Riding a horse for a non-horsey owner

I am a 16 year old dressage rider that is currently showing at 2nd level with someone else’s horse. I have been riding this horse for the past 2 almost 3 years now. Each show season I have shown this mans horse and get payed for each class. While not at a show I get payed per ride. Recently they have reduced my pay to only 5 rides a month. The owners are expecting this horse to show with only 5 rides a month. I have been getting ripped off for my time and effort in this horse. For the past 2 years the owners have only payed for 1 show, and they except the ribbons from them all. After telling them that they will only get the ribbons from the shows they pay for, they have decided to actually pay for a show and pay for my second leve championship class. They took the ribbon at the show and we have not been payed yet. has anyone else has a problem with an owner like this before?

You are 16? If I had a nice horse that could go to second level
championships, I think you would be paying me to ride him
-as in a partial lease.
If your agreement is that you are being paid to ride and show
you need to get your parents involved if you aren’t getting your
money.

You are 16.

As above poster stated most kids in your position are paying lease fees for these type of horses.

Forget everything that has come before and sit down with your parents and the owners of the horse and come up with a written agreement. The past is the past. Don’t go into it complaining about your ribbons which definitely makes you sound like a child.

Do know what your actual bottomline is ie what is the lowest amount you will accept without coming here later to complain about it. Be prepared to walk if the owners wont meet your minimum

I will say though as my one bit of condescending grown up advice, cherish the time you have now and every opportunity you have to rider because you absolutely never know when or why you may not have that opportunity anymore. Horses are really expensive, particularly as an adult. The more horses you ride at your age, the more skills you build and the more likelihood you will have horses to ride in the future. If you limit your own opportunities at 16 because you want money, i pray that you don’t find yourself in the future without horses or money to ride.

I’m thinking troll. What junior rider feels “ripped off” that they not only have a free second level horse to ride and show, but they are being given some money?? The concern over the owner “accepting” the ribbons is just strange. Technically prizes/money belong to the owner unless other agreements are made.

I hope you are right! !

Although I once got to listen to an owner gripe about their rider keeping things and rider gripe about the owner keeping things…And we are talking about a very very local schooling show series.

People can be shockingly petty.

If the kid had an agreement with the HO, and it’s not being honored, then she’s being ripped off.

The answer to a kid being ripped off is not “Well, you should have been happy for the ride (for which you thought you were being paid and were not… so it’s all good.” Being cheated in business is unacceptable, regardless of the age of the people involved.

OP, I think you and the HO need to negotiate the terms of your agreement and you need to be prepared to cut these folks off from service until they pay up and you all have a firm agreement about what happens going forward. If you were a professional, this is what you’d have to do as well: You don’t keep working for people who aren’t paying you. Period. You have to put some action behind your words.

Good luck. I hope you can work this out.

[QUOTE=mvp;8862437]If the kid had an agreement with the HO, and it’s not being honored, then she’s being ripped off.

The answer to a kid being ripped off is not “Well, you should have been happy for the ride (for which you thought you were being paid and were not… so it’s all good.” Being cheated in business is unacceptable, regardless of the age of the people involved.

OP, I think you and the HO need to negotiate the terms of your agreement and you need to be prepared to cut these folks off from service until they pay up and you all have a firm agreement about what happens going forward. If you were a professional, this is what you’d have to do as well: You don’t keep working for people who aren’t paying you. Period. You have to put some action behind your words.

Good luck. I hope you can work this out.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. If she’s supposed to be paid, she’s supposed to be paid, whether she’s 16 or 26. End of story.

[QUOTE=dotneko;8862195] If your agreement is that you are being paid to ride and show you need to get your parents involved if you aren’t getting your
money.[/QUOTE]

OP, since you are 16, get your parents involved.

[QUOTE=ladyj79;8862203]You are 16.
As above poster stated most kids in your position are paying lease fees for these type of horses.[/QUOTE]

But the OP is not most kids. She’s most probably trained that horse for the past 3 yrs, assumably bringing it up the levels on her own and/or with the help of a trainer.

Forget everything that has come before and sit down with your parents and the owners of the horse and come up with a written agreement. The past is the past. Don’t go into it complaining about your ribbons which definitely makes you sound like a child.

The OP is a child. Probably her first ‘‘job’’ in training. She was presented with a really nice project and now, adults are taking advantage of her because she’s a kid, she loves the horse and riding.

Like I said, the OP most probably trained the horse to that level. I hightly doubt she was handled the reins of a schoolmaster…

The OP paid for her classes and I see no problem with her expecting the keep the ribbons. To me, ribbons and show money goes to whomever paid.
Or at least, goes to whomever decided between both parties.
I’ve always kept my ribbons, show money went to pay the horse’s show bills.

OP, talk to your parents, write down what you want, what you want to do and how much you want and then, sit down with the horse’s owner for a good talk.
Write down a contract.

GOod luck

Agreed and, she is being paid what the owner says they’ll pay (for up to 5 rides). It doesn’t matter if they use to pay for 20 rides. I think her gripe is that they are reducing her paid rides and she’s not happy about it. They are not obligated to keep paying her for regular rides and she isn’t obligated to keep riding the horse. They need to discuss it and come to a new agreement or walk away from the partnership.

Right, except for this part:

OP, the traditional arrangement is that the ribbons and prize money go to the owner. Think of yourself as a jockey riding for a rich, non-riding stable owner. With modern lease arrangements and borrowing horses, etiquette dictates that the person who paid the entries keeps the prizes. In this case, presumably, it was the rider, not the HO, who wanted the horse shown and therefore put in both the time and money involved. In this case, the prizes go to that person and not the HO.

In your position, I think you need to hang onto something of value-- your time and skill or ribbons or whatever-- until you are paid and you guys have come to a reasonable agreement with an additional assurance (of some sort) that it will be honored. After all, the HO has (reportedly) renegged once. And you should stick to your guns about it being unrealistic to expect that the horse will go out and win with just 5 rides a month.

You might lose your ride for telling this truth, sadly. It’s not fair that you should have to make up the difference between what the HO wants to pay in order to have his horse be competitive and what it takes. But it’s not fair to you or the horse to co-sign the HO’s cheap fantasy.

You might lose your ride, here… But I suggest you stand up for yourself (and involve your parents). Because you are under age 18, there is not a valid contract without your parents involved.

Congrats on getting a paid ride on a nice horse.

[QUOTE=mvp;8862437]If the kid had an agreement with the HO, and it’s not being honored, then she’s being ripped off.

The answer to a kid being ripped off is not “Well, you should have been happy for the ride (for which you thought you were being paid and were not… so it’s all good.” Being cheated in business is unacceptable, regardless of the age of the people involved.

OP, I think you and the HO need to negotiate the terms of your agreement and you need to be prepared to cut these folks off from service until they pay up and you all have a firm agreement about what happens going forward. If you were a professional, this is what you’d have to do as well: You don’t keep working for people who aren’t paying you. Period. You have to put some action behind your words.

Good luck. I hope you can work this out.[/QUOTE]

I think the feeling was the OP was improving the horse (making it show-worthy, ribbon-worthy) in exchange for money. The agreement concerning paid number of rides per month was never clear, or it was clear then reduced from a number higher than five, to only 5.

Her complaint is not so much about the ribbons as about the reduction in number of paid rides per month.

(Maybe HOs feel horse is now sufficiently trained? Or don’t understand how much training is required? These are the questions that need clarification).

I am wondering why a non-horsey person has this horse. What is the plan and expectations from the HO for this horse? Knowing these details would give us a better idea how to advise the OP.

One would hope that an intelligent 16 yo would be capable of a little more grammatical explanation of complaint.

Do keep looking under the bridge.

OP, as you continue on in the horse business, you will find that some owners want you to accomplish unrealistic results in the amount of rides they are willing to pay for.
Your options are to walk away from the unrealistic situation or to try to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

That said, nobody is forcing you to ride this horse. You can always walk away and let them figure out how to reach their goals without your help.

Sometimes clients who are timid want to ride their 3yo ottb twice a week and they would like to make this work with one or two months of twice a week prorides and one lesson a month. Will this work? No. But they are the ones who will be paying the bills on a horse they can’t ride and won’t pay to have trained. Not you. Leave them to their situation. If the horse is pleasant enough and you have time, ride it however few times they want, give it a pat, tell them it’s lovely, and hand it back.

If you are trying to pursue your own objectives and the clients are being strangely uncooperative about you doing whatever you want with their horse on their dime, you can always purchase your own horse and train it exactly how you would like. Then when your clients get nuts you can just step back, let them do whatever they are going to do and reap whatever results or lack theireof their ideas lead to, and enjoy riding your own horse that you are in complete control of.

  1. OP is a junior and her parents should be involved in negotiating a written agreement and ensuring she gets paid
  2. If the horse cannot successfully show on 5 rides a month, then you need to tell the owners that. Be clear about the amount of prep and training involved if they want it to be successful. On the other hand, if you are allowed to compete it at other shows on your own dime, then it’s to your benefit as well to put in the unpaid ride time. It’s entirely your call based on what you want to get out if it
  3. Let the ribbons thing go. Personally I always give the ribbons my part boarder wins on my horse to her - I figure she earned them and they’re hers. But if your owner wants them he/she is entitled to them and it’s too small an issue to lose sleep over

Won’t this mean OP has lost her amateur status? That has serious ramifications for future goals.

No. Juniors can’t be professionals or ammies. So they can be paid.

Do you ride this horse exclusively or do you ride your own horse as well?