Rob Gage

[nycjumper]

@Denali6298

Why is it so hard to go to the Safe Sport web site and read? Why is it so hard to contact Safe Sport with questions?

It’s not but most people won’t do it. I think USEF would have done themselves a huge favor by explaining what safesport is, what the process entails and why they’re doing it. Write the narrative instead of spending time trying to convince people after the fact. The USEF has made questionable choices in this - ie, they will publish the names of those on the interim list but not publish if they are removed (I can think of at least one I know was put on the list and then his name quietly removed). If anything, I think people would want to know that there is an investigation and it’s not automatic.

[Peggy]

@fordtraktor

In CA anyone who has sex with a person under 18 is guilty of a statutory rape, full stop. Even another minor. Unless they are married.

I don’t know the details of Rob’s situation at all, but I am not sure we want to go around handing out lifetime bans to every equestrian who had sex before the age of 18. I am sure a lot of us would be on that list…

True, but my comment was in reference to the person who is 18/o who has sex with a minor. Not the minor having sex.

[shedllybip]

I am by no means sticking up for USEF - altho I find blaming them directly and whole-heartedly to be wrong. This is certainly a terrible tragedy. That being said, did all of these “friends” of Rob take the time to check in on him? Did they all call him to see how he was doing? Offer to take him somewhere to get help? Or is it just easier to place blame somewhere other than themselves?

[BeeHoney]

I think it is really painful for a number of people that things they were able to get away with a few decades ago are now catching up with them. The things these trainers did were as wrong then as they are now, but a deeply entrenched industry culture protected them.

Of course, all Safe Sport can do is to ban a person from USEF activities and competitions. There’s no jail time and no criminal record, no being recorded as a sex offender. A perpetrator is still free to work, travel and conduct business (just not under the auspices of USEF). All things considered, getting kicked out of a sports club is a pretty weak punishment for a terrible crime like sexually abusing minors. I think it is a huge stretch to blame Safe Sport for anyone’s suicide. I think that more appropriately we should be worried about the victims of these abusive situations.

Our industry culture still has a long way to go. Many people still believe that a trainer who was a great guy, or did nice things for people, or was a great clinician, or who moved in respectable social circles couldn’t possibly have also been sexually abusing kids. Many people also still believe that the best way to deal with predators in our midst is to simply protect your own children and wait for law enforcement to deal with it, which plainly leaves predators still with many potential victims and in some cases a lifetime of opportunity and does zero to stop ongoing abuse. Victim shaming is rampant, especially if the perpetrator was well known or well-liked. Trainers who are well known to behave inappropriately, drug horses, and cheat in business dealings are still able to do a thriving business within the industry, whether at USEF sanctioned events or not.

Personally, I think what people really don’t like about Safe Sport is that the results of their investigations are not made public. No matter how through or correct an investigation might have been, I think it is really hard for a lot of people to trust that process without being privy to all the details. If you read the Safe Sport policies, the investigative procedure is fairly intense and is conducted by professionally trained investigators. It’s definitely worth a read to assure yourself that the process is legitimate.

[HLMom]

So I don’t know what the allegations were against Rob Gage, but what surprises me about this is that (1) there is talk about the incident(s) having occurred decades ago and (2) He received a lifetime ban.

In the criminal law, we have concepts of rehabilitation, remorse, good behavior, etc. As far as I know, only murder can put you away for life.

I guess my question is: how does Safesport come up with the sentence? Doesn’t a “lifetime ban” seem harsh with no possibility of redeeming yourself through education, rehabilitation, community service, years of impeccable behavior, etc.? Can a misjudgment or bad act in your 20’s really have life-long consequences with no potential for redemption or mercy?

[Andrew]

Our Society is TOTALLY out of control today…Agree with Vanxe…

[Denali6298]

@nycjumper

It’s not but most people won’t do it. I think USEF would have done themselves a huge favor by explaining what safesport is, what the process entails and why they’re doing it. Write the narrative instead of spending time trying to convince people after the fact. The USEF has made questionable choices in this - ie, they will publish the names of those on the interim list but not publish if they are removed (I can think of at least one I know was put on the list and then his name quietly removed). If anything, I think people would want to know that there is an investigation and it’s not automatic.

Then that’s their problem. The USEF is doing what is required of them. I swear horse people live to stay ignorant.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/usef-and-the-u-s-center-for-safesport-answer-your-safesport-questions?fbclid=IwAR0fbgpS3Yh5f78kv8YE-Ph33iRR9-rJZJNzygUhcqE7urCoQ9RG1IHm7_Y

Here is a heaping spoonful of information. Take small bites.

[caryledee]

@nycjumper

It’s not but most people won’t do it. I think USEF would have done themselves a huge favor by explaining what safesport is, what the process entails and why they’re doing it. Write the narrative instead of spending time trying to convince people after the fact. The USEF has made questionable choices in this - ie, they will publish the names of those on the interim list but not publish if they are removed (I can think of at least one I know was put on the list and then his name quietly removed). If anything, I think people would want to know that there is an investigation and it’s not automatic.

Huh? There is a link at the top of the website labeled SAFE SPORT. There is a brochure you can download under that link that covers the process thoroughly. Any questions can be addressed to the emails listed. The problem is that no one reads for comprehension anymore. I don’t know how else you expect USEF to explain this to you.

[nycjumper]

@Denali6298

Then that’s their problem. The USEF is doing what is required of them. I swear horse people live to stay ignorant.

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…rCoQ9RG1IHm7_Y

Here is a heaping spoonful of information. Take small bites.

I don’t need it. I’ve done my reading;) I’m also not bashing Safesport. You can bemoan the reality of people not reading or looking things up. I’m being pragmatic.

[Denali6298]

@HLMom

So I don’t know what the allegations were against Rob Gage, but what surprises me about this is that (1) there is talk about the incident(s) having occurred decades ago and (2) He received a lifetime ban.

In the criminal law, we have concepts of rehabilitation, remorse, good behavior, etc. As far as I know, only murder can put you away for life.

I guess my question is: how does Safesport come up with the sentence? Doesn’t a “lifetime ban” seem harsh with no possibility of redeeming yourself through education, rehabilitation, community service, years of impeccable behavior, etc.? Can a misjudgment or bad act in your 20’s really have life-long consequences with no potential for redemption or mercy?

So in your opinion, someone who commits statutory rape or sexually assaults a minor should eventually be allowed to be around kids?

Yes “misjudgments” in your 20’s can impact you for life. That’s life. Also this is a ban from horse shows. Not a jail sentence. The two are not remotely even close in terms of harshness.

[Denali6298]

@nycjumper

I don’t need it. I’ve done my reading;) I’m also not bashing Safesport. You can bemoan the reality of people not reading or looking things up. I’m being pragmatic.

I’m sorry I quoted you but my link and last sentence wasn’t directed toward you. I do apologize. I don’t bemoan it, I just think they’re fools.

[fordtraktor]

@Denali6298

So in your opinion, someone who commits statutory rape or sexually assaults a minor should eventually be allowed to be around kids?

Yes “misjudgments” in your 20’s can impact you for life. That’s life. Also this is a ban from horse shows. Not a jail sentence. The two are not remotely even close interns of harshness.

Like I said above, be careful about “statutory rape.” two 17 year olds having sex are both committing statutory rape in CA. That should not be the line in the sand, IMO. Physical rape is very different and of course should not be tolerated.

[comeoutandplay]

@Didi

I have to agree with @MyssMyst here. I am also for the implication of a policing measure to stop abuse of minors. I have NO problem with bringing attention to predators and protecting young people. I am a survivor myself (though not from equestrian activities). I understand what a victim goes through on a very personal level. I also understand that 98% of reports are made by people being truthful and without malice. HOWEVER, we also have to accept that, in its current form, there is room for abuse in the Safe Sport format. To deny that and beat our breasts indignantly will not help SafeSport to become the most effective tool it can be. We need to address issues and refine and improve the process.

My example in my earlier post was of a female trainer who was losing clients. She threatened a male trainer that if he accepted any of her clients she would claim that he used an abuse of power (she was not a minor) to induce her into a sexual relationship. He did not accept the clients because he understood the “guilty until proven innocent” timbre of Safe Sport.

We must remain open minded and not just shout each other down when we present opposing views.

I think I asked this in your previous thread but never got a response, did you report the female trainer’s actions to safesport? It is harassment and if you’re a member then you have an obligation to report it.

[Max123]

@caryledee

Safe Sport was signed into law by President Trump in February 2018. USEF is following the law. If anyone is upset about this, write Trump, write Congress, tell them how awful it is. USEF has very little say in these matters.

Diane Feinstein drafted it …

[greysfordays]

@equestrian_mom

For anyone wondering how Safesport works.

https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/sports/item/safe-sport-series-the-systemic-problems-in-sport-that-leave-athletes-at-risk-of-abuse

This is helpful for the broader context, but I don’t think it addresses the specific questions of how investigations are conducted by USEF.

This board is littered with outrage for how USEF handles things. So many of us feel the USEF does not have our backs. Can we all agree for example, how poorly USEF handled the drug case with LG and KF? You read Deloise in America’s recap of the USEF annual meetings and it does not inspire confidence.

Now we’re supposed to feel sure that they’re getting it right on something as hugely impactful as child sexual abuse? And the proceedings are kind of … opaque? There’s not much clarity on how investigations work. Just lots of rumors swirling and people getting justifiably upset.

I’m not saying Rob didn’t deserve to get set down, I’m saying I don’t have a lot of confidence USEF is the one that’s going to get us justice broadly speaking. Without more transparency, people are going to point to the history of USEF doing a terrible job governing. And there is a lot of evidence supporting that.

I am hugely supportive of SafeSport generally and that we are moving to a place where victims can feel safer coming forward and being heard. I just hate that USEF is in charge.

[Jealoushe]

@GPjumper

They didn’t on this. I know because there wasn’t time. Plus the investigator I spoke to had no formal training. This isn’t a profesional. It’s two amateurs in a he said/she said from years ago.

Are you the victim or a witness? PM if you want or obviously don’t answer if not comfortable.

[Foxy_Co]

I’ve been hesitant to jump in the Safe Sport debate, especially with respect to RG’s passing. The issue I can’t get over is that he was deemed permanently ineligible in the midst of the investigations, without any official ruling or closure to the investigations. Safe Sport has the means for interim measure suspension during ongoing investigations which I believe to be more appropriate, rather than pursuing the investigation as guilty until proven innocent. Suspend for the time frame needed, have due process, and thoroughly investigate before completely destroying a person. This was his entire life, and maybe there really were things in his past that came back to bite him. That much is fair, there’s no denying that if something was done wrong, it should be investigated and proper action should be taken. But how many times are allegations investigated at organizations where individuals are put on temporary leave for due process, and not immediately suspended or fired. It’s just terribly unfortunate in every way.

[Jealoushe]

@marginall

Horse people will vehemently defend trainers who are accused of sexual misconduct with minors saying SafeSport is unfair and in the next breath, volunteer to report a “shamateur” based on second-hand knowledge on an anonymous forum.

Horse people will stay with trainers who sleep with underage grooms, use illegal drugs and sensitize horses’ legs at shows, and sell them broken horses with padded commissions, but publicly shame an international Grand Prix rider because she wears feathers in her hair.

Best thing about our sport? Horses. Worse thing? People.

WOW. Right on the freakin money!!!

[Denali6298]

@fordtraktor

Like I said above, be careful about “statutory rape.” two 17 year olds having sex are both committing statutory rape in CA. That should not be the line in the sand, IMO. Physical rape is very different and of course should not be tolerated.

I have nothing to be careful about. I am not 17 and having sex. I do not live in California. I am not having sex with minors period. Nor am I alluding to 17 year olds that I know having sex. I do not engage in conversation with minors about sex or other personal issues.

I am am simply pointing out that one’s choices at 20 can and do impact people for the rest of their lives.

Also I don’t see anything in the law that says two 17 year olds can’t have sex. Please provide a link.

[GPjumper]

@Jealoushe

Are you the victim or a witness? PM if you want or obviously don’t answer if not comfortable.

Sent you a PM. I don’t feel comfortable giving out too many details publicly until it’s settled.