Thank you for the clear and concise explanation … which I know will continue to fall on deaf ears with the “due process” and “violation of constitutional rights” arguments. Again - membership in a club when one does not abide by the rules, is NOT a constitutional right.
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I can see that. I think as I watch it play out, maybe I’ll feel better. My biggest concern is that sexual abuse of any kind should go straight to law enforcement, kind of like states who require licensed professionals to report arrests and then disciplinary action on the license may follow. Ideally, any sexual abuse cases should be handled by law enforcement and then Safesport reacts accordingly after the verdict. At least in my perfect little world (which is full of caffeine because I haven’t slept in two days).
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Perhaps when you have had some sleep you will realize that Safe Sport is addressing a very prevalent problem that will not be solved only by kicking convicted rapists out of sports organizations.
There is an enormous problem of child abuse in Sport and it must be addressed. Doing nothing has not worked out very well for the victims.
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I urge you to read about what has gone on at college campuses with their rape allegation tribunals. Attending a particular college is not a constitutional right either, but they are facing a huge social and legal backlash for the way they have neglected the due process rights of the accused.
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I really admire how reasonable you’ve been in this conversation. :yes:
In a perfect world, law enforcement would be able to do something more than what they are allowed to do. But the problem is, they just uphold the law. They can take an abuser away in handcuffs under reasonable suspicion, but after that, they have little say in the matter. They don’t determine innocence or guilt-- that is the job of the courts. Complications of the legal system make it hard for the victims of sexual abuse. I don’t say that as an excuse, but just now in the 21st century are the problems surrounding conviction of sexual abusers getting the attention they deserve.
That’s why, in my opinion, we need something like SafeSport in place. And because of the pushback or the tendency of sports organizations to turn a blind eye, the government literally had to step in with this. Will it stop every incidence of abuse? Of course not. Is it perfect? No. But it’s a step in the right direction and establishes widespread norms for high risk areas that were previously unregulated.
Side note: I feel like a monster for not saying this earlier, but my many condolences go out to the friends and family of Rob Gage. This must be an unbelievably difficult time. A loss of life is always tragic.
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I happen to know for a fact that Safesport doesn’t act on anonymous reports. Actually, I don’t know how they would handle an accusation by someone who is still a minor. However, from personal experience, I know that they will not use an anonymous statement.
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Bingo
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That is absolutely 100% true. An accusation is not investigated unless you give your name.
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So, if the statute of limitations has run out, tough luck? What about standing up now, when it may be too late for criminal prosecution, for something which took place in the past? The threshold for for sanctions is different than for criminal charges as are the consequences.
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That’s never happened in the horse business, either.
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VIrginia Horse Mom, what a wonderful , thoughtful essay.
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I remember Rob Gage as a child from the mid 80’s on the Arizona Winter Circuit when he had Dutch Chocolate, a horse I totally idolized. Also because of his cameo in “Danny!”. I did not know him personally.
I am very out of the loop outside of short stirrup ponies, I am truly trying to figure this out!
What is the issue with Safesport? Is it because Safesport does not follow the same rules as real law regarding statute of limitations? Does it fail to provide a thorough investigation before banning someone? Does it throw out the name of the accused before any validation (i.e the investigation)?
On one hand, it concerns me all the passionate responses of what a nice guy he was and how horrible SS is. For sure he absolutely appears to be a friendly guy, wonderful friend, amazing horseman. If he had another side to him that involved sexual assault, none of that matters. He was YOUR great friend, he was somebody’s else’s attacker.
On the other hand, I understand that there are a lot of vengeful, crazy people in the horse world.
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Thanks. I’m almost always guilty of being way too wordy. This whole situation is really heartbreaking, and human and complicated. It seemed worth it to try to share a bit… my heart goes out to everyone hurting right now.
there are no easy answers. Not safe sport. Not the criminal justice system. It’s an age old problem. The best answer I know of is being a good adult, a good mom, and supporting the WONDERFUL youth coaches I have known and met. Be the change you wish to see. Be the adult you needed many moons ago as a young, vulnerable person.
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OMG! Finally! In all of this a parent who knows they are the ones to hold the line. I grew up riding at a very fancy barn in the 70s. My mother drove me up to the barn one day and Jimmy Williams was standing there talking to the trainer and our car windows were open. I hopped out of the car while she listened. I have no idea what she heard but she did not like it. She called out to me and told me to get back into the car right now. I protested. She said if I ever wanted to sit on another horse in this barn to get back into the car NOW! I was a super mad 15 year old but she took me home and sat me down and said in no uncertain terms that I was to never allow myself to be alone with that man and that I should make sure my friends knew that we all needed to stick together if he was anywhere on the property. And that if I would not absolutely promise her that I would never forget this I would never be allowed back there. I promised. My mama had street smarts and no hesitation about protecting me. I’m very lucky.
Here’s the thing: as much as we want all parents to step up and, you know, parent… it’s not going to magically happen overnight. It is SO awesome you have a great mom. Mine was also pretty awesome and because of it, I came out of some very questionable situations unscathed.
Parents still need to do their job. But SafeSport offers another layer of protection. There are plenty of statistics that show that children from unstable homes are more likely to become victims of sexual abuse. Obviously looping in the parent isn’t a panacea for those situations, but at least the next good mom who pulls up and overhears what your mom overheard has some recourse for reporting it.
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Wow. I’ve followed this story for along time - since seeing his name on the list a few months ago to now, and it’s taken me a while to come up with anything to say. I didn’t know Rob personally, but I have a lot of friends that did - and many are affected by this sudden loss of a man they held as a hero and cherised, and I do feel so awful for them. I know what it’s like to lose a loved one via suicide. It’s not an easy thing to deal with and I think everyone deserves to grieve in their own way, however I don’t think it’s fair for some to point blame at USEF.
USEF is not who handed down SafeSport, and I can happily provied the names of the political persons that carry the bill on their shoulders if you’d like to talk to them. Boycotting USEF doesn’t do anything. As we are an Olympic sport, we have to abide by SafeSport ruling and let SafeSport do their thing. Whether or not you agree or even think we should be an Olympic sport anymore is a whole nother go round.
But I have to say, one thing that has really stood out to me is the fact to so many people are saying “it was so long ago, things were different” and that is generally NOT the case. It took me nearly twenty years to come to the conclusion that the abuse that was done to me was not OKAY because of the time. It’s okay to become an adult, to become more away of yourself and your surroundings, and to form your own opinions away from family members and friends that forever defend those that abused you and realize that what happened to you was not okay. That your family member asking you for massages on their upper thigh because “you had the best hands in the house” as a CHILD is not okay and predatory behavior. For some people it takes a while. It takes a while of being on their own and figuring out their own lives to realize that things that were done to them when they were underage was not appropriate, no matter what the “time period” and “political vibe” was. None of us know the REAL story of what happened. Even those close to RG only got his side of the story - not the victims side - and none of us were there. Thats the real truth of it all, so I think we shouldn’t gang up on either side - and certainly we shouldn’t blame USEF for the death of someone.
On the other side, even as a victim of years of sexual abuse as a minor and then as a teenager and an adult that dealt with sexual harassment and stalking, I do think there are holes in SafeSport, and I’ve had very indepth converations with male trainers about how their own concerns with the movement. But I’d also never put only SafeSport as an umbrella to keep youth SAFE in this world. It falls back to parents - to education - to being PRESENT and going with your gut.
I happen to know someone of the safesport list, and I also feel in limbo about the way I feel for them - as I’m sure many of Rob Gage’s family and friends feel for him. This person is a great person beneath his demons. He’s done incredible things for the community, for charity, and would be the first to help if you call. It’s a very HARD place to be in.
I don’t even know where I’m going with this other than to say that it’s complicated. The whole process and the feelings with it all are complicated, especially when someone as “famous” as RG is put into the limelight and painted as the picture of “Why SafeSport Sucks”. It’s not that simple. And I think many people should take a step back and really do their research and due diligence before running after USEF and blaming them for someones death or pointing fingers at other victims, as they are doing on Facebook. It doesn’t get us anywhere. And its not the conversation we should be having.
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Minors are not the only people that should be protected by SafeSport and the USEF. ADULTS in the industry need protection too—From SafeSport and accusations that cannot be positively and absolutely verified. Especially about things that may or may not have happened 30-40 years ago. Where is the protection for ADULTS??? Clearly, the USEF is not protecting it’s adult members
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You’re right, adults can also be abused by authority figures but I know that’s not what you’re talking about. :rolleyes:
I find it appalling that people are more concerned with the reputation of professionals than with the sexual abuse of CHILDREN.
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Yes. There are reasons for statutes of limitations, and one of the main ones is that with the passage of time, memories fade, witnesses disappear, etc.-- thus making it hard to defend yourself against allegations. Suppose someone comes forward and says that Trainer X molested her at summer horse camp 30 years ago. Trainer X may know that his camp assistant and the other 5 girls at camp are witnesses to the fact that no abuse occurred–but how the heck is he going to find those people now and get them to testify???
There are many lawyers on this board, and we all know that even after just 2 or 3 years have passed, it is often difficult to find witnesses to an incident (people move, women marry and change their names etc.) and those you do find, sometimes don’t retain a clear memory of what happened.
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The harm of abuse exists on a range that varies for each situation and each person.
The harm of suicide is also wide ranging.
The objectives of SafeSport make sense – the way its applied may not.
What is lost in all of this is that SafeSport will not keep minors safe from abuse. Abusers will not play by these rules. Parents will not keep children safe from abuse (although they can help).
There is a huge missing piece here that has not been addressed. Let us focus on educating minors. That means providing the training and support for minors so that they can recognize inappropriate situation before they escalate, avoid situations that place them at risk, know how to handle an inappropriate situation, and have a place or places to turn to when something happens despite everything else. Let’s give minors the tools and avenues to take care of themselves.
How empowering would that be
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