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Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

Off Course
#461

Thank You ZuZu !

I’m also saddened that this has happened to one of our regulars on COTH. Many things happen in life for which we can not be totally prepared. Sometimes we do the best we can given the circumstances and our emotional state.
I, too, would hope more of us would step up and say “What can I Do to Help?”
If your life is a bed of roses today, lucky you BUT believe me things can change in a heartbeat.
I say we cut her some slack and try to make something positive outta this mess. I’m ready to help and not judge. Anyone else??

#462

Marla 100, how much extra $$ did you throw in this year’s tax pot? You know, all that hopey changey, surely you sent Obama more money than you are required, since you’re all about ‘how can I help?’ right?

Right?

#463

You are ASSuming, as usual.

#464

[QUOTE=rideagoldenpony;5148559]
Seems to me that if the stallions were truly in inadequate fencing, there would be a regular batch of “oops” foals being born there each year – and as far as we know, that does not seem to be the case.[/QUOTE]

Actually, there have been several “oops” foals, that I know about. In one case, several years ago, a mutual friend arranged to buy a young filly from J, but when she found out she was IN FOAL (and ended up actually having that foal at 24 months of age), she returned her to J and got her money back. J also had allowed a young, ungelded colt to REGULARLY escape his enclosure and did, in fact, impregnate one of his sisters (not sure if the young colt was allowed to impregnate his yearling sister, or whether it was some other mare).

I, too, have known J a long time on the BBs and also once sold her a nice saddle on payments, which she always made. She seems like a very warm and caring person, and I adore her writing style (maybe she missed her calling in life) but, seriously, I think she’s in over her head, needs help to get out from under it all, and I truly do wish the best for her and the good comes out of this shocking situation.

#465

Unless you can see the future! Are you absolutely positive, in 10-20 years, you will not meet with some personal catastrophe, and in spite of all efforts, find yourself struggling with more horses than you ought to have for a brief period of time?

It’s been after the personal catastrophes that she’s acquired more horses and bred the ones she has. And it’s been longer than a brief period. So far this year she’s bred two of them, one in June and one in September according to her posts. Not exactly circumstances outside of her control. Who breeds for more and looks for a broodmare to lease and bring in when they’ve been in trouble for not having adequate shelter and can’t keep the ones they have from getting loose due to inadequate fencing? (not to mention all the shopping mentioned on this BB) The money is better spent on shelter and fencing for the ones you have as opposed to getting or making more. She wasn’t just recently diagnosed with FM, had job issues and oops, had too many horses. This has been going on for a long time according to her. Going on a vacation? Yes, many people are surprised at that.

Absolutely positive no current or future neighbor nor family member will form a vendetta against you and decide to start framing you for neglect?

Forming a vendetta? As if it’s out of the blue? She’s stated herself multiple times on here that her horses get loose all the time and invade her neighbor’s lawns and gardens. And still hasn’t fixed the fencing. And chose to leave with the fencing like that. I’m having a hard time believing the neighbors are ‘framing’ her for anything. Did they go take down good fencing and replace it with that? Did they dump the water and disconnect her electricity? Dump feces in the round pens with the horses?

Absolutely positive you will never irritate a government official, who then picks perfect timing to catch you out violating one of the thousands of bits of code (which at least in my area, tend to change all the time, depending on who is in office - so best to read them every 5 years or so!)

How does someone irritate a government official? Do they go find them and irritate them? or do you mean irritate by having the official called out to their property numerous times and then not complying with the state’s laws on keeping livestock? There’s been at least 3 times I can remember her posting that an ACO was out to her property for purposes of loose horses, no shelters or the shelters that were put together with odds and ends falling down.
I would say it is pretty good timing to go to the property after being called out there (not exactly waiting in the shrubs for the perfect timing :rolleyes:) when the horses are without water. I guess they could have waited until the horses were farting dust from not drinking. Or the neighbors could have not called and taken over the watering and cleaning the round pens of manure for free. Why not?
This wasn’t a “bit of code” that changes all the time. ME has basics…food, water, shelter and fencing that keeps the horses in. hardly archaic or unknown horse keeping practices.

#466

I truly believe that PP going to WEG is part of the whole “needy” thing that I mentioned- and her “countdown” thread is simply proof positive.

I do not defend anyone who doesn’t take care of their animals-- but I do make room for the fact that we simply do not HAVE all of the facts, as yet. I suppose I hope that there are extenuating circumstances- like her help didn’t show up- but the conditions shown in the pictures are challenging, to say the least.

Still, we should be ready to help where we can, I believe, because that is what people who care about animals do. In spite of all appearances, and in the face of a really, really tough situation, the animals come first.

Judgements can wait.

#467

I think DB’s issue here is that several have stated she is breeding crappy “grade” horses… I believe her Sr stallion is an arab/paint cross, is he grade? Dont know, he could be registered half arab or pinto or sport pony for all we know. Her website used to show a couple paint mares, were they registered? I dont know. She has a colonial spanish filly, not grade garbage… I seem to remember a sorrel TB on her website, maybe she doesnt have her any longer? I dont know what breed of mare was given to her, was it grade garbage? Point being here, without asking for papers, we dont know if what she has is grade or not. What i see are pasture condition horses. Pasture condition is NOT going to be show ring pretty or even resemble something that everyone would say, OMG i have to breed that…

Go take a look at the broodmares at Hilltop or Iron Spring or any other large WELL KNOWN breeding facility anywhere on this planet and you will see a large number of pasture condition broodmares that couldnt win in the breed ring in a week… Most of which you would think, why the heck is that thing even breeding if you just saw a picture of the mare in the pasture without knowing what farm it’s from. But the minute you hear the farm name well OHHHH, that’s the best mare on the planet…

I know she’s bred a couple nice horses in the past. I for one think the rearing pinto in the news photos is adorable, and i know she bred that one. Not so adorable for rearing, but i think it’s a nice looking little horse, one i would own.

Should she be breeding right now? Well personally i dont think so. But i do think she needs help and i’m willing to do what i can. That’s the way i was raised. I would not help someone who was obviously abusing and neglecting their horses and showed me pictures of open wounds, emaciated animals that were scared of their own shadow. But i will help someone that has obviously been having a rough go of it and simply needs help, that obviously her idiot neighbors are not willing to offer.

I would sure hope someone would be willing to help me if i were to land in this situation. Obviously there are those among us that walk some perfectly golden path and no ill befalls them, or if it does they still land on a bed of roses… What lucky people they must be to have friends and family that support them and the money to back them. Now for all those golden people, take your friends, family, job, and money out of your life and picture what you would have left. I think you just might be living worse than PP. I think you would be crying inwardly for help without knowing how to ask. I think you would be trying to make light of your situation and laugh at yourself in your posts here, to find online friends because some friends are better than none, i think in your silent way you would be screaming for help, but no one really put two and two together to really come and help you. We all can see the warning signs in PPs posts, but no one did a thing about it. Some of you will say, well it’s not my place to help some moron out of her situation that she should do herself… What a sad lot of people we have become. I will lump myself in that category because i saw some warning signs but put my own busy life first. I think i do this a lot in my life. Well here is my wake up call. Is it yours?

#468

is the sermon over yet?

where’s the fried chicken?

#469

Fried chicken? Yuck! We used to have taco sundays! :wink:

But those that make light of situations like this are those that feel the most guilt when someone blows their head off because they didnt pay attention to the warning signs… Just saying…

#470

Excellent post, I agree wholeheartedly. :slight_smile: :sadsmile:

Someone has a sig line that says “Kindness is free.” So is compassion.

Caitlin

#471

I’m pretty sure her stallion is RPSI approved. Yes he’s a crossbred but so are all the warmbloods and German Riding Ponies…they are all mixtures of something with brands on their rumps. I remember chuckling once while looking at the website of a German Riding pony breeder. Most of the mares were crosses of several different breeds…grade horses…but they had that brand on their butt so that made them German Riding Ponies and not grade horses. Get my point?

Whatever…seriously…why in the name of God do people feel the need to rip someone apart when something goes wrong in their life? Almost everyone on here has agreed that the horses are not starved nor lacking in major care. Her facility is not fancy but honestly, I’ve seen worse, and I know of places all over our area that are no better.

All we can see are a few select pieces in photos and limited video. If anyone comes to my farm, they can take a photo of a pile of scrap lumber behind my round pen and assume from that one photo that my place is a dump. I even have some electric tape that needs repair in a few spots too…take a pic of that and assume my place is unsafe also all over. Why not take a photo of the north side of my barn and house which need power washed of the seasons green slime still and assume my place is junky also? Heck my ditch down by the road needs to be weekwacked also…clearly I am a horrible person who does not deserve to own horses either. :no:

Take a look in the mirror folks before you cast stones. None of us are without flaws in our own lives. The shark attack on this thread on PP makes me ill. How quickly people will turn on someone when they smell a wound…like a school of Piranhas.

#472

I think that FF’s point was merely that she was spending $$$ purchasing horses, and was a bit delusional… IE I “must” have thise horse, she will add so much, I cannot miss this opportunity. I love your horses, DB, it’s very obvious that you have a wonderful breeding program.

There have been some great points… IE shipped semen and ultrasounds would have cost $$ that could have put up electrobraid, and purchased a solar charger easily. Or put up a cheap but usable shed. Hopefully this will have a happy ending, and she can fix the issues that she has been having.

Like someone else said, I couldn’t imagine leaving for WEG with fencing that wouldn’t hold my horses in. I’d be far too concerned that they would get out and get hit by a car or something awful. Not that it would make me sleep better if I was home and my fencing didn’t hold up, but still.

I just wish her the best is all. I can’t imagine how awful this must be. I think it really puts things in perspective to see this happen to someone we “know”… Things aren’t black and white, and people aren’t good or bad. Even good people can make bad choices that can result in bad results for them and their animals. Hopefully it will make people think twice before judging someone.

#473

I have to say there has been some humor in some of these posts, and I can see us all sitting around inserting our opinions. Katerine you are cracking me up. I would not have been able to ‘control’ myself.

I think, don’t know for sure, that the ACO and officials HAD to act. We see what we consider well fleshed horses and think, why them when there are so many starving horses. I think the answer is abandonment. If they did not take those horses into custody knowing that no one had been feeding or watering, they would be liable. Just a thought, nothing I know for fact. Regardless, I am sure they monitored the situation and when they saw no one showing up, refilling the water, etc, they had to act by law.

As far as the idea of how dare you criticise, this could happen to you, no one is perfect argument. You guys are absolutely right.

However, I have had catastrophes, and I think every day about contingency planning, I think every day about what ifs?(yes, I worry a lot, mostly because I have no one to come help me, no family, a few friends who are not horse/animal people) and so I have no one else to lean on. That is a fact, I am not whining.
Yes, I know, my animals welfare is solely dependent on me. Sooo, I can appreciate where PP might be coming from in that regard.

I have also felt so lonely, so overwhelmed with the 'what have I done" having this many horses and this much time it takes every fricking day, that I have fleetingly thought, just get in the truck and leave. So, yeah, I know how easy, especially when you are alone, to just say screw it.

Also, no offense really, but if one of my horses was up there, I’d be there with my truck and trailer. I am sorry Daydream Believer, but how can you, as someone who bred that filly feel after seeing the photos, re-reading some of the posts where pp told about her wretched life, sell her a horse and not be concerned?

This whole mess is just that…a mess. A sad mess.

additionally, I think the horses were in the round pen so that they could not ‘escape’.
Also, if her health is that bad, shouldn’t a priority be to get electricity in there…I mean when I am sick, the last thing I want to do is lug wood in and keep the fire going. Turning up the thermostat is a lot easier.
I know this means I am putting my values on her, but if we are going to be discussing her illness, etc, I just don’t see the point of spending money on weg or anything else for that matter before getting the basics covered…you know Maslow’s heirarchy of needs kind of thing.

another add on…if those of you who are close to her or if anyone needs something, it would be nice to have a place where we could donate.
I know Mr. Wigglebottom who was a loved cat recently passed, and the mods requested that thread be removed because we were rallying to help with donations. maybe there could be a place where people in need could post…just a thought.
I don’t think mods allow that in any of the current forums, but maybe there could be a new forum.
I know if someone in my area lost their income or hit hard times, I’d certainly give them some hay, or a gift cert to a feed store, etc. I think most on here would. I’d rather make a direct donation like that than give to where I don’t really know ‘how’ my money is being used.

#474

It’s really none of your business but I sold her the filly as a weanling in the Fall of 2007. I’d never been to her place nor did I know her very well at that time. If I had it to over again, I probably would not sell a horse to someone who has had health problems and is struggling financially but a lot has happened in three years and I believe Jaime’s situation has changed some since 2007.

When I met her I liked her a lot and no I did not do a background check before I sold her the filly. I still don’t think it was a mistake and I’m waiting to hear ALL the facts and her side of the story before I jump to unfair conclusions.

As for hitching up my rig and driving to Maine to get her…1. no one is being told where the horses are. 2. Until the case is convicted, no one can take the horses which are legally PP’s. 3. I have friends in New England, much closer than I am, who will go get her when and if I take possession of the filly back.

I posted earlier that I left a message with the Animal Welfare folks who took the horses Friday night but they are off until Tuesday, so it will be a few days before I can do anything and probably more like a few weeks. I don’t even know if I can get her back…they may well adopt her to someone else in State.

Am I concerned? Yes, much more now than before as I don’t know where Sky is or who is taking care of her or where she’s going to end up. It was pretty clear she was being taken care of by Jaime. Now, who knows?

#475

[QUOTE=Tif_Ann;5148558]
Here’s how it works in Maine:

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/7/title7sec4011.html

And yes, “inadequate shelter” is considered animal cruelty in Maine.[/QUOTE]

Just for PP’s information, I built a little 2 stall (8x10 stalls) barn for about $800. Extending that to a 6 stall shed row would be less per stall with the shared wall and posts. My little barn took about 8 - 12 hours to build and has stood up to several blizzards.

It is an extremely basic and work saving design - no cutting, no digging, just standing 6x6 posts in place and nailing on 2x8s and 2x10s. We ran 2x4 angle braces screwed along the inside of the walls to help keep it square.

The 2-stall barn is overall 10x16, with the roof extending forward to be 12 x 16, so 6 sheets of waffleboard and again, no cutting needed, just place and nail. If you wanted to avoid the roll roofing, asphalt paint could be used for a short term wood protection.

We used joist hangers for either 2x4s, or 2x6s for roof supports, then waffle board and roll roofing, but even a tarp could be used to cover the roof and tacked down for short term use.

#476

All good points, and I must confess, I am a writer - well trained to imagine castrophes and make them seem very real!:cool:

Also a couple family members are currently going through terrible times that even I couldn’t have imagined could possibly have afflicted them, so I may be a bit sensitive due to that.

I think you and I are around the same age, and I admit I have layers of contingency plans now in place to protect my pets and horses should something happen to me.

But 20 years ago I didn’t, and I was young and stupid enough to have about the same number of pets and horses then.

Look all I’m asking is folks try to show some compassion. (It’s another character flaw of mine, I’m compassionate to a fault, especially when someone seems to be in trouble…)

Even if PP isn’t reading this now, we know she will some day. I’ll bet she’s suffering beyond measure right now and will for some time. I don’t believe she ever intended to hurt her animals, and even my tune would be different if they looked worse off. They were body condition 4-5’s, not 1-2’s (I know a lady around here who lets horses fall to the latter and in that case even my sizeable compassion for fellow humans falters).

To me, it seems she was desperately trying to take care of them as best she could, working her *ss off trying to find a way to make the situation better.

Maybe she ought to have asked for help before this, but these are tough times, maybe she really couldn’t think of anyone willing & able to help. So she kept going as best she could, and so far, her horses seemed to be doing okay. Not excellent but hey, in these times (cough, I seem to be saying that too often lately…) a lot of horses are worse off. I’m willing to wager if she hadn’t been away, no way they would have found those horses without water or hay.

My heart goes out to her, and I hope someday when she reads this thread, she senses the compassion and willingness to help from some of us - and if she ever gets in a desperate situation again, she knows one place to come to ask for help.

Peace. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#477

I had posted earlier but then deleted because I chickened out… but there was a tv show last week about poverty in different countries. In the US, many - it may have been most- of legal residents living in poverty were once considered low or middle income (no poverty). The turning point? A significant illness or injury (2 week hospital stay may = 250K +) for the income provider or family member. Seriously, the point of the story was that most of America is just one job loss and a significant illness or accident away from poverty. So it could happen to most of us (those of us not from rich families). Maybe she didn’t prepare accordingly, or maybe she didn’t adjust her lifestyle in a quick enough time frame? Maybe having her horses was the only positive part of her life that she was hanging on to?

I’m not saying that it’s right, or that I condone it. But I agree with those who’s first reaction is compassion and a willingness to help. If the story turns out to be bad and willful, then those of us that were supportive suckers will be wrong. But we will at least be nice.

#478

Daydream Believer,

For what it’s worth, my veterinarian sold one of his horses to a friend. A year later another friend called him up and asked him what the h*ll he (the vet) thought he (the vet) was doing … his (the vet) horse was frozen into the mud at the new owner’s (NOTE: NEW owner’s) place !!

My vet went right off the deep end. He went over to see what had happened. Starved to death and frozen. Said he never would have guessed that that would have been the end result. Friend had PLENTY of money.

#479

If she gets the horses back, because it was a petsitter no-show that caused there to be no water and is willing to geld the stallions, I’d be willing to pitch in some money to help her build a shelter like mentioned by Fairview. I understand someone going through hard times and an illness, but cannot in good faith give money to someone that will breed more horses in that situation.
Hopefully, if someone knows her and is in contact with her, they will tell her that there are some people out here that will offer help, if she is willing to also help herself, by gelding/selling off some of the horses.

#480

[QUOTE=Arcadien;5149087]

I think you and I are around the same age, and I admit I have layers of contingency plans now in place to protect my pets and horses should something happen to me. But 20 years ago I didn’t, and I was young and stupid enough to have about the same number of pets and horses then. [/QUOTE] Now you are really using your imagination :wink: Rather, I mean to say that if your profile details are accurate that I’ve nearly 20 years on you. :sadsmile:

Appreciate your sentiments though. :slight_smile:

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