S/O: Are health certificates and Coggins worthless?

[CindyCRNA]

I think HC’s are. All they attest to is that at the time of the examination, the horse was well. I had another vet issue me a HC when they were at the barn when my regular vet wasn’t scheduled. Took a temp, charged $40. While I can see the purpose of a Coggins, a Coggins on 4/1 is still good on 3/1 of the next year and doesn’t state the current status of the horses EIA status.

And the governing bodies are even worse! We had a local show where 3 horses went home and within a week were showing symptoms of EHV-1 yet no one showing at the show was notified so they could quarantine their horses.

A better way? I don’t know. Possibly requiring proof of vaccinations would be more useful than a health certificate.

[mychestnutvalentine]

No because they have newer coggins that include the picture of the horse and are more detailed. Would like to see someone edit one of those!

[enjoytheride]

My coggins has a picture of my horse and is digital. Even though I think coggins are worthless I still spend the $30 on one once a year because they are required at shows. It’s a drop in the bucket along with spring shots and teeth.

[BellaMia]

I had an old barn owner steal my Coggins to use with his horse at a show who looked close enough to mine to pass. Needless to say, I was ticked and I moved.

[Salty]

I was taking a teenager to an event…asked her trainer for the Coggins. “Here, use this one!” sez she.

It was for a bay horse, & the kid’s horse was a leopard Appy.

The trainer was very put out when I said that the Coggins had better match the horse, or I wouldn’t be taking the kid, but she dug out the correct Coggins anyway.

[Sticky_Situation]

I don’t mind the annual Coggins … although it definitely isn’t 100% assurance that the horse isn’t infected at some other time during the year, if all the competing horses are tested regularly it will certainly decrease the likelihood that horses will be exposed to the disease, especially since EIA is pretty uncommon in most areas these days.

Health certificates, OTOH, I think are largely useless. All they demonstrate is that at an arbitrary point in the last 30 days the horse didn’t have a fever. And while I get my Coggins drawn with the spring vaccinations my horse would be receiving anyway, having to get a health certificate for every competition would mean paying the vet for a farm call once a month to take a temp and make sure the horse doesn’t appear grossly ill. (I don’t doubt that there may be vets out there that will pencil-whip them at request, particularly for big-name clients, but not the vet I use).

Any actual illness in a horse that recently traveled needs to be reported so that any potentially exposed animals can be identified … and just because the horse didn’t have a fever 2 weeks ago when the vet was out to do the HC doesn’t mean it can’t happen.

I’m fine with requiring proof of vaccinations … that is probably a more useful measure to prevent disease transmission than either Coggins or HC.

[frugalannie]

Here’s the thing. Some sick horses will actually be weeded out by a health certificate or Coggins. Granted that they have little to do with the horse’s status on the day they are presented. All they speak to is the day they were drawn/ examined. But sometimes that can identify sick horses, or horses becoming sick.

And frankly, what else do we have? Because there is no vaccination for EIA nor for many equine infectious diseases.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Actually many shows DO require proof of vaccination. A Health Certificate does require that a vet has recently looked at a horse. A coggins does show that a horse was at least tested and getting one makes people at least test once a year.

But really what would you propose as an alternative?

[kmwines01]

Health certificates weren’t designed for horses going to shows. They’re designed to track movement interstate for livestock. They provide tracking information for infectious disease if something does come up. Same with Coggins, you can track that animal and help direct quarantine.

I feel like people view EIA like smallpox. Not a direct analogy as there isn’t a vaccine… but public health initiative has enabled the disease to become super rare which is didn’t use to be. Coggins allows surveillance of disease and ability to quarantine and track a positive. It also serves as a means of population estimates for the horse population by the state.

[FLeventer]

I have up to date coggins on all my horses. I have two horses who are retired and dont leave the property. Still have a coggins drawn. I feel the people who put safety of the other horses at risk are selfish.

[Scribbler]

What kmwines said. Some things like this are a measure put in place to stop overall transmission of a disease rather than to protect individual horses. I always assumed the value of the Coggins was that you had to euthanize a horse that was a carrier, therefore taking that horse out of circulation. Hence why you needed a clean test to ship the horse out of state. It seems effective if it has reduced infection levels to zero or very low in most places.

Likewise, vaccinations also work on a population-wide basis and keep the incidence of the actual virus low in the population, as well as offering protection, or at least some protection (depending on the disease) to the individual.

[JP60]

I thought I remembered right.

https://useventing.com/news/new-usef-vaccination-rule#main-content

I do not think a coggins, HC, or now the vaccine report are worthless. While the thought it only represents a snapshot in time in regards to Coggins, it is the first step in seeing if there is an outbreak, the canary in the coal mine as it were. As another post pointed out, the rarity of the disease helps in the assurance that going to a show will not bring about a wide spread epidemic and since coggins tests are done at any time, then the randomness of the testing along with the rarity helps me (at least) feel better. That is why I find it horrible that anyone would attempt to fake it. What is the alternative?

I rarely travel out of state with my horse so it was a surprise when I was told I needed the HC bfore going into GA for a show. Since then I’ve needed a few more times and like all human systems, it is not perfect, but it is again a system to mitigate the potential for spreading illness. Again, the argument that right after the vet visit a horse could get sick is valid, but two things counter that; one is that the vet has to sign it so there is accountability to be factored in by a professional. The second is the owner who wants to do something with the horse inside those thirty days. Barring the evil doer, I would think most owners would be inclined to be mindful of their horse(s) before leaving and any sign of illness would stop them. A HC is a paper trail for accountability and in the event of something getting spread, the ability to coarsely track back to the source.

If we care about our horses, these documents should not be viewed as onerous, but an important part of their care. I’d favor a national registry for at least coggins, but even vaccines, perhaps managed by USEF so the effort of faking or swapping tests becomes that much harder and then shows could compare a test provided against the national base.

[frugalannie]

There is a sort of corollary in human medicine. Once upon a time a blood test was required before a marriage license was issued. The disease tested for was syphilis, and a positive test meant treatment, notification of the intended and tracking of sexual contacts. As a result, the transmission and frequency of syphilis decreased somewhat. Interestingly, when the requirement went away, the incidence of syphilis went up.

Before dispensing with premarital blood tests all together, other diseases had been added to the list including Tay-Sachs, rubella, sickle cell anemia and HIV. I haven’t read about why testing was dispensed with, but I’d guess patient privacy, changing mores and the fact that it only indicates status “on the day” except for genetic diseases (Tay-Sachs and sickle cell for example) all played a part.

But at the time it was effective in decreasing transmission and increasing treatment of a specific disease.

[frugalannie]

And JP60, I’m a little confused as to the wording in the notice you linked to. It says in the same (long) sentence that documentation is needed before entering the grounds and then it says before entering the stables. Just wondering what they really mean for ship-ins.

[Highflyer]

I don’t think a national database is realistic until we have universal microchipping-- and we are probably 10-15 years out from that, although I think we are certainly headed in that direction. Once we have that it could be made super easy to verify both the horse’s identity and its Coggins status/ vaccine history.

I do think that for USEF competitions it should be a requirement that names of horses on Coggins tests match names on entries. I’m not sure why this isn’t the case already-- the limited number of legitimate situations where a horse was sold with a valid Coggins and its name changed, don’t IMO merit the additional risk.

[QUOTE=JP60;8990522]
I thought I remembered right.

https://useventing.com/news/new-usef-vaccination-rule#main-content

I do not think a coggins, HC, or now the vaccine report are worthless. While the thought it only represents a snapshot in time in regards to Coggins, it is the first step in seeing if there is an outbreak, the canary in the coal mine as it were. As another post pointed out, the rarity of the disease helps in the assurance that going to a show will not bring about a wide spread epidemic and since coggins tests are done at any time, then the randomness of the testing along with the rarity helps me (at least) feel better. That is why I find it horrible that anyone would attempt to fake it. What is the alternative?

I rarely travel out of state with my horse so it was a surprise when I was told I needed the HC bfore going into GA for a show. Since then I’ve needed a few more times and like all human systems, it is not perfect, but it is again a system to mitigate the potential for spreading illness. Again, the argument that right after the vet visit a horse could get sick is valid, but two things counter that; one is that the vet has to sign it so there is accountability to be factored in by a professional. The second is the owner who wants to do something with the horse inside those thirty days. Barring the evil doer, I would think most owners would be inclined to be mindful of their horse(s) before leaving and any sign of illness would stop them. A HC is a paper trail for accountability and in the event of something getting spread, the ability to coarsely track back to the source.

If we care about our horses, these documents should not be viewed as onerous, but an important part of their care. I’d favor a national registry for at least coggins, but even vaccines, perhaps managed by USEF so the effort of faking or swapping tests becomes that much harder and then shows could compare a test provided against the national base.[/QUOTE]

[gumtree]

“I don’t think a national database is realistic until we have universal microchipping-- and we are probably 10-15 years out”

Starting next year all TBs foals that are registered with the JC will be “chipped”. It is optional this year. We are chipping ours, just received the paper work and the “chip”

[CindyCRNA]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8990202]
Actually many shows DO require proof of vaccination. A Health Certificate does require that a vet has recently looked at a horse. A coggins does show that a horse was at least tested and getting one makes people at least test once a year.

But really what would you propose as an alternative?[/QUOTE]

I think HC’s should not be required but here is my pet peive. If you state HC’s are required and will be checked, actually check them. Everyone says you will need a health certificate, I have never had anyone ask to see it. I think proof of vaccinations and Coggins is enough.

[merrygoround]

When a veterinarian makes out a HC there should then be a copy in his files, a copy for you and one sent ahead to an entity at the place of arrival IIRC.

And yes, I have had health certificates checked on site at shows.

And I wrote a Looooong explanation behind the thought for negative Coggins test on the thread re: Texas trainer.#341

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8990614]
“I don’t think a national database is realistic until we have universal microchipping-- and we are probably 10-15 years out”

Starting next year all TBs foals that are registered with the JC will be “chipped”. It is optional this year. We are chipping ours, just received the paper work and the “chip”[/QUOTE]

Good idea!

I found that the actual chip insertion was a “no big deal”.

[kmwines01]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8990883]
When a veterinarian makes out a HC there should then be a copy in his files, a copy for you and one sent ahead to an entity at the place of arrival IIRC.

And yes, I have had health certificates checked on site at shows.

And I wrote a Looooong explanation behind the thought for negative Coggins test on the thread re: Texas trainer.#341[/QUOT

The other copy doesn’t get send to the place of arrival, it goes to the state where it was issued. Copy for vet, copy for owner, copies to the state vet.