Rooting? Please help

[prokaryote]

Hi,

I have a horse that is rooting. She is about 12. I am having the vet come out this weekend to go over her to make sure there aren’t any medical issues involved. Does anyone know of any that are common that cause rooting? Hocks? Back issues? Anything like that that I could bring up to the vet? Obviously the vet will be thorough but I just want to have my questions ready! Also, thoughts on chiropractors?

Her teeth are in good shape, they were just done so it isn’t the teeth. She is being ridden in a snaffle and has been for as long as I know. Open to suggestions.

Now, she has had some time off recently and is coming back into work. I am almost wondering if the rooting is just a bad habit the horse has done for a while. She does it with every rider. She does not have much of a hind end and is very powerful in her front end (as much as an unfit horse can be, since she is coming back to work now). I am working on hills to bring her hind end back up.

I will try to explain the best that I can how she roots, because I have read other threads on rooting and this mare sounds different than others. She pulls down and out, and when she gets her freedom, she speeds up. Some people suggest kicking…this would not be an option on this horse. She is very sensitive and a bit anxious. Soft and patient works best with her. I think if I kicked her, I would spend the rest of the day and perhaps another day trying to get her to calm down. So she speeds up when she gets freedom, and I take back and say whoa. She slows down, I soften my hand, but she still roots again, and the cycle repeats itself. Even while I am quietly bringing her back and saying whoa, she is diving down and trying to root. It is really difficult to deal with and I feel terrible! Sometimes I lift my hands straight up and it really helps.

She seems to be worse about rooting to the right than the left. It makes me wonder if it is a pain issue or a fitness issue. To the left I can almost ride with no contact and have a totally quiet horse (bear in mind, I have yet to get passed walking and trotting since she has started working again).

I’d love to hear if anyone has had a similar experience or anything. Any success stories?

[weixiao]

Is the rooting accompanied by any other pain indicators?

I had good luck with my sisters horse incorporating travers/reverse travers into transitions. When he got too straight and stiff through his body the rooting got worse and he was able to pull harder. Thinking about controlling his rib cage and hips and teaching him to lift his back and step under himself made a huge difference. That and fitness. He hardly does it now.

My gut reaction is that this sounds like an unfit horse evading and using their body incorrectly. Certainly worth ruling out pain, however, particularly if she is offering other symptoms.

[Kenike]

[QUOTE=prokaryote;7232518]
She does not have much of a hind end and is very powerful in her front end (as much as an unfit horse can be, since she is coming back to work now). [/QUOTE]

This is what stood out to me. Definitely being unfit isn’t helping, but just kicking wouldn’t help, either. What this tells me is she isn’t bringing her hind end under and back up. She’s going around pulling herself from the front and evading hands. The fix isn’t in the reins. The hills will help, though!

Sit down, get your leg on, use half-halts from your legs and seat to both slow her and force her to come underneath herself. Lots of transitions, always with VERY little rein! When she roots, half-halt, say whoa, and don’t pull. If she doesn’t respond, do it again more forcefully. If you have to, stop her in her tracks (again, reins shouldn’t be a thing here, don’t yank her mouth!). Make her wait for you before moving again.

Don’t be afraid to enlist a dressage trainer to help you achieve this.

Without seeing her, she very well may be a little sore coming back (athletes all can relate!), but the one side being worse is also more likely because horses are also right or left “handed.” She’ll root more to her weaker side.

Be patient, but diligent. Great job getting her checked out! And I love your name.

[kbrethauer]

Rooting is a pain indicator in my horse. I had his hocks injected the rooting went away. So, it could very well mean there is something going on for your horse. Good luck with the vet and I hope it is an easy fix!

[Huntin_Pony]

You’ve gotten lots of good advice with which I concur. Try all of that.

Short term if you can’t avoid the rooting, try letting one rein slide through your hand and anchor your other hand/firmly held rein in her mane or on her neck when she roots. This will reduce the whiplash effect on you and may discourage her without being contentious. Definitely try this at walk on medium-long reins first to see her reaction and do not do this at speed.

[NancyM]

An easy fix, if it is only training related, is a gag snaffle, for a while. Something with a soft and inviting mouthpiece, and two reins (one regular snaffle, one running rein). You ride without making any changes in the way you contact the mouth. When/if the horse goes to root, the running rein comes into effect, and the horse is unable to put the snaffle onto the bars of the mouth, the bit pulls up in the mouth instead. And the root is impossible. So you are able to remain soft in your contact. If this is just a habit, the habit tends to be broken in a few weeks or a month, and you can go back to your regular snaffle. Good luck.

[horsepoor]

May not apply, but one of mine is prone to rooting more when saddle fit is an issue. In particular, if the tree points are too tight and causing him discomfort, it seems this is his way to escape it. Just a thought.

[visorvet]

[QUOTE=kbrethauer;7233138]
Rooting is a pain indicator in my horse. I had his hocks injected the rooting went away. So, it could very well mean there is something going on for your horse. Good luck with the vet and I hope it is an easy fix![/QUOTE]

+100
Could be a training issue, but if she hasn’t done this in the past your instinct to rule out discomfort first is right on.

[doublesstable]

A lot of good direction given already.

I have had two young horses do this. Of course after checking for pain issues training resumed slowly getting them in shape.

I found it was more of a weak hind end issue and fitness. My trainer used two reins on one of my horses for better grip and over time he just stopped rooting.

Since you said she was out of training to me this makes sense but yes, check out any pain issues first.

[Foxtrot_s]

I was wondering if it was your hands, but she roots with every rider. I presume they are good riders and not hanging on to her mouth.

Is there a chiropractor around?

[incognito867]

transitions. do a million. or when she does it, do some lateral immediately. counter canter. standing martingale (with a rope or studded noseband if need be). german martingale. chambon. also make sure that your downward transitions are asked for first with your back, then seat, then hands if need be.

question though - does she do it with side reins on a lunge? if not, then its definitely rider related.

and it doesn’t matter if she does it with everyone. if even one person rides poorly and it isn’t corrected, it will become a habit. so my first advice is to check yourself to make sure you’re not the cause. then training techniques, with a vet check. there are a million great online articles and youtube videos as a free resource for ideas.

also - put her on bute/banamene for a few days to see if it helps. and it sounds like you need to evaluate your feeding system and check into ulcer medication.

[Bristol_Bay]

If you are sitting really deep and straight when she roots, she will pull you into the saddle instead of “winning” by getting the reins out of your grip.

How long has she been back at work? Even 30 to 45 minutes of a robust walk every day for two weeks will start to get the top line back. Maybe take it slower?

I had a rooter before. It was mostly on the trail, but just a terrible habit. Good luck, and it sounds like you are doing right by her.

[prokaryote]

She got a mostly clean bill of health yesterday from the vet. The only think the vet said was that she has arthritic hocks and that a lot of it is due to her conformation (she is straight in her hocks but her conformation is otherwise good). His advice was to have them injected if I’m planning on working her. Not a big surprise and I’m hoping that this is the source of the rooting.

Today I worked on half halts at the walk first, and then the trot and did some transitions. She responded very well to the left, and not so well to the right. I notice that she roots once we are stopped, and not always while moving, to take the entire length of the rein, even if I am not touching her mouth at all. Maybe this part is from habit? She doesn’t begin moving away from this point on until asked, she just wants to have her entire head to herself while still. It’s so strange and annoying! I am very patient and use my voice a lot to reward but correcting the issue is a hard one.

Trotting after working on half halts, she is like a walk-trot pony to the left. Very quiet and no rooting. can apply leg easily and she accepts it well. I am very pleased with this. To the right, I have bearing down on the bit and rooting, and she seems sensitive to leg when I try to bring her “up” from behind for a half halt. Again, I’m hoping that some of this is her fitness level and now that I have a positive diagnosis of arthritis in her hocks, I can kind of go from here.

Thank you all for the suggestions, and keep them coming! I will update as I tweak her a bit and continue her work. We will be progressing slowly since neither of us are spring chickens She will be seeing a chiropractor soon…I’m curious to know if anyone has experience with one, particularly with rooting issues. I will also update after her hocks are injected and as she gains muscle. She certainly isn’t happy about the hill work and lets me know that she protests!

[prokaryote]

[QUOTE=Bristol Bay;7236174]
If you are sitting really deep and straight when she roots, she will pull you into the saddle instead of “winning” by getting the reins out of your grip.

How long has she been back at work? Even 30 to 45 minutes of a robust walk every day for two weeks will start to get the top line back. Maybe take it slower?

I had a rooter before. It was mostly on the trail, but just a terrible habit. Good luck, and it sounds like you are doing right by her.[/QUOTE]

She has been back only five days now, two of those hand walking! From what I know of her previous owners, she did this before and received some training for it but they may have not investigated potential medical issues and perhaps never delved deeper into proper training for an answer.

Today, after 45 mins of walk/trot transitions and hills, she worked up quite a sweat in the chilly weather! I’m hoping to see a difference in a few weeks.

She never yanks the reins totally from me, but man does it kill the shoulders to have a rooter! I haven’t gotten to the point of jumping a full course on this one yet but I’m hoping to kind of get the habit under control before I have to :dead:

[doublesstable]

Now that you figured out her hock issue - that does take time for them to get comfortable from the injections - If I were you, once she is feeling okay in the hocks - try changing the bit. And as she roots, keep your seat deep like Bristol Bay said and let her mouth be punished by your set hand. If that doesn’t work, can you work with a trainer that may be strong enough to get her through this?

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=prokaryote;7236247]
She has been back only five days now,[/QUOTE]

I vote for weakness if she’s only been back 5 days. My horse has been in rehab and he wants to root. It’s a strenght issue for him as he starts off fine but as he gets tired, he starts rooting more. As he has gained fitness, the rooting is less and less. I just pay attention to when the rooting starts and that I’m not asking something he can’t physically do at the moment (I’m not.).

When he does root, the response is forward. To get the head up, the hind end needs to come under. He has no problem not rooting when he’s feeling sassy, because his hind end is already engaged…I just have to mimic that when he’s feeling lazy.

[Jumper_girl221]

Agree injecting her hocks might help.

What has helped me in the past with rooters that get quick…lightly squeeze and push them into the bridle while keeping a firm contact and directing them into a 20 meter working trot circle. Usually redirecting will help with a rooter and get them working off their hind end if done correctly from the seat and legs vs. jerking them into a circle with your hands.

[prokaryote]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7236912]
I vote for weakness if she’s only been back 5 days. My horse has been in rehab and he wants to root. It’s a strenght issue for him as he starts off fine but as he gets tired, he starts rooting more. As he has gained fitness, the rooting is less and less. I just pay attention to when the rooting starts and that I’m not asking something he can’t physically do at the moment (I’m not.).

When he does root, the response is forward. To get the head up, the hind end needs to come under. He has no problem not rooting when he’s feeling sassy, because his hind end is already engaged…I just have to mimic that when he’s feeling lazy. :)[/QUOTE]

Not having so much trouble with rooting at the trot now, but cantered for the first time today…woooo boy. That was rough. I don’t think my back will be right for a week. The whole front end of the horse went downward and the real rooting began… just awful! I tried to send her forward, but that was really forward! Do I just let her go on at a forward pace to avoid the rooting?

Hocks will be done by mid-week and I have found an amazing dressage trainer in the area (a little afraid of the price tag but surely well worth it, at least for a few lessons).

That canter was just brutal. It was so obvious she did not want anything to do with that!

[Sing_Mia_Song]

Glad to hear she has a clean bill of health. If she’s always done this with different riders, it sounds like a learned evasion.

I recently started working with a dressage trainer who does a LOT of babies and problem horses. Here is her absolutely brilliant fix for a horse who wants to snatch the bit or lean.

Lift your inside hand. I mean, lift your entire arm straight out in front of you like you’re toasting the freaking New Year. Seriously. Keep it out there until she is soft in the mouth. This can take a minute or two.

I want to stress that you’re not putting so much pressure on the rein that you’re actually pulling the bit up in her mouth. Rather, you’re putting the (very, very light) contact in such a place that she can’t yank forward and down.

The rest of your position and ride remains unchanged: quietly asking for proper forward motion without getting pushy. You’re just putting the bit and the rein in such a position that she has nothing to really yank on. Once she is moving forward politely, gently lower your rein down and continue on. If she does it again, resume toasting.

I find this works best on a 15-20 meter circle, at least at first. Sometimes they get a little confused and think you want them to circle, so let her do that. The point is to make it easier for her to be polite without having to get after her or get busy trying to manage her, especially if she has a tendency to get hot and tense.

My trainer is fond of averting her eyes from the horse and saying “I don’t care” aloud to him. It’s really quite a hoot. Now, if my guy gets heavy and I lift the arm, I can almost hear him sigh. :winkgrin: Then he gets light and straight like he’s supposed to.

[TheBrownHorse]

I’d say just stick to the trot for now. No need to canter, just work up her fitness at the trot, especially with this issue.

I’d say that the problem will still be there at the canter, when you do get there, but it will a) be lesser of a problem b) be a training problem and not a fitness problem and c) hopefully with these hock injections and fitness taken care of, not be as much of a problem, fitness problem, pain problem.

Good luck! awesome advice here.