Robert !!!!

howdy all, i happen to think that Robert Dover, although too old for me, is a fabulous looking guy. so, here, to all of his fans, i have posted a few pics that you may all enjoy !!! p.s. any robert fans got a good website about him or know of any? id love to hear from you !
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20000911/sp/imdf90727.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20000911/wl/imdf90707.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20000926/sp/olympics_usa_i6m.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20000927/sp/olympics_usa_f0u.html

sorry, gunther just won’t do it for me. i’m trying to think what living male dressage rider’s looks appeal to me…CAN’T THINK OF ONE.

lemme see! now, herbert rehbein was sort of cute - that little TUMMY. or big.

i gotta go with Louise on this one. I don’t find any speculation about people’s private lives to be interesting or particularly comfortable. what they do on the horse is all i care about, and how well they follow the rules and behave as a sportsperson.

i don’t feel perfectionism and the other negative traits are universal traits, especially of upper level riders.

i’ve found the negative traits to be much more a problem of lower level dressage riders, rather than successful competitors.

there was a survey done of successful elite level athletes some years ago that really stuck in my mind. they were generally happy, busy, energetic, successful in many spheres of their lives, well adjusted and quite well liked. yes, many friends were connected with the sport, but that’s merely a practical matter, you don’t have time to go much of anywhere else.

i recall as a very successful bicycle racer, my moods and attitudes were very different. the business world encourages doubts and tension. instead, when training, i often felt a great deal of confidence, self assurance, patience, determination, and did not experience the mood swings, tensions and frustrations i find being a more sedentary person in the business world. i found being a full time ‘‘elite’’ (i didn’t quite get to the elite side before getting a career ending injury, but i did get to see some of what it was like) athlete to be satisfying, ennobling, and very life affirming and positive a life choice. it drew people to me and led to successes in many areas.

as the riders move up they get less and less arrogant, self conscious, perfectionist and difficult. they start to realize more and more how hard this business is and become more compassionate and flexible, instead of less. they learn how much sympathy they need to have for the horse to be successful, and how much responsibility they have for any failures - it’s humbling and life-affirming at the same time.

‘‘explain my orientation, etc’’.

honey, that means you don’t agree with me. and that’s fine.

by an elite athlete, i mean someone who’s competing at the level of the olympics, world championships, or other competitions at the top end of the sport. so for example, in my case, going to the world sprint championships, the national championships (yes, the nationals. in my case, even qualifying for the national championships meant i had to compete strongly against people like sue novarra-reber, who had 7 world sprint gold medals, connie paraskavin, and shiela young, which made getting to the nationals in my state a very top notch procedure, as that left ONE qualifying spot for all the rest of us girls to fight each other for).

by successful, i mean many things. i do not consider riders who have bad tempers, scream at people and act like jerks to be successful, whatever ribbons they may have, nor do i feel that crying at every horse show you don’t get first place at qualifies as good sportsmanship, although it’s not so much rude as pitiful.

success involves good sportsmanship and business dealings connected with the sport, such as selling horses honestly and representing them truthfully, and treating people decently.

i do feel many athletes lead well rounded lives overall, but i’d like to emphasize that at the peak of their careers, they MUST give up a great deal.

as tony meibock the speed skater told me, ‘‘this is my job, twenty four hours a day, to get ready for the olympics’’. but this period may only be 5-10 years of the person’s life. but yes, during that time, great sacrafices must be made.

as for perfectionism, the word has come to have a special meaning, specifically a negative one, to suggest the seeking of too much perfection, without practical orientation, and to the detriment of others. seeking perfection is like any personality trait - when it get out of balance or over exaggerated, it becomes a liability.

[This message has been edited by slc (edited 10-10-2000).]

Velvet, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you want to discuss, but maybe it would be more appropriate to start a new thread, instead of carrying on the conversation under “Robert!!!” That removes any question that a specific individual is being talked about.

I too have wondered why some people get so worked up about a frothy speculation. But maybe those who get so worked up have been negatively affected by speculation on their own lives? Also, don’t forget that there is always some element that will believe anything they read, which is why people pay to read about Alien Having Elvis’s Baby (in color!) on a weekly basis. We can qualify and disclaim until a herd of lawyers couldn’t find a loophole, and someone will read whatever it was, be certain its the GodsOwnTruth and tell 2 friends, who tell 2 friends, who tell 2 friends … That doesn’t mean we can’t talk about it, but merely that we have to take the aspect into consideration before we make comments. IMHO.

oh, my - can’t remember his name…but there’s a man in eastern Canada (QUE) who’s VERY easy on the eyes

Okay, Okay. Louise you caught us lusting in our hearts ala Jimmy Carter after some of male dressage riders and figures of the female ones. I find it no worse than lusting after Brad Pitt, Daniel Day-Lewis, or whoever. At least our fires are still burning. TO THE COLD SHOWERS EVERYONE!!!

[This message has been edited by marianne (edited 10-06-2000).]

RE: murky waters, accomplishing nothing.
Just need to share: when I was a child (the 70’s), I didn’t hear any discussion/speculation about sexual orientation. (Except one comment that “all the hunter guys are gay” but I was a Pony Club/eventer, so didn’t pay too much mind).
Well, I got to college, came out, and not knowing even any whispers of any gay riders, didn’t know you could be gay and ride. Sad but true. I got my H-A then took a decade off from all but occasional hacks on family horses.
10 years later, life worked out that I could have horses again, I have a wonderful partner, and am not full of the same identity questions I grappled with in college. But I try to work reference to my partner into conversation when talk about partners comes up in horsey discussion, to help break that invisibility.
I don’t particularly care the sexuality of any individual out there ( as long as my partner remains the wonderful lesbian she is ) but I am tickled to see reference in magazines to Robert’s work with the riders with AIDS organization (which certainly isn’t a declaration of sexuality, but which is more of one than I remember seeing as a child), or speculation about whoever, or see an article about Hap Hansen referring to a male partner (which certainly might have been a farm owner, coulda been an investor, or coulda been a sweetie. I don’t know.)
I just like the idea that maybe some other teenager will get the idea that you can ride at whatever level and be something other than a declared heterosexual…
OK, off my soapbox

Speculation might be harmless fun when you are hanging out with friends, but publicly pondering one’s orientation or (worse) outing someone can do more harm than good.

Just because someone might know a high-profile rider has a “partner” doesn’t give us the right to publicly announce that. Only that person can make the decision to publicize that relationsip or not. Sponsorships and endorsements are a big part of these people’s livlihood and could be jeopardized by such disclosures.

It would be great if the gray-area didn’t have to exist to protect these people’s private lives. It would be great that our society could accept everyone as they are. That’s not the case, unfortunately. It would be even greater if everyone just found the whole topic way too boring to comment on.

An example: I have a friend that worked in a sports medicine clinic that had many high-profile football and baseball stars as clients. My friend, who is gay, happened to know that some of these atheletes were gay as well. It probably wouldn’t sit very well with the beer-swigging guys in the stands to know that their star player is gay. Budweiser probably wouldn’t be as quick to get these players to endorse their products either. That’s sad, but that is where we are today.

Some would say if more high-profile celebrities would come out, it would be easier. I couldn’t really say. I respect everyone’s right to a private life and their choice to either publicize it or keep it private.

The funniest thing to me is when people bemoan the fact that this one is gay or that one just got married, like it really is going to affect your personal dating pool! As if Jennifer Anniston made Brad Pitt destroy your phone number!!

The new Dutch rider who rides Goliath and works with Anky. Good eye candy :> )

I’m glad you’ve had such success in your personal, professional and sport life, SLC.

What I have found in working around/for Olympic riders and coaches is that some are really nice and others are perfectionists and painful to be around when they are in the horsey element. The egos are rampant and the tempers are short (more so towards people than horses). This is the reason I asked a question. It’s all in fun and asking for people who are out here lusting to just state whether or not they really would like the fantasy to come true–if they think about it.

Sheesh, what a can of worms this whole thing became. It was entertaining and a tiny bit “National Enquirer-ish”, but I thought it was harmless fun out here. Speculating on peoples preferences shouldn’t be a big deal. Aren’t we supposed to be mature and accept that these things exist and it’s not harmful to talk about them? What is wrong with it? People ARE different and there’s nothing wrong with it…homogonization via political correctness is the problem. No one here was bashing or making durogatory comments. They were just discussing the potential that someone might have a different preference in their personal life, because others were discussing their attractiveness. No big deal. No bashing. If you don’t like that type of discussion don’t join it, but it wasn’t meant to be harmful and everyone was being polite.

Guess the fun is over…back to the politically correct world of all shades of grey (no blacks, whites, reds, blues, yellows or greens allowed).

[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 10-06-2000).]

Looking forward to the day when you can be ANYTHING you want and HAVE anything you want regardless of sexual oriantation, race, religion, gender, etc etc etc.

Jeb,

I like that one! Too true, everyone does seem to think they would have had an opportunity sometime.

I see your other points, as well. I guess I just don’t really care, except that there are times when someone seems like they are potentially available (not going down the celebrity road here)and it’s nice to know that they aren’t–for whatever reason.

I don’t think most of society is as jaded as the media, et al, think. I know that my circle of friends could care less…except that it’s nice information to have when you are thinking about asking someone out on a date. It’s not scandalous, it’s just extra information. Even the people who are strongly against one lifestyle or another for themselves usually aren’t nasty or necessarily judgmental towards those who live that way.

Maybe I’m naive and so are all of my friends. I mean, I watched a special on Rock Hudson with a friend of the opposite sex and we were both talking about how good looking he was. No problem with his lifestyle choice. We admired his acting and good looks and the rest was just additional information on the show, mostly because of how Hollywood made him keep it quiet. We didn’t really care.

I understand that it can become National Enquir-ish, but then again, it’s what happens and what has become expected in our society when you reach the top. (Not that I agree–it’s just how people seem to be wired.) I like it when people are good at keeping their private lives private and keep the paparazzi at bay. But I also think that we shouldn’t be shocked or titillated anymore by the information when it does become public. We should just say, “Oh, really?” and move on. No judgments passed, just another piece of information added to the vast pile of trivia most of us store these days (just watch "Who Wants to be a Millionaire).

Okay, enough said by me. Just keep wonder about the hub-bub. I like to think it doesn’t really matter now, and it really won’t matter at all in a million years…so who cares if we talk about or know about it? Just more of that unimportant information, but hopefully, harmless.

[This message has been edited by Velvet (edited 10-12-2000).]

howdy all, i happen to think that Robert Dover, although too old for me, is a fabulous looking guy. so, here, to all of his fans, i have posted a few pics that you may all enjoy !!! p.s. any robert fans got a good website about him or know of any? id love to hear from you !
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20000911/sp/imdf90727.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/nm/20000911/wl/imdf90707.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20000926/sp/olympics_usa_i6m.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/p/ap/20000927/sp/olympics_usa_f0u.html

Let’s not forget Steffen Peters. Too bad he is married, what a cutie!!!

scl, since I am, relatively speaking, new to the BB and your profile does not give much information as to your geographic location or occupation/interests, I was wondering if you could help me follow your line of thinking and understand your frame of reference?

Please define “successful competitor” and how it does not apply to lower level riders, also “elite athlete”, and finally how “perfectionism” is a negative trait.

I think these are somethings worth exploring here.

And I look forward to the day where we can return to the First Amendment and say anything we want and be responsible for our own actions and others reactions based on our own words.

(Just sick and tired of Political Correctness–for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post.)

I know that my circle of friends could care less…

But we tend to surround ourselves with people who think like us. And that colors our perception of how the world at large thinks. Right up until we’re hit in the face with the murder of someone who happened to be the “wrong” race/gender/orientation. I’m not curious enough to put someone else at risk.

Thanks! I love pics of Ranier. But then I am biased since he is a half brother (actually they are ‘same sire’) to my boy!

ToorO,

I almost said the same thing you did, then realized I wasn’t sure about the sex or orientation of the original poster.

I remember hearing about someone who is now doing incredibly well in their riding who supposedly was in a relationship with RD. Guess it worked out well for the riding part even if the relationship didn’t. Now there’s a question. We all know the saying about it being just as easy to fall in love with someone wealthy as it is with someone poor. How about falling for someone who can help advance your career?