@RugBug you took my post way out of context. I do not think it’s the same, merely pointing out horsemen can be terrible people who do terrible things but because they are that good at training horse and rider people look the other way.
I get you don’t like my posts but please don’t take them out of context.
And I’m pretty sure you have an opinion formed from Facebook. After reading through the Safe Sport website have you asked them any questions you may have?
You literally gave me no reasons as to why it’s not working. All of what you posted shows me you haven’t read anything but Facebook.
The only people I have seen panicking is the H/J people. And by only that literally means my hockey mom friends, soccer mom friends etc have not freaked out.
Actually, I did send an email to USEF.
And I just spelled out to you why I feel it isn’t working. Do you really feel that Safesport is totally fine exactly as it is right now?
I didn’t take it out of context. What I was pointing out is that most people will NOT look the other way when deciding if they want to train with an accused sexual abuser, especially of children. It is a label that society will not forget or overlook (and rightly so). They will let go of 'killed a few horses" much quicker. People are terrible all over the place, but deciding to take lessons from PV vs from an accused sexual predator is different ballgame and your self righteous comments about HLMom avoiding that argument is silly. I , personally, avoided it until now despite thinking it was ridiculous the first time I saw someone make note of it because I find it to be inane, not because it’s somehow irrefutable
My dear Fair Judy, there is an elephant in the room that many people here seem to be either unaware of, or that are just happily not mentioning. 
I have the utmost respect for your bravery.
This is the first time people have been put on blast for this. There have been many posts on this forum about people KNOWING about sexual abuse and turning a blind eye and still doing business with the trainer. Do you honestly think this all happened in a vacuum? Do you think that people who trained with the banned didn’t know just because you didn’t? A convicted child molester ranted on Vanessa Browns Facebook page about all this and demanded reinstatement. He’s banned for child molestation in three states! 50 people liked or loved that post because “it was 14 years ago”. Get a freakin grip.
So the email should have gone to Safe Sport. Ya know the people in charge of all this. So again please email the appropriate people.
No it needs tweaking but I’m not having a case of the vapors over it. Why? Because I got educated about it. Asked the appropriate people questions and I’m not morally bankrupt which allows me to have no fear.
I applaud your posts here and on Facebook. Know that many like myself stand behind you. I’m sorry you have to read such tripe.
You know, you really should learn to commiunicate like an adult. Get a grip is right.
For a lot of people, being ‘in the know’ vs accused and/or banned is a very different thing.
You also need to start understanding the numbers…50 people liking a post that has 800+ reactions on the main post and who know how many in the comments does not make a majority in any sense of the word. It’s 50 too many, for sure, but generalizing to everyone is not a good thing.
FWIW I have no idea who you are referring to (if they are convicted, say their damn name. Why do we still protect them in a shroud of anonymity here? COTH rules allow things of public record to be posted, so just freaking say it. If he’s convicted, he deserves having everyone s
make sure it’s known by every si glen person they can.) I read VBs post the day it was posted, saw the nasty comment about Anne Kursinski and decided I didnt need to go back and read more because it was just going to get very ugly. I choose not to participate with that. It’s a car crash and I’m not looking. I do think conversations on COTH [i]should[/] be a different kind of conversation, More civil like they used to be, but that’s not always the case.
@RugBug Jim Giorgio is the guy. Want the news article from the Current to verify? I’m not scared to name names. Not sure why you questioned that. And no I don’t need to understand numbers. All I need to know is 50 of those 800 support him.
And before you say it, I know exactly who he is being born and raised in CT.
ETA: My communication skills need refinement but I think you are trying to find reasons to be mad at another adult who questions your opinions and therefore looks at you sideways with no remorse. I don’t cater to the kinder world when people oppose things like Safe sport without being an adult and asking the appropriate people questions. I also expect adults to be able to do their own research. My standards are high I know. I just don’t suffer fools lightly.
And realize victims are reading and contributing to this thread. You are the one who needs to measure your words carefully. You are the one who is screaming “BUT!!!” at the top of your lungs.
I don’t care if you put the an article up. You are the one who mentioned him at least twice without saying his name. If you have no problem saying it, then Say it…as long as it falls within the rules of COTH.
Yes 50 out of many more than 800 reactions is too many. It’s still not a majority and drawing a broad conclusion from that like you’ve done is faulty at best. A lot of people on the internet are a-holes. Some of them are in real life.
ETA: My communication skills need refinement but I think you are trying to find reasons to be mad at another adult who questions your opinions and therefore looks at you sideways with no remorse. I don’t cater to the kinder world when people oppose things like Safe sport without being an adult and asking the appropriate people questions. I also expect adults to be able to do their own research. My standards are high I know. I just don’t suffer fools lightly.
im not mad, nor am I threatened by your posts or you ‘looking at me sideways’ because I find your posts to be passionate but lacking in much else. You can’t seem to distinguish anything outside of a theory of “you are either for Safe Sport, or your against it.” No matter what a person says or how many times they say they are in support of the concept of safe sport but have issues with how it’s being enacted, you label them supporting predators. You have a very black and white way of thinking about things from what I’ve seen…that’s fine and it will make you feel righteous and good and true. I used to think like that on a number of hot button issues and eventually found that while it was easy, it wasn’t seful for real dialogue, understanding or persuading anyone to see things differently.
And realize victims are reading and contributing to this thread. You are the one who needs to measure your words carefully. You are the one who is screaming “BUT!!!” at the top of your lungs.
if you think I’m screaming but at the top of my lungs, I can understand your passion in your responses. You are misreading me. I’m not. Perhaps that’s all you can hear over your own screaming. The only screaming I’m doing right now is at my iPad keyboard that manages to mangle words despite my best efforts.
Oh, BTW, I am a victim as well. I was 11 when my abuse started. My heart aches for other victims and for those that had it way worse than I ever did. That does not mean I can’t look at things with a rational, judgmental eye and be concerned.
I am so sorry for what you experienced. Please understand that in the case of this thread, despite the lies being spread on social media, this case is not an innocent person who just brushed up on someone. There are real victims and not just one underage girlfriend. As things quiet down and after loved ones have had some time to mourn, I do believe the truth will come out.
There was an exhaustive investigation. It was not a single consensual relationship with a minor.
@fairjudy,
This is a difficult thing for me. Reading all
of the “ Why didn’t the (victims) come forward previously?” are a knife to the gut. Most of you may remember my posts regarding my assault as a young teen by a particularly nasty individual. My personal experience in a mandated report with Safe Sport was one which gave a high level of confidence in the former LEO and FBI who were interviewing me. Do things need to be tweaked? Yes certainly as in every start up if such a massive undertaking. I can sure as hell tell you that in my case Decades of misdiagnosis could have been attenuated.
I hear you.
This issue, like the #metoo movement and the Kavanaugh hearings, have been triggering for me. I was abused by a family member, a boss at work and a teacher in my high school (a relationship that went on for years)
I talked briefly about the first case to other family members after getting therapy and was profoundly sorry I had spoken up. We don’t talk about it. I spoke about the second case, here on COTH, on the #metoo thread, for the first and only time. I have never discussed the third one with anyone, though believe me, lots of people knew and looked the other way.
I am 60 years old, a successful professional, married with an adult child with a wonderful support network of friends and community. I never reported any of it, and reading this thread and others like it confirms my belief that is a good decision.
I Googled last night and found out that the abuser in the third case is dead; the first two are dead long since.
I Googled two nights ago and found my old working student who had been seriously abused by a previous trainer and reconnected with her. Her abuser is now dead as well.
I cannot imagine what strength and courage (and willingness to have their lives thrown into turmoil) it took for these individuals to report what happened, whether it was 40 years ago or four weeks ago. And every time I hear “Why now? Why didn’t they come forward previously?” it confirms my decision to keep my mouth shut and carry on. At some personal cost.
Did it occur to you that the narrative currently on social media is wrong? The victim shaming occurring on FB is despicable. There was a thorough investigation. There were multiple victims. Did the possibility occur to you that he committed suicide when he realized he could not overcome the overwhelming evidence?
Actually, that’s not true. I know a mother who has let her daughter be coached by him. She never let her out of her sight or be alone with him, not even let him sit next to her daughter…but she knew his history not as a victim but as the childhood friend of one.
YES!!!
Exactly - I am heavily involved in other sports where they have to abide by Safe Sport standards and I can tell you there is none of this going on. USA Hockey, USA Soccer - nothing. Everyone abides by the rules. One thing I found really interesting was all the trainers complaining about the SUGGESTION of not communicating directly with the student. In all the years my kids have played other sports (and at a very high club level) not once did the coach communicate directly with them. It was always through the parents. If there was a question, the coach reached out to the parent or asked the player during a practice or a game to have the parent contact them. Of course not while they were actually coaching them (just so my comment is taken out of context here which seems to be the norm on this thread).
I have never seen a bigger bunch of spoiled brats stomping their feet and having tantrums. I get it, they don’t understand Safe Sport and unless you have been involved in the process, from the outside it can appear murky but come on people. I can tell you, they do not follow through on anonymous claims however, the information is taken into consideration. The accuser has to provide a SIGNIFICANT amount of detail which has to be corroborated. There is a lengthy investigation where all parties are questioned. If the accused is found guilty they can appeal. The accused is allowed representation. The arbitrators are retired judges. If you read the materials you can see that the appeal process is run through JAMs.
If someone is suspended they can’t attend USEF events - that’s it, end of story. No one goes to jail. IT IS A CLUB. Teachers, private sector employees are suspended pending the outcome of investigations. No one cries witch hunt then?? Given the amount of support being provided on Facebook for abusers, it is very easy to tell that none of these people are going to suffer financially for the pain and suffering they caused the people they abused.
As for not coming forward for 30 years. As a teenager going through something like this - say especially in the 70’s and 80’s. NO ONE would believe you. You would be labeled a trouble maker and black balled with nowhere to ride. And if anyone thinks that statement is untrue… it is currently 2019 and the victims are being drawn and quartered on Facebook as I write this. Trainers are untouchable gods - it’s pathetic.
I felt my email was better directed at USEF. However, If USEF directs me to email safesport I will. No need for being snarky.
I think that the fact that you can’t have a decent conversation without immediately attacking who you are talking to really speaks for itself.
It is disgusting. I hope anyone who has reported to safesport is staying far away from that trash fire right now.
But It’s the words of scared people who don’t know what’s going on. I think that in itself shows that USEF or SafeSport failed. The fact that the facts weren’t all there to begin with, and it caused people to jump to conclusions, means something went wrong.
I personally still feel like SafeSport is very vague on how they investigate, and what constitutes enough evidence to punish someone. That doesn’t mean I’m saying “away with safesport!” It just means I want more information. I feel that Knowledge is the death of confusion and terror.
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