.
i have friends who compete who do that ‘bounce’ thing too.
i know my mare would flip if i bounced on her back like that for longer than few strides.
and i would also expect the horses’ backs to get sore but i guess they don’t…
i always post and 2 point or 3 point the canter on trails.
i wholly disagree.
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3353466]
I do LDs at this time but even so - you cannot post or sit for 25-35 miles. You just can’t. [/QUOTE]
maybe you can’t. i can and many of my friends who compete in 50’s and 100’s can.
Okay then - I cannot post for 25 or 35 miles. No way.
I don’t bounce on my horse’s back. I never said I did. If I bounced on my horse’s back with every stride she’d throw me into a tree. I do a sort of a half seat or 2-point for much of the ride and let my knees and ankles absorb the movement. I do post some though not as much.
I think its odd to not be able to post throughout an endurance ride- I’ve always considered posting a very effortless movement. If you have to work to post, I think you’re doing something wrong. I think it requires more physical effort to hold a half seat or 2 point and you do tend to bounce around more and make the horse absorb more of the movement. I would think it would be way easier on the horses back to post, and also a better position to be balanced, sit straight, be able to do half halts and have more control.
I used to think that posting at trot was easy until I got my Arab! I could post blindfolded on smooth trotting horses for miles and miles. So, I can understand why this thread was posted - what to do with rough trotting horses that we cannot just dispose of and get another one? Abby is very connected to me that I do not have the heart to get another owner.
I dont know, I have never ridden a horse that I thought was difficult to post to and I’ve ridden quite a few. right now, i have an Arab with a beautiful long lofty comfy stride, an Arab with a teeny tiny stride that can be like a sewing machine if I let it, and a Tb. who is the least comfortable- on his forehand, no suspension, long back. But I can post to them all with no problem. If I start to get tired, I feel like its my responsibility to keep riding properly, as opposed to bouncing around and getting sloppy.
