I have a 16.3 h. TB mare with Pleasant Colony and Cox’s ridge lines. She has had a couple of foals and is coming 8, I feel a good time to try some frozen on her. Breeding for eventing. She needs a little substance, a better hind leg (slightly sickle hocked and a bit straight) and a good engine. Which of these two stallions do you think would be the better choice?
And who carries Royaldik semen in the US? Can’t find it anywhere!
I think Mighty Magic will be a good choice. What say?
I think Judy Yancey might carry it? She carries Grafenstolz and Kannan for the owner (of all three stallions).
without seeing the mare harder to say… can you link her pedigree? Mighty Magic has a much higher percentage of TB blood and has more true jumping genes however Royaldik could also give you a nice eventer or Hunter - not sure he would produce a high level jumper… but you never know.
I haven’t seen Royaldik but loved MM when I saw him. Charming stallion with lovely movement.
What kind of mover is she?
I like MM but on a full TB mare, I’d want to make sure she has outstanding movement.
For what you said you wanted…better hind end, more substance…I’d probably consider Grafenstolz. He’s got a few offspring now at the FEI levels in eventing and crosses well on TBs.
Check out Elizabeth’s youngsters. She has one by Mighty Magic and one by Grafenstolz. They are both very nice. The Grafenstolz boy is pretty spectacular.
http://cngsporthorses.com/sale.html
But as between the two that the OP posted…I’d pick Mighty Magic. But there are many other stallions I’d be considering as well.
Royaldik has a clear Rubinstein hindleg - nothing i would use for improving the hindleg. How Come These two different stallions are in your “pot” ? One a clear dressage stallion and the other a proven 3 day eventer on a clear Holstein jumper mare.
I like the Heraldik in both stallions and had heard they were both tops for producing eventers. Maybe not? There are lots of other stallions I am considering as well. Riverman and Chaleon are two. This is a foal I am considering for myself as I really love the mare. I don’t know how to copy the link to her pedigree…she is listed on allbreeds under Behrens Court.
Well, I have checked him Royaldik out: he himself was ridden by Michale Jung at some point: Resulted n placings in jumping classes upto Level M. Than he changed and was ridden dressage. Also placings im M** (which compares to level 3 but the more difficult tests of level 3).
Nevertheless even though Heraldik has been a good producer for 3 day event horses. Royaldik for the goal of breeding an eventer is not really what I would choose.
What about “Fred” ? (Sorry his “real” name just flipped my mind) he is available fresh in the USA ? I really like what I saw on pics and vieos from this stallion and I would appreciate if he would be available in Germany via frozen !
Here is a link to the pedigree of your mare:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/behrens+court
Just copy the URL from allbreed and paste it into your message.
Royaldik was not available in the U.S. in 2011, so unless something has changed, you’d have to import semen yourself from Europe (I’ve never done it, but JER, who posts here often, says it is fairly simple).
Also, Royaldik does not have Heraldik in his pedigree. His dam, Herka, is a full sister to Heraldik, hence the name, I presume.
We have a mare that is bred very similarly to yours - Pleasant Colony lines on the top, Best Turn lines on the bottom. For that it is worth, in 2011 we went with Grafenstolz for our mare; Graf was recommended earlier in this thread. If you want a preview of what a similarly bred mare might produce (without seeing your mare’s phenotype), check back with me in April/May.
We looked hard at MM and Royaldik last year, probably for many of the same reasons that you are interested in them.
This is just my observation based upon looking at video – I have no inside information, and would encourage you to communicate with the stallion handlers about your mare. Royaldik is 12, coming 13. He appears heavier, more dressage-y in his build, and it appears he is being pointed more in a dressage direction by his handlers. The Rubenstein on top suggests that direction. That said, he has been used to cover Headley Brittainia already (as has Grafenstolz), and that says something to me. He is 76% TB. His promotion to eventers is most likely based on the Herka/Heraldik connection described above. His handlers say that he crosses well on lighter mares. I don’t think there is much in the way of evidence yet, but my gut tells me he will do well as an event sire, and I personally like the stallion.
Mighty Magic, on the other hand, is eventing at the 3* level at age 8. He has a higher percentage of TB in his pedigree than does Royaldik. He is a Heraldik grandson. MM’s Spectacular Bid/Bold Bidder ancestry is also highly thought of for eventing, and his dam is linebred to Ladykiller.
Note also that Mighty Magic’s tail male goes back to Ribot; your mare has Ribot both top and bottom through sibling sons, so if you used him you would concentrate those Ribot lines (whether that is a good thing might be argued either way).
My prediction is that MM will be a better eventing sire than Royaldik. He has shown the ability to do it himself, certainly has the pedigree for it, and has a very high % of TB blood. We really don’t know yet, however.
We will probably use him in the future.
Just one person’s thoughts, based solely on publicly available information. Hope this helps.
I have used Mighty Magic on my Weston Justice/Incshallah11/Carnival Knight young mare for the reasons given by Peregrine Farm. He was for me the one to complement my home lines keeping the eventing bloodlines up, plus hopefully improving the movement and jump. TB blood is still vital I believe to produce a top level eventer.
Royaldik might produce some 2 star but is far more dressage bred, so I would question his use for eventing. Famous last words 
he will prossible prove me wrong but I just wouldnt take the chance.
I have seen Royaldik at the Bundeschampionat when he was either 5 or 6 (Do not 100& remember). He has a huuuge neck, is a heavy horse, has in my eyes a slow hinleg and as said above for me not really in option if breeding towards eventing. The first MM offspring has been licensed this year. MM has to my knowledge had a small injury in autumn, hence they have frozen him again. I have picked up frozen by him late in October, as he will not be available fresh next year. They will go on showing him and I think they have high hopes. What I wanted to express earklier: if Michi Jung had R already as a young horse and since I could see in my database from the show reciord he did some tiny XC with him, I assume that he was not good enough for the bigger things otherwise they would have kept him in training with MJ. He did classes that are lower that what you see at CIC* MM did win the young horse worldchampionships.
What should be noted: don expect that MM will refine his offspring. a lot of Germans went this way and were suprised in the first year. He throws substantial and if you have a heavy old fashione WB mare, he is for sure not a refining option. I also know that the Holstein Verband has him for the first time in their statistics from the evaluations that they do. I would need to look that up, but it was quite positive. I knwo a person who bred 16% of his Holstein branded offspring 
As said, R might be a good horse to get some TB influence and rideability into a dressage bred mare, but for a 3day horse - No, do not think that that is a good idea.
Grafenstolz, MM and “Fred” (A Fine Romance ?) should be much more interesting choices.
Or the newly licensed stallion at Celle stud: Canstakko out of Mr. Butts great mareline (related to Amadeus, Abraxxas etc.) - unproven but very interesting and I liked him a lot at licensing and preselection !. No idea whether there will be frozen already as he is turnig 3 in January.
I agree, My MM is much heavier than I thought - I bred him to a 1/2 TB mare and got a much more substantial horse ( and bigger!) than I thought I would. Nice youngster, but definitely heavier than his dam
Thank you so much for all of the input. I really do need to add some substance to my mare which is why I don’t really want to go with a full TB. She moves more like a hunter and I think needs a little more suspension, a little more “brilliance” maybe. I will definitely take RD off of my list and continue to think about the others. When I look at Grafenstoltz’ conformation pic he looks a little long in the back to me. Am I correct or is it just the pic? And Elizabeth, your young horses are stunning. I would love to breed myself a Rehobeth (name right?) which is why I am also considering Riverman.
I think the picture of Grafenstoltz is a bit deceptive. If you look at his videos and his offspring, they are not too long. But if you want to shorten the top line, add a nice hind leg…keep the movement and jump…I’d consider Escudo I.
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/escudo_i.htm
Boyd Martin suggested that I breed my TB mare to him for an UL event prospect. He bred some nice ones. One of Escudo’s daughters did quite well at Le Lion this year too.
My mare also needed a bit more substance, shorter top line and a better neck. Filly was everything I wanted (other than she is red).
I would give him some consideration. His frozen was outstanding.
My filly is below at 4months and long yearling and her dam so you can see the cross and improvement. The little girl can really jump too (and very nice movement for eventing–not what I would want for UL dressage, but then I don’t want that movement for an eventer as they usually lose their gallop).
But honestly…lots of nice stallions will fit your bill. Riverman is very nice but do have a reputation to be a bit tough (especially for the first 8-9 years). Very athletic though. I also thought hard about Lordanos for my TB mare…with the direction the sport is heading, I think keeping a good jump, good gallop, and a good mind are most important.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;6031301]
I think the picture of Grafenstoltz is a bit deceptive. If you look at his videos and his offspring, they are not too long. But if you want to shorten the top line, add a nice hind leg…keep the movement and jump…I’d consider Escudo I.
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/escudo_i.htm
Boyd Martin suggested that I breed my TB mare to him for an UL event prospect. He bred some nice ones. One of Escudo’s daughters did quite well at Le Lion this year too.
My mare also needed a bit more substance, shorter top line and a better neck. Filly was everything I wanted (other than she is red).
I would give him some consideration. His frozen was outstanding.
My filly is below at 4months and long yearling and her dam so you can see the cross and improvement. The little girl can really jump too (and very nice movement for eventing–not what I would want for UL dressage, but then I don’t want that movement for an eventer as they usually lose their gallop).
But honestly…lots of nice stallions will fit your bill. Riverman is very nice but do have a reputation to be a bit tough (especially for the first 8-9 years). Very athletic though. I also thought hard about Lordanos for my TB mare…with the direction the sport is heading, I think keeping a good jump, good gallop, and a good mind are most important.[/QUOTE]
Lordanos could Really be a great idea for a 3 day horse. Good minds very good jump and often good movement even for normal dressage
Escudo I see much more in the hunter and smaller jumping classes. I really like him but think that. The offspring is missing the bite for big jumping classes and for bigger 3 day tests. Love him but see him more in the amateur market horses.
I think Escudo was a right fit for this particular mare as she has more than enough jump and movement herself for top level eventing (per Boyd and others). I was hoping for a little more ammy mind on the filly…but I think the filly will be more like mama…oh well, that really isn’t a bad thing. Boyd can ride her As long as she jumps and moves as well! She’s extremely athletic and smart but it is always hard to tell. She did test things and jump a 5’ fence at 6 months (just because–it was witnessed, and the filly wasn’t stressed, just trotted, picked up a canter and jumped the fence because it was in her way) and luckily hasn’t done that again!
This mare is in foal to Grafenstolz now…and if I rebred her (I skip years with her and ride her in the off years)…I will seriously consider Lordanos for her next one.
The advantage for a sire like Escudo here in the USA is our hunter market. If you don’t get the UL event horse you want…you may get a show hunter and those are pretty marketable here. You just don’t want to breed for the more horizontal conformation of the show hunters if your goals are eventing…but otherwise (the mind and movement are not bad traits for eventers).
Born Free, I so agree that I do need to have a second option for the foal…for the hunters. The mare is very huntery in her movement and quite attractive (a little baroque in the head though). So I do keep in mind that the stallion should be attractive and throw attractive. I know that will bug the heck out of some people but in this country it is just a fact. I have bred for the upper levels of jumping before and got a very well conformed colt (through the legs and body) with a short stubby neck and thick throatlatch and a very plain head. This really matters if you want to sell them as youngsters. Besides, a well set on, long neck is a personal favorite for me. I won’t breed again without considering how attractive the horse will be. I want talent for at least the mid levels, attractiveness, ammy friendly temperment. This is what I aim for as a breeder. There are lots of stallions that would fit the bill here in the US. I love Chaleon for instance and will breed to him someday as well. I just wanted to try some frozen this year as I have a little money saved and probably won’t have the chance to do it again!
Fibbermagee,
Thank you ! Rehobeth is definitely a fantastic mare. However, she was a difficult ride for me ( older adult ammie, with limited time to ride) Athletic as hell, superb jump, great mover, but not for the faint of heart.
Really , really like the Graf baby - he has a gallop you cannot believe as a foal, and a great trot as well
Good luck!
