Let’s just pray all turns out well for the people AND animals. I will be waiting to hear…
[QUOTE=Arcadien;5148357]
Okay, I went from hoping against hope that PP would show up here to defend herself with the full story -
To hoping that even after any legal ramifications of her posting here are nullified, she doesn’t bother.
Because NONE OF YOU DESERVE IT.
Just watched an interesting show on the Romans, where I shuddered in horror at the obvious glee in the actor-spectator faces when the complete stranger was torn apart by the lions or set on fire and burnt to death in the arena.
Then I recalled this thread, and realized -
We apparently haven’t changed. Apparently not most of us.
BURN you witch, BURN!!! Yeeehawwwww… (decades later, oh, you mean she wasn’t actually a witch? bummer for her… but it was fun to cheer on her roasting, wasn’t it!!!)
PP, do what you have to do, but please, don’t ever bother to give us obvious witch burning spectators a single clue. Judging by the majority of posts on this thread, we very obviously do not deserve it.
Your lack of information will of course irritate the spectators, but once they are done circling the blackened stake with your as of yet unjudged remains, they will get bored, I assure you.
A new victim will be the latest joy ride by then, I assure you!
Even more likely, the new victim will quite most likely be -
-cue shuddering, yet delighted sounds of feigned horror from the future spectators! -
ONE OF THEM[/QUOTE]
i had nightmares last night and have been worried all day about PP and i also have about lost my faith in humans.
what i have read here (and can only imagine what is going on over at fugly) is just horrendous.
humans suck. why be so cold hearted and just plain MEAN? i don’t get it. AT ALL. and again all i can say to those that suck: kharma is a bitch .
i feel so bad for PP. as i said before , she does not owe us anything …
I live far away but will happily donate money or fencing (i have tons on electric tape) or anything that is needed.
[QUOTE=tidy rabbit;5148426]
This thread is akin to a hamster eating it’s babies. Nothing like following COTHERS as the eat one of their own. :eek:[/QUOTE]
what is it about humans that they do this?
i dont get it 
I am as well, but if PP is smart she will play her cards close to her vest.
[QUOTE=Lieslot;5147930]
I still don’t get how someone can afford vet & farrier care + upkeep of 6 horses, when they haul kerosone to heat & use a generator for electricity. Or is life different in rural areas?[/QUOTE]
In my area, a lot of people live off the grid, either because they found property that was far from the nearest wires, or deliberately because they prefer to live that way. Most of them around here choose solar or wind type arrangements. Our terrain is rugged; I have line of sight to several such residences. (They, in turn, have amazing views.)
Running a generator would not be cheaper on a day to day basis, but it could be cheaper than paying the power company $50-$100k to run wires to your place.
Rural areas were the last to be electrified, so even some places that are on the grid may still have working windmill pumps from that time. There are places where that’s still the most practical way to water cattle.
I’m not sure how much this applies to PP’s situation in Maine, but being off the grid is not necessarily a sign of poverty.
BTW, a conviction for a loose animal is mostly about having the bad luck to have a loose animal and someone complaining. My dad was cited recently when a dog they had rescued a month earlier darted out the front door and started chasing a passing cyclist, who called Animal Control in terror of this corgi cross. My dad won in court, but it was a very random situation. By contrast, when my neighbor’s bull decided he’d always wanted to be a tourist and was wandering first through my fields and and then the neighborhood, we all just dealt with it until we could find him. No need to call any authority. And I didn’t call on my other neighbor’s Jack Russell, who not only has been to my place a dozen times, but comes and darts into my house. It was clear that the neighbor understood and was taking measures to make sure he was contained. A couple of times when I brought him back, the kids were sure he was still in the house…
How many of you think that’s adequate fencing to contain breeding stallions being kept in close proximity to mares in heat? IIRC, PP has about 8 acres, so not a particularly large piece of land.
[QUOTE=AppJumpr08;5148279]
Yes, it’s VERY different in rural areas. Plenty of people choose to live off the grid. Not because they can’t afford it, but because they want to.
Oftentimes electric service on rural roads around here is not trustworthy, and many folks decide to run off of solar/generators/wind to cut costs, or to have a more reliable source than the local power company (which charges an arm and a leg around here to begin with). Remember, pp’s pipes froze solid during an ice storm up here a couple years ago - with no generator, she had no way to keep them heated. And the aftermath of an ice storm isn’t exactly the time to go and buy a generator. So perhaps she decided to be self-sufficient. It’s happens a lot up here in this state.
Maine is a rural State with a lower income average than many. Plenty of people live in mobile homes and haul their own fuel instead of paying the oil company or electric company. It’s verrrryyy different from many other states.[/QUOTE]
This. Again, I grew up in Maine. As AppJmpr08 states, this is not at all uncommon in many parts of rural Maine. Again, does not mean that she can’t afford power, maybe she just choses generator over public utilities. Last I checked, this was not a crime. And it does not necessarily mean that she is incapable of caring for her horses.
Again, I keep going back to the horses I saw in the video. They did not look to be in bad shape to me. They definitely did not look like horse who had been without WATER for two weeks. I know some of you think they looked thin, to me, again, based on internet video/pictures, they looked more like many of the backyard horses you see in rural Maine. Rough around the edges, getting fuzzy, no topline…probably not receiving regular work to muscle them up. AGAIN…all I have to go on are a few pictures/videos from local news sources, and quotes from clearly disgruntled neighbors. It occurs to me that PERHAPS, in the name of NEWS…the reporters are going to show pictures of the worst parts of the farm, a dramatic shot of an empty grain bag, the muddy round pen, the muddy horses. They are not going to show IF there is a nicer pasture in the back, with better fencing, or the cleaner, neater areas of the property, (and I realize there may very well NOT be any better areas, so don’t jump all over me for saying that…), They are going to show what makes the story “newsworthy”. Muddy horses, muddy pens, junky yard. Now, I don’t know PP, (I do recognize the screen name but have not really had any online interaction with her, as I usually lurk). Very possibly, the entire place is a dump, all the fencing is in a horrible state of disrepair, the horses are wormy and malnourished. I don’t know. I would need to look at the place MYSELF, look at the horses MYSELF, or maybe read the official police/ animal welfare reports MYSELF. But, at this point, from 2000 miles away, all I have to go on, again, are those media and those unhappy neighbors. Not sure I want to string someone up on that info alone.
Clearly, there are problems. We know AC has been investigating. The fact that they removed them so quickly certainly indicates problems, but if there was no water and they could not get in touch with PP, they would have too. We know there have been horses loose. Based on the interviews with the neighbors, they clearly do not like PP, (read the comment section of the original news article, one of the neighbors is VERY vocal about he disdain/dislike, how “weird” PP is…) and are very angry about the condition of her farm. Do they have reason? Don’t know, don’t have enough evidence. They could be totally correct in their opinions. They did not sound like they necessarily knew a lot about horses, based on comments such as “they were out in the winter without blankets, omg!” Again, obviously some here disagree, but I do not think the horses looked to be in bad shape in the video. Not sleek and show fat, for sure, but not starving either. IMHO.
So, my long, rambling way of saying, I would like to wait for more info before stringing PP up or burning her at the stake. Unfortunately, she may not be able to talk about it on the BB, due to legal ramifications, so we might not know her side for a while. Considering that there is someone, apparently from THIS forum commenting on the initial news article, suggesting that people come here and make copies of PP posts to send to the authorities to be used as evidence against her, I doubt she will be posting here about this any time soon.
I find the whole thing very sad, for all involved. Including the animals.
Here’s how it works in Maine:
http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/7/title7sec4011.html
And yes, “inadequate shelter” is considered animal cruelty in Maine.
[QUOTE=FrenchFrytheEqHorse;5148544]
How many of you think that’s adequate fencing to contain breeding stallions being kept in close proximity to mares in heat? IIRC, PP has about 8 acres, so not a particularly large piece of land.[/QUOTE]
Seems to me that if the stallions were truly in inadequate fencing, there would be a regular batch of “oops” foals being born there each year – and as far as we know, that does not seem to be the case.
No soap,
Radio.
[QUOTE=FrenchFrytheEqHorse;5148544]
How many of you think that’s adequate fencing to contain breeding stallions being kept in close proximity to mares in heat? IIRC, PP has about 8 acres, so not a particularly large piece of land.[/QUOTE]
From the picture I can see, no, I don’t think it’s adequate. But…I also don’t see a bunch of foals. I don’t recall the article saying there were a bunch of pregnant mares. The stallion was not even on the property when the horses were seized. Perhaps this is WHY he is not on the property? Maybe she realized this? Again, no idea, but if the fencing had been SO inadequate for SO long, I would expect more foals/pregnant mares all over the place. There aren’t, so apparently she was managing to contain the stallion.
oops. rideagoldenpony beat me to my point! Carry on!
OK, been around horses most of my life. Am old and old school.
Years ago, there was a breeder, some of you may have known her. She was someone you went to for a good foxhunter.
She turned her babies out in the back 40 in winter with just hay (I think) but no grain or fussing with them at all. Those that lived were worth owning. They had few health problems and were sound sturdy sane animals.
Today, that would be abuse.
Another breeder in another state, turned his stallions out with the mares in bands. Sold hundreds of horses a year. If a stallion savaged his babies he was put down and replaced with another. He had several bands. Again, no shelter and minimal fussing. Horses died at all stages of life but again, he bred a sane, solid horse. No health issues and solid sane stock.
Today that would be abuse.
Perhaps the memory of these horses glimmers a bit with a sad little farm where horses are horses and perhaps are better than the hot house flowers so commonly bred today.
Those are my thoughts on breeding.
Loose horses. I know a farm that has been replacing their fence with horse panel, the seriously sturdy stuff used in stalls.
I’ve seen four board fence not even slow a horse down. Wire (2x4 or diamond) does a much better job. I’ve seen horses jump a fence topped with hot wire. I’ve also seen horses go clean through a stall wall.
The only thing I know for sure that will stop a horse is concrete, high concrete. Not feasible and certainly ugly.
We had 7 horses turn up on my road one day. People had plenty of grass and acreage but one small band of electric tape. They wound up in my back field after several people, vehicles and hours went by. Owner could not be located. They were here a week.
Horses get loose. Sometimes sad and not so good an outcome but we do not live in a perfect world.
Barn/pet sitters. If you don’t have a reliable person then two or even three people are a lot better. Horse people will and do leave animals without water!!! I cannot wrap my brain around that one but it happens. They will fail to close gates, give meds, or handle horses appropriately for the gender of the animals involved bring them in with the onset of bad weather be it cold or hot or notice injuries or colic.
General horse care. I at one time wanted to move out west. One place I looked was in the Topanga Canyon area. I saw horses in little pens with canvas roof. No grass to graze. Same in Nevada when visiting relatives. Could not imagine not hearing a horse munch grass.
I know barns in the cities that have dark dank stalls with little or no turnout. Not my thing.
I’ve been to training barns where the stall floors have not been filled and leveled in years. Deep holes a foot deep and three feet wide. Fancy looking digs but I wouldn’t want my horse in that stall! Barns with no windows and a horse can’t see anything but three walls and bars. Yuck.
I know few barns that have sheds to accommodate all horses out in fields. I know few horses that use sheds that are provided. What idiots make these laws?
I know few wealthy folks that need to worry about animal control, including those that have hot wire around stalls to discourage cribbing. Give me a break!
I would not want the place next to me to look like what we saw in the video and would not be pleased to have someone’s stallions wondering over to visit my mares or fight with the boys. But I would do everything possible to help her out, a work day or whatever. BUT, I am a horseperson who believes in community. If she did not want my help we would have a problem.
I just think this sort of thing can happen to almost anyone and horsemen should have more say than the non horse neighbors and newmedia. Altho the luck of the draw here could be interesting.
someone suggested copying PPs posts from here and sending them to authorities?
good god.
do you all remember the scene in Frankenstein when the mob surrounds the castle with torches and staves and pitchforks?
sound familiar?
I just read the comments in the original news article and it seems people are waiting for her to post on here so they can report the posts???
I feel very sorry for this woman. People don’t want to help, they want to suffocate her with hate. If I could get a plane ticket I would be out there helping her fix the property up.
Just ask anyone who had to survive on a generator for a month or more without power after Hurricane Katrina. It actually wasn’t as hard as I expected it to be.
People are disgusting. Yes her place looks really run down, and that fencing is not adequate… especially with a stallion. But I so wish the $$$ spent on this seizure would have gone to horses that were legitimately in crisis. If she has been being investigated for a year I wonder why she was not given a chance to rectify the situation first. Who knows, maybe she was.
She loves those horses, so of course she has been trying to keep them. It would be hard for anyone to take. I could hardly read the villification on the webpage for the article. I especially like the neighbor counting down and watching how long she is not there. Get a life.
I hope she gets the help she needs and can make the changes neccesary to have horses in her life. I think she is a good person who fell on hard times and became overwhelmed. Good luck Jaime.
I am not trying to vilify PP at all. It seems like a case of a petsitter or neighbors gone bad. I did get annoyed when people were making AC out as the bad guys, when clearly they were responding to what was in front of them - horses without food and water and nobody around to claim responsibility for them. How they got that way and for how long they were like that is anybody’s guess.
It is my OPINION that the photos do not show a well maintained property appropriate for keeping horses, much less breeding them. Perhaps her neighbors or AC feel the same way. I am not saying she doesn’t love her animals or does the best she can, but that I find these conditions questionable.
The good thing that came out of this is that everyone learned that pet-sitter fail does happen, and it is a good idea to have a back up person or two just in case. Also to have your contact info posted somewhere clearly visible so authorities can find you if necessary. I didn’t think of this before, but I will do this now.
Regarding generators, I have lived overseas the last 4 years in countries with little or no public power and everything was run by diesel-powered generator. Depending on capacity, they run from 8-12 hours and can keep most appliances, computers, lights and some aircon running with no problem. Often properties had 2 gennies; when one ran out of gas it automatically switched over.
It’s not a big deal other than the noise and the potential for power surges especially during the changeover.
Regarding this thread, people are perfectly free to come on this BB and respectfully express their well-founded righteous indignation over a public animal cruelty case based on the available evidence, which includes photos, video, news reports and oh, yes - the public record of a prior fine for cruelty. This does not constitute “hate” nor a “witch hunt.”
The hyperbole is frankly wearing thin and it’s not going to stop people from continuing to discuss aspects of this case.
[QUOTE=Flashy Gray VA;5148607]
Regarding this thread, people are perfectly free to come on this BB and respectfully express their well-founded righteous indignation over a public animal cruelty case based on the available evidence, which includes photos, video, news reports and oh, yes - the public record of a prior fine for cruelty. This does not constitute “hate” nor a “witch hunt.”
The hyperbole is frankly wearing thin and it’s not going to stop people from continuing to discuss aspects of this case.[/QUOTE]
sure, but there are not many facts yet… which is what some of keep trying to say…
we know very little and should wait to see what the rest of the story is before passing judgement.
the prior “abuse” was for inadequate shelter. while it may be the law in that state to have a 3 sided shelter - it is not cruelty in my mind to not have it. horses can, and do, live out without shelter and have for eons. (i actually think it is cruel to over blanket)
sure, the fences look like they need repair, and yes it looks like the sitter failed.
but is any of that good enough to roast someone alive like has been happening here? how is that going to help the person or animals?
why cant we be more caring? can you imagine what it must be like to be her right now? i can. and my heart really does go out to her.
PP wherever you are… you are in my thoughts and i hope it does work out for you.
