Almost exactly a year ago I purchased a green but good minded young warmblood gelding to be my second riding horse or a fun project to make up and sell. I figured I could take my time to make him up to be a nice all rounder. He was started later in life (5-6) and lightly so with only about 30-60 days on him when I got him. His PPE was stellar and no questionable anything on radiographs, including a perfect back. I got him home and started him off with some easy ground work–longeing and verbal command stuff, then took him over to my trainers within a week to ride. I hand walked him and let him hang out for a long time while I rode my other guy and then it was his turn. I had to get on from the ground and he had been very quiet and good for mounting when I had tried him (he is not super tall) but when I got on that day he immediately stood straight up for several long seconds. I kept my seat and when he came down I patted his neck and reassured him and then we walked and trotted around and he was fine. At no time did he seem particularly tense or nervous. Fast forward a couple months with more rides and ground work at home and one day in August I took him out to my ring and got on and was walking around while my husband was painting our run-in shed which is by my ring. The horse had seen him and walked by already but when we walked by under saddle he scooted forward in a leap which unseated me slightly and then he began to buck. I still was reasonably secure in the tack and I was trying to pull his head up and talk to him but then he really decided to buck in earnest and sent me flying. I got back on him and walked and trotted around and he was fine. I decided to send him to my coach to be in a full time professional program and get him going well, chalked the incidents up to green behavior and decided to wait to see what happened. I also decided I did not really have time or funding to bring along a second young horse right now. I am in my 50s, trying to really dial back on my professional career and have a husband who is close to retirement. But I want to do right by the horse. So, for the last 8 months he has been ridden 4-5 days a week by a pro, has been gone over, had saddle fit examined and had chiropractic work by the best vet in our very horsey area 2-3 times always with a good response and minimal soreness, has had his teeth done twice and has been showing at the local hunter level several times with excellent behavior and bravery, has been cross country schooling and was very brave and good. He has always been sound, goes in a french link full cheek snaffle and is cantering small courses with lead changes now. Then, this weekend my coach was out of town and asked if one of her other very competent students could put a ride on him. I said sure as it would be good for him and he had been excellent. Right after she got on and began walking to the ring he snorted and stood straight up, spun and then bucked in earnest to send her flying. She got back on and rode him and he was absolutely fine. He was not tense or worried when she got on initially and the weather was fine. He had already been ridden several times in the week before. The unprovoked and unpredictable nature of these dramatic explosions really makes my spidey sense go crazy. I had him for sale but at this point in good conscience I cannot sell him. I have contacted his breeder and am hoping they will take him
back and retire him as a babysitter. I don’t want any money back just a soft landing for the horse. He is as sweet as pie on the ground, very laid back, an easy keeper and the best boy to handle. I am also worried about EDM but I have limited funds and don’t want to spend 15,000 to work him up. I already lost one horse to EDM. I have done everything right by him I know how to do. At this point I feel he is unpredictable and dangerous under saddle. Everyone involved in his care is competent and experienced. It makes me frustrated and sad. If his breeder won’t take him back I don’t know what I will do. I already have three retired/unrideable horses at my farm costing me money. I can’t really support another without him having a job.
Has his back ever been x-rayed since the PPE? They can change as horses grow.
My kissing spine horse was the easiest and most tolerant creature from the moment he was born, except for one week without warning he’d buck everyone off… and then go back to normal.
I owned him for over a decade before we finally realized what was going on. He was extremely stoic and could work through a ton of pain… until he just couldn’t and he had to let it out. He did not palpitate as “back sore” until the very very end when we finally got the diagnosis. The soreness arose from the specific way he carried himself under saddle.
I had the ligament snipping surgery. Knock on wood he hasn’t bucked under saddle since coming back into work (and I know he can because he shows the skill off in the field on ocassion).
Another idea here is to check vision, though that seems less likely.
I also rode an eventer that would go on bucking sprees out of the blue. It turned out he was allergic to alflafa and it just make him loco in the most atypical way. He didn’t feel fresh or slugh high-- he just periodically lost his mind on it.
PPE was only a year ago. He is 7 and has not grown any since then. Same height and weight exactly. Just more muscled now.
And the films were pretty good quality? Done in a clinic? If so, yeah a year doesn’t seem like enough time for a back to change that much. I missed how short the timeline was.
They were not done in a clinic but the vet who did the ppe said it was the most pristine back he had ever seen.
Maybe I’m jaded, but there probably is a reason he was started late and it’s because of that quirk. Thank goodness no one has been seriously hurt.
Wishing the best for both of you.
Ditto.
I agree…and I would wonder about the neck. Or, perhaps he developed the skill and they tossed him out in a field hoping to successfully restart him. OP, if you are near a university, perhaps he could be donated as a blood donor horse, or something. I admire your conscience and your hope to find him a soft landing. I’m sorry this happened to you.
I tend to agree. Regardless of what the cause is, it probably didn’t appear for the first time in your care and it’s probably why he wasn’t further along when you bought him.
I wouldn’t fault you if you put the horse down. There’s too much liability in making one like this someone else’s problem, and as mentioned above, there’s always a chance his history will got lost down the line and someone will try to ride him again.
I’m so sorry.
Same with my gelding. A sweet, human-loving boy, 9 yo, with no other particular issues.
It was totally unpredictable – there just wasn’t much in common between the occasional big reactions, except that most happened at the mounting block. But most days he was fine.
I also had the one big blow-up incident with another rider getting on him. She was a small, light adult. The sweetest gelding sent her airborne with one of the biggest bucks from a standing start that I have ever seen.
That was it for me. No one else to get on him until he had a complete examination.
The kissing spine point was right under the saddle.
Have done surgery, now in long rehab. Things are better.
My friend has a blocky, medium-sized mare that has had some professional training and is very pleasantly rideable for most of an hour. But there are random moments in that hour that the mare suddenly reacts explosively.
A few professional colt-starters have been able to sit through it. If they don’t get pitched, they can get her back into a calm frame of mind. And keep riding quietly. But it is a high risk explosion, nothing that an ordinary ammy should be riding through.
The colt-starter who sat her the best, and was willing to training-ride her, rode her at her home, three times a week for several months. When she wasn’t in explosion mode, he could handle her well – she looked like an easy ride. But he finally quit the job when he decided that nothing was changing, he didn’t know why, and it wasn’t a rational risk to continue.
Usually a rider can get on her from a high mounting block, although she has reacted a few times at the block.
She does not do this on the longe without a rider. But longe work without a rider hasn’t made a difference.
The mare has been thoroughly examined and tested for everything anyone can think of. Twice, in different years. She vets completely sound. Nothing has been found as an explanation.
I’ve looked at video of her doing this, and not doing this, while being ridden. Half of this little horse community of experienced riders has looked at her videos. None of us has even a good guess as to what is going on.
Mare is now retired to pasture at a young age. Owner has given up and decided that it is just not worth the risk to humans. Mare is safe with this owner for the rest of mare’s life.
One thing I would like to point out is that to a young horse, spooking or making up ghosts and yes even bucking are all normal horse behaviors. How often do horses buck in turnout? To a horse bucking is not wrong. It’s up to the rider to teach them that it is wrong.
He snorted, suggesting that he saw something exciting or was feeling good prior to the episode.
I would probably talk to the person that rides him the most and see what their opinion is of his behavior. Do they feel safe continuing to work him? Do they feel like he is trustworthy under saddle? Or do they see concerning behaviors as well?
I’m not sure what you are seeing is a young horse having a dumb moment, or young horse with something seriously wrong with him?
I will say I have known friends that all have brought along young horses and have had a difficult time at certain points. One friend’s mare has a bit of a bucking issue if she gets overly excited and my friend broke her ribs. The other mare has done some spectacularly bad spook, buck, bolt. Mostly this was when she was younger and I’m thankful that she has outgrown it for the most part. My friend still says she doesn’t fully trust that horse although she does ride her a lot. Certain circumstances (like riding home by the road) tends to get the mare excited where she starts leaping around every which way and it certainly sounds difficult to sit.
Speak with the people who know the horse the best and go from there.
I have another friend who had several accidents and broken bones from her Arabian. She sold the horse with full disclosure and the new rider seems to be doing well
The mare was good but definitely a bit more complicated to ride and needed a rider who could really sit a spook.
Further to those thoughts … I’ve figured out that …
The horse world has professional colt-starters in it for a reason.
Everyone who has ridden the horse since I have owned him are capable competent riders who are able to sit a spook, a rear and a normal baby buck. This horse does not behave normally. He is fine 99% of the time and then he is not, and it is explosive and he wants to unload his rider. It is not triggered by excitement or adrenaline on his part. He has been in full time very capable professional training for 8 months. He has not been manhandled, coddled or overfaced. He is unpredictable and his explosions are unprovoked. I did chalk his behavior up to greenness at first, but now it seems it is more than that. Thank you everyone else who responded. I will explore donating to a university program also as he is so easy to handle on the ground.
Chiming in to same the same, some of what I read sounded like normal young horse behavior. OP did say that these behaviors seem unprovoked which doesn’t seem too normal, though. Even green horses will have a tell if you pay attention.
My experience with young horses may vary from others. I find they’re lambs at 4 and 5, but at 6 and 7 confident enough in their bodies and carrying the weight of a rider that they start to test their riders. I notice this more with WBs than TBs, WBs tend to take longer to accept the yoke of an honest day’s work. 
The rearing is problematic, not a good behavior to have installed and I’d want to see that behavior strongly discouraged by trainer’s discretion. Horses can’t rear or buck easily if they are being sent forward – and I mean FORWARD.
Not discrediting the suggestion to rule out pain, which is always a good thing to do when there are behavioral changes and/or misbehaviors. I don’t think it’s a bad idea in OP’s shoes to reassess if this is the right horse for her at this time - doesn’t matter how brilliant of a rider one is, sometimes things are just not the right fit for whatever reason, better to move along the horse before a party gets hurt. Trust your gut, you know the horse better than those of us behind a keyboard.
OP’s most recent reply that he is easy to handle on the ground makes it sound like there is something physical at play. IME young and frisky boundary-testing horses are equally frisky on/off saddle, and being docile for handling but unpredictable under saddle leans towards a physical component.
I just wanted to add that I’ve had and seen a couple horses like this with truly unpredictable, dangerous explosions that were eventually confirmed as EDM post mortem. It seems to pop up in some of the imported warmbloods. Some of the descriptions of this horse’s behavior have parallels to the sad cases I’ve seen. Just something to discuss with your vet, but it’s a diagnosis that’s usually only settled upon after eliminating everything else, and it can only be confirmed through necropsy. I know you lost one to this already, and I really hope this isn’t the case again. Sending jingles.
Commenting with very similar feelings at @outside_leg . Our vet has recently been telling us how EDM is popping up more and more frequently in the imported WBs, which is really sad. So much so that my trainer said she probably wouldn’t import again. There have been two recently from different clients that have been diagnosed and it’s heart breaking as they’re young, gorgeous, talented horses.
Three incidents in eight months is nothing. Three incidents with truly no trigger is concerning. This feels like a both/and where it is hard for strangers on the internet to assess.
My guess would be in all three he had a few rabbits going already (Warwick Schiller). If so, then the question is can whoever handles him accurately identify it and deescalate the behavior before he blows his lid.
All of that being said, I have one that stored rabbits easily and doesn’t come back down well. Even completely overwhelmed she has never stood up or bucked with the intention of lawn darting me.
While the pattern is likely not that unique the degree of the response does present true rider concern and I admire your ethics on pulling him off the market.
Rode a friend’s horse that was like this… I got launched right after mounting when I first started riding him which necessitated me reaching out to my trainer for guidance. Under her guidance, I restarted him from the ground up with what seemed like success! He got to be nearly perfect on the ground, a big sweetie, and I got him walk/trot/canter starting lateral work and even to a dressage schooling show! But in there were 3 blind panics when something spooked him (scary, never want to ride a horse that does this again) which I was able to sit because I was fully mounted. One of these was a sprinkler head that hadn’t retracted…
Somewhere in the success, I got launched right after mounting for the second time because I left the arena gate open which I had never done before. He must have bene fixated on the gate and not have realized I had gotten on because his response was akin to “Cougar!!! Ahhhhhhhhh”. At this point, I told my friend this is not a beginner safe horse at any time in the near future and consider selling with full disclosure. The third and final time I got launched at mounting was because the owner started handling him which was outside of our routine.
If he had been my horse, I think we could have gotten past these issues but he wasn’t on my dime. He needed a specific routine and lots of exposure while no one was on him so his panics didn’t result in the rider getting thrown. This was years ago that I worked with him, but I saw a FB post this month where he is doing really well with his new owner and showing dressage! Glad they were able to work through these issues and take advantage of all that training I did!
