Riding woes - new horse

[centaursam]

I’ve been riding a new horse for the past few weeks and he is turning out to be quite a challenge.

Getting him to stand still takes effort. Getting him to walk is even harder as he immediately wants to break into the trot. Getting him to just trot is another matter entirely as he immediately wants to start cantering.

According to my trainer, he has anatomical issues (oddly shaped forelimbs), so to get him to cooperate at the walk and trot you must get him to drop his head low. This involves having my hands knee-width apart and down below my knees. This is pretty uncomfortable to me as it leaves me slightly tilted forward the entire time. It also requires constant application of tension as the second I ease up on the reigns, he wants to break into the canter. Any slight leg movement also causes him to pick up speed.

His canter is also odd and very bouncy. He is prone to losing the lead in corners so it requires firm input from the inside hand and outside leg and every time we round a corner it feels like I’m going to fly off sideways. I find it hard to stay in the saddle while cantering also, he’s got quite a bounce.

Today’s lesson was better than the last few as I’m starting to understand how to ride him a bit better. But my seat feels nonexistent, I’m horribly unbalanced when I ride him, and I’m drained afterwards as I’m in constant tension throughout the ride.

He’s probably the most bizarre and uncomfortable horse I’ve rode but I’m also not doing things correctly on my part if I can’t even sit the canter. I’ve put in a lot of work on improving my seat and have progressed with other horses quite a bit but this guy makes me question everything I’ve worked on. I’ve yet to jump him but my trainer has.

Any suggestions on how to approach such a horse would be greatly appreciated!

[WalnutGroveEq]

It sounds like your feeling of instability is stemming from you being cautious of putting your leg on because every time you do he wants to go faster than you are asking for. You are allowing him to subconsciously teach you to take your leg off. “Hot” horses generally need more leg. The feeling of giving a constant “hug” from your leg so that he can’t feel surprised when you do apply your leg.

If he is going faster and faster every time you use your leg then you need to teach him that leg does not just mean run. This means moving him off your leg laterally. Leg yielding, turn on the forehand, leg yielding in a out on circles anything that requires him to accept the leg and not run away from it.

Don’t mistake my meaning for “perfect” or “100% correct” leg yields/turn on the forehands. Just ask him to move laterally so you can get a leg on that doesn’t mean run fast.

It’s also important not to hold tension in your upper body or death grip with your leg as he will feed off of your tension and continue to get more amped up. In order to teach him to carry his frame lower you need to push him into the contact, again from your leg. Don’t feel like you are trying to get him to lower his head by working the bit, he needs to push with his hind end to be balanced enough to lower his head without feeling like he needs to rush to compensate.

Hopefully all of that made sense. Good luck!

[centaursam]

@WalnutGroveEq Thank you! I understand what you’re saying with regards to using leg on a hot/forward horse and I’ve used that in the past with other hot horses successfully (was an interesting concept to learn I remember).

Problem with him is that having my hands down so low and my upper body tipped forward along with his propensity to lurch forward at the smallest hint of leg has me reluctant to apply leg.

According to my trainer, that is the proper way to get him to lower his head, however.

In this particular case, is there a way to do this:

@WalnutGroveEq

Don’t feel like you are trying to get him to lower his head by working the bit, he needs to push with his hind end to be balanced enough to lower his head without feeling like he needs to rush to compensate.

without compromising upper body position?

Maybe I’m just using that as an excuse and I just need to work on more core strength/stability but I would happily employ more leg if my upper body was more secure and upright.

[skydy]

@centaursam

I’ve been riding a new horse for the past few weeks and he is turning out to be quite a challenge.

Getting him to stand still takes effort. Getting him to walk is even harder as he immediately wants to break into the trot. Getting him to just trot is another matter entirely as he immediately wants to start cantering.

According to my trainer, he has anatomical issues (oddly shaped forelimbs), so to get him to cooperate at the walk and trot you must get him to drop his head low. This involves having my hands knee-width apart and down below my knees. This is pretty uncomfortable to me as it leaves me slightly tilted forward the entire time. It also requires constant application of tension as the second I ease up on the reigns, he wants to break into the canter. Any slight leg movement also causes him to pick up speed.

His canter is also odd and very bouncy. He is prone to losing the lead in corners so it requires firm input from the inside hand and outside leg and every time we round a corner it feels like I’m going to fly off sideways. I find it hard to stay in the saddle while cantering also, he’s got quite a bounce.

Today’s lesson was better than the last few as I’m starting to understand how to ride him a bit better. But my seat feels nonexistent, I’m horribly unbalanced when I ride him, and I’m drained afterwards as I’m in constant tension throughout the ride.

He’s probably the most bizarre and uncomfortable horse I’ve rode but I’m also not doing things correctly on my part if I can’t even sit the canter. I’ve put in a lot of work on improving my seat and have progressed with other horses quite a bit but this guy makes me question everything I’ve worked on. I’ve yet to jump him but my trainer has.

Any suggestions on how to approach such a horse would be greatly appreciated!

I suggest that you find another trainer to give you a second opinion about how to ride this horse. Your trainer’s instruction about how to ride him seems very odd to me.

If you don’t want to do that, it would probably be worth getting some video of the horse under saddle and posting it here, so that people can see what is going on with the horse.:yes:

[WalnutGroveEq]

@centaursam

@WalnutGroveEq Thank you! I understand what you’re saying with regards to using leg on a hot/forward horse and I’ve used that in the past with other hot horses successfully (was an interesting concept to learn I remember).

Problem with him is that having my hands down so low and my upper body tipped forward along with his propensity to lurch forward at the smallest hint of leg has me reluctant to apply leg.

According to my trainer, that is the proper way to get him to lower his head, however.

In this particular case, is there a way to do this:

without compromising upper body position?

Maybe I’m just using that as an excuse and I just need to work on more core strength/stability but I would happily employ more leg if my upper body was more secure and upright.

Generally this is one of those cases where you need to trust the process even though it might feel a little nerve wracking (trust me I know, I am well versed with the little hotshot, feels like you’re sitting on a stick of dynamite type rides).

You shouldn’t be riding with your hands so low that you feel out of balance, but yes your trainer is correct that lower hands are more effective at getting the horse to lower their poll and stretch over their top line.

You should not be tipping forward so much you are out of balance (shoulders a bit in front of your hips is ok). You need to engage your core and bring your hips underneath your shoulders and over your lower leg/base of support. The contact you have on the reins shouldn’t come from pulling your elbows back and using only your triceps. It should come from engaging your core and stretching up (think like using your entire core including low back muscles).

The other piece is that if you are only using your upper body to get him to lower his head you are only shortening his neck and leaving his hind end out behind him. In order to get him to also shorten his hindquarter by stepping further under himself, you need to apply leg.

If you only shorten the front half of the horse (his neck) you are leaving him on his forehand and unbalanced. This will only cause him to continue to rush. You have to apply leg to shorten the back half of the horse so he can be balanced.

If you put your leg on and he runs forward then use lateral movement to teach him he does not have to run. If he continues to pull and rush, bend him. Put him on a small circle. The circle will slow him and allow you to continue to apply leg.

To be fair, this is nearly impossible to explain over an online forum, but the use of the leg and seat to get a horse to stretch over their top line is something your trainer should be able to explain and teach to you. But I hope this helps.

Riding a hot/forward horse is difficult and takes learning a lot of timing and tactfulness, but is completely invaluable. This will be good experience! I hope this helped.

[WalnutGroveEq]

I also should add. If the horse persists with hot/tense behavior despite correct riding there may some pain somewhere which is causing the tension (poor saddle fit, lameness, you did mention that the horse had some conformation faults). But I think its completely reasonable to seek another trainers help if your current one is unable to help you work through this first to ensure it’s not just a horse being a horse and there is no obvious physical discomfort.

[Fellbutbackup]

It sounds like a bad match.

[gertie06]

First of all, I agree that this may not be a good horse-rider-trainer combo. Low hands are good, sure. But your trainer is saying it’s because he has oddly-shaped forelimbs? And your hands should be at your knees? Huh? Also, who advised you to buy this challenging horse?

Your horse is either in pain or anxious. Have him checked by a vet and saddle fitter first.

If it’s anxiety, you’ve got to address it. The position of your hands isn’t going to fix this. Go back to groundwork. Get that horse doing relaxed walk/trot/canter without a rider. You’ve got to go back to square one.

Do a YouTube search for Warwick Schiller videos about anxiety and relaxation. Helpful stuff for horse and rider. He basically says you can’t teach a tense horse anything good, and I tend to agree.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Hands at your knees do not get a horse to stretch over their top line. Pick up any decent dressage book. Dropping your hands to your knees locks your elbows and arms, alters your balance and in general is very incorrect. Doing more lateral work is typically what you need to get a horse to stretch and engaged. Low hands does not mean hands below the withers. Something is very odd about this post and the instruction given.

[dotneko]

I know this is the hunter/jumper forum, but what the actual heck is that trainer teaching you? Yes, this sounds like a hot, reactive horse. As someone said above, he needs to learn to accept your leg, not teach you to keep your leg off.
I like to use an exercise i call the ‘ribbon candy’ exercise. At the walk, across the short side of your ring (im a dressage rider, so bear with me on the explanation) ride a 4 - loop serpentine. So long side, 5 meter half turn to quarter line, 5 meter half turn to center line, 5 meter half turn to next quarter line, then 5 meter half turn to other long side.
Repeat back. Many times.
At first, just ride the pattern. Then as the horse anticipates, try to use less hand to make the turns - just an opening rein. NOT lowering your hands or tipping forward (really, wth??).
As this gets better, think about using your outside legs to make the turn and less openng rein.
Then finally, try to yield the horse out a bit on the ‘loopy’ part of the turns to teach him about inside leg to outside rein.

[merrygoround]

@skydy

I suggest that you find another trainer to give you a second opinion about how to ride this horse. Your trainer’s instruction about how to ride him seems very odd to me.:

[Quote bornfreenowexpensive] -Hands at your knees do not get a horse to stretch over their top line. Pick up any decent dressage book. Dropping your hands to your knees locks your elbows and arms, alters your balance and in general is very incorrect. Doing more lateral work is typically what you need to get a horse to stretch and engaged. Low hands does not mean hands below the withers. Something is very odd about this post and the instruction given.[Quote]

Some of the other statements by your “trainer” are also erroneous. Also,I would hope that that is her/his horse, or if it is yours you find an equine veterinarian to assess it.

[Arlomine]

Oh dear. I’m a dressage trainer with a background in jumping, and I am sorry to say that you are receiving very poor education.

If indeed you are being instructed to carry your hands literally below your knees and so wide, you need to find another trainer pronto.

Please educate yourself a little bit and look at some Dressage training books and articles. Look at some good hunter/jumper books… You will simply never ever see this. There is a reason.

Of course you can’t have a seat or any kind of balance because you were being given terrible advice. No one could balance riding the way you’re being educated. Get on the Internet and look at photos and videos of good riders in the discipline of your choice.

Any excuse that your trainer is making to make you ride this way is in error. This is not something that good riders do to make their horses look normal.

I’m really sorry to sound so negative, but I feel like I would be negligent to not speak up.

[NaturallyHappy]

@Arlomine

Oh dear. I’m a dressage trainer with a background in jumping, and I am sorry to say that you are receiving very poor education.

If indeed you are being instructed to carry your hands literally below your knees and so wide, you need to find another trainer pronto.

Please educate yourself a little bit and look at some Dressage training books and articles. Look at some good hunter/jumper books… You will simply never ever see this. There is a reason.

Of course you can’t have a seat or any kind of balance because you were being given terrible advice. No one could balance riding the way you’re being educated. Get on the Internet and look at photos and videos of good riders in the discipline of your choice.

Any excuse that your trainer is making to make you ride this way is in error. This is not something that good riders do to make their horses look normal.

I’m really sorry to sound so negative, but I feel like I would be negligent to not speak up.

Agreed.

[Jackie_Cochran]

OP, one thing that I found extremely helpful when I am putting my hands down and forward more than usual, is to keep my face vertical. I also push out/forward with my waist.

With my face vertical I no long feel like I am going to dive headlong off the horse, as long as I keep my heels down and my butt pushed back.

There have been many times in my riding life when I lowered my hands to the level of my knees and spread my hands apart to coax the horse to meet the bit and lower his head (in response to my urging leg). My riding teacher does not especially like it when I do this, but after a ride or three the horse usually starts to understand what I am asking him to do. Then I can go back to my regular seat, until the next time.

[alternate_universe]

I do not believe that OP owns this horse, but I agree that these directions sound really bizarre. Blaming the situation on the horse having weirdly shaped legs is also very strange. I can’t even imagine what your trainer actually means by that. Typically, when we talk about leg conformation and we are talking about the length and angle of different parts and joints.

OP, do you have any photos or video of you riding this horse in this way?

[centaursam]

To address a few things, I do NOT own this horse, thankfully haha. I do agree with what some of you are saying in that I don’t think it’s a good match. I don’t remember the last time I’ve been so physically uncomfortable on a horse.

I’m aware that the way I’m riding this horse is not necessarily proper riding, hence why I came on here. And while I’m not here to bash my trainer, I suspect that perhaps not the greatest instruction is being provided at the moment, despite her helping me out tremendously with other horses in the past. Interestingly, he does not exhibit this behavior with her and he looks/rides like a “normal” horse when she rides him. And while she keeps her hands low, it’s not knee-height low.

The leg work you are all referring to makes perfect sense and I don’t mind that he’s hot/forward; at this point of my riding I much prefer those horses than really lazy ones.

@Jackie Cochran Interesting that you mention that because he does occasionally listen to the low hands. He’ll drop his head low and he generally calms down which makes for a much more normal ride. Sadly, this lasts for only a handful of strides and then everything falls apart. It’s a constant effort which doesn’t leave me much time to go back to a regular seat in between lapses.

Being obsessed with his head usually leaves me forgetting about mine as I’m sure my head/face are just as perched forward as the rest of my upper body. I will keep this in mind next time I ride.

@alternate_universe No video footage but I will most certainly get some next time I ride at all strides.

If I remember correctly, she mentioned something about his fetlocks being oddly shaped/proportioned and that he’s got arthritis in his forelimbs. I was riding at the time so I didn’t exactly pick up on what she was describing.

[DawgLady]

@centaursam

If I remember correctly, she mentioned something about his fetlocks being oddly shaped/proportioned and that he’s got arthritis in his forelimbs. I was riding at the time so I didn’t exactly pick up on what she was describing.

Getting a horse to “drop his head low” isn’t going to change anything about imperfect fetlocks and arthritis.

None of this sits well with me. I think it is a bad situation for yourself and this horse.

[Jenerationx]

I can’t picture hands below your knees unless your stirrups are really up there like a jockey’s. That just sounds like you’re completely out of balance, which isn’t helping either of you.

[centaursam]

@Jenerationx

I can’t picture hands below your knees unless your stirrups are really up there like a jockey’s. That just sounds like you’re completely out of balance, which isn’t helping either of you.

Haha no jockey stirrups. It’s horribly unbalancing and my shoulders and back do not appreciate it. I’m going to request another horse.

I don’t mind hot and/or temperamental horses but one that involves uncomfortable and painful body positions isn’t my cup of tea.

[Calvincrowe]

Is the horse also downhill in conformation-- like a QH or Paint might be? Is that his breed? Is this a western style trainer and you are riding English? That’s the first image that comes to mind as I read your description of what your horse is like and the trainer is asking you to do. I’ve seen this style of “head down low” riding and training in western barns.

If not…then you are receiving very odd instruction for the hunter/jumper world.