Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;5149507]
I think we should all start posting pics of our horses’ living conditions to be certain that they pass muster with the coth community at large. Then we need to post individual pics of each of our horses to learn whether we should geld, keep, donate, euth or what not. Any breeders will need to post pictures and pedigrees of potential mare and stallion crossings for critique and final judgement of worthiness and while we’re at it we will also need to post pictures of ourselves so that the coth family can determine and tell us whether we are fit to ride, if we need to lose a few pounds or more, if our personal hygeine is sufficient. Now, this one might be reaching, but I highly recommend that those of who are parents post pictures and stats of our children to be certain that all coth’ers think we’re parenting well and so that they can tell us how to do it better. And you know, now that I think of it, we should also submit SO’s for judging because they can have a big impact on all aspects of our lives.
Okay, I’ll go first. But it will take me a little while to amass all the photos, pedigrees and bios. Who’s next? :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

I certainly will in the morning as I have to work tonight. Maybe on a new thread?

[QUOTE=princessfluffybritches;5149503]
We could stick to the facts:

The neighbors were very upset at the conditions the horses were left in-and it’s not the first time. I doubt there’s a vendetta here. And they’re better eye witnesses than we are. They are living there.

She has charges against her for animal cruelty already.

She has inadequate fencing

She has no shelter

They have no water

I see no hay

How deep is the manure in that roundpen, 3 horses x 14 days x 50 pounds per day= 2100 lbs of manure in that roundpen. Standing and sleeping in that.

There may be additional laws for stallions

No electric for the inadequate fencing

It’s obvious she can’t afford to keep all these horses within minimal requirements for adequate care

They could not contact her.

Some of her older pics are not her property, there’s a barn and a big house in the background

Anything else is hearsay. These are the facts, and she is already a repeat offender.

Anyone can tell you anything on a forum.[/QUOTE]

Good posting of the facts. But as cothers, 1/2 of the people will defend her no matter what. I do feel sorry for someone who has no money, but, uh the horses and cats need food and water. So at least they are safe.
Does she have family or friends up there? One person living alone needs to interact with people and get help when she needed it years ago, not wait for things to crash. A family support system or a group of friends as a support system is crucial to someone who is borderline poverty. Heck, family and friends are crucial to us all. It does take a village.

Well I can submit my vet as my reference if we’re going to have a thread on how horses are kept.

Misty, here’s one nut that would gladly follow you if you were the Top Nut. I’m sure it would be a thankless job, but from one nut to another, let’s get crackin’! :winkgrin:

That gal they interviewed? Sweet but clueless

She has charges against her for animal cruelty already.

one not yet been in court, the other, who knows, I am sure since it’s public record one could find out if so inclined, since we are - thanks to the paper - in possession of her full name and address. Now why did they ever leave her SSN out…

She has inadequate fencing

it’s a mess from what one can tell in those pictures, yes.

She has no shelter
as per another Maine horse owner not required till November

They have no water

got me there

I see no hay
Your little eye witness gal said she went and gave the horses hay that is on the premises.

How deep is the manure in that roundpen, 3 horses x 14 days x 50 pounds per day= 2100 lbs of manure in that roundpen. Standing and sleeping in that.

assuming

There may be additional laws for stallions

assuming

No electric for the inadequate fencing

assuming

It’s obvious she can’t afford to keep all these horses within minimal requirements for adequate care

assuming and condescending

They could not contact her.

By which means?

Some of her older pics are not her property, there’s a barn and a big house in the background

and you know that because you been there?

Anything else is hearsay. These are the facts, and she is already a repeat offender.

glad you are up to snuff on things…

Anyone can tell you anything on a forum.

about the best thing you said.

No, you are right, we can’t assume from the few pictures in the news story, nor the video.
It’s like taking pictures of your garden: you can make almost every garden look pretty, just by cropping out the mess. On the other hand I bet I can make my neighbors award wining garden look like a dump by focusing on the things that are not pretty.

I’m a little surprised no one has bothered to comment on my earlier post about her so-called breeding practices (i.e., oops babies).

Does anyone here think it’s responsible to keep 2 stallions in those enclosures when close to mares? Is it responsible to not take adequate measures to prevent a colt from repeatedly escaping his enclosure and impregnating his sister? Is it responsible not to take adequate measures to prevent circumstances that would allow a 2 year old filly to give birth to a foal, meaning she was impregnated as a yearling???

The events of this week is NOT a new pattern of behavior for this person.

Remember, J was gone for at least 14 days, since she posted she arrived on 9/24, which was 17 days ago.

Regardless of whether AC was justified in seizing her animals, what person is their right mind that can’t afford basics such as food, clothing, and shelter for not only themselves but for 6 horses, goes on a trip like that???

Oh yeah, that’s real responsible.

J needs to grow up. And get some counseling. Seriously.

Not surprised at all, the majority of posters have their blinkers on.
I agree with you, however.

Well it is rather obvious that the neighbors aren’t functioning as one.

At least a couple of people have pointed out that some things are problems depending on who has to put up with it. From past experience I know that sometimes you get dragged into peoples lives, friends or neighbors, and it can be either a good thing or a bad thing - rendering assistance to someone who can’t keep up now, or enabling someone who has made the choice to get in over their head.
Nope, I’d still rather be part of a solution than sit in judgement.

Just wanted to bring up the generator thing again. I know, sorry.
Living in a hurricane area, I know a bit about them. If you get one that runs on propane, you can run a whole house for a month on 1 tank, longer if you cut it off when you aren’t there. In my area it is cheaper than buying electricity but I know we have $400+ power bills here and when I lived in PA it was more like under $50.
Anyway, carry on. Sorry to bother you.

So what do you want? A medal?

I have read several comments on that, maybe yours included, maybe not.

I personally did not follow her on the breeding forum, so I wouldn’t know.

I see a lot of assumptions being uttered, like lack of care, food and water, or, in your case of arrangements made for her absence. We won’t know, probably not for a long while, if ever.

The poop has hit the fan, no doubt, maybe overdue, maybe not.

Adding the missing stuff, the plot thickens, so things won’t be any easier down the road.

Maybe she is a pathological liar, maybe she is just a poor sap, caught up in life. Who knows.

I know that I am sitting in Alabama, almost as far south from where she is as it gets, I see horses of good weight being hauled away by AC who themselves state that they have cases with starving horses but gave this priority. And I have to wonder.
The I read the news article on the web, where she is outed, full name, age and address along with ‘abandoned animals’ and I have to scratch my head, reading that stuff is missing does not surprise me the least, heck, I am in Alabama, even I was able to find her location!

So, I am reserving judgment for when the facts are in, and since it’s not just a simple matter, we might never know.

And until then, I am trying my best to stay away from this thread and mind my own beeswax.

Regardless, I am kicking the jingle machine into high gear, there are a few animals with uncertain fate now, and other people than PP with vested interest in their wellbeing, too.

[QUOTE=Donella;5149317]
I don’t know what is going on as the horses do look healthy enough??

Obviously if someone is hauling water from a creek to her horses she does love them and care about them. But at the same time, if a person is in such a precarious financial situation that they cannot afford running water, appropriate fencing , shelters (and horses DO need some sort of shelter!) ect then owning horses doesn’t seem smart!. Horses get sick, they get injured ect. Vet care is not cheap. What would a person do if there was an emergency?

I am sure she means well (well I am assuming she does?) but if the situation is how it is presented and she is struggling that much then both her and her horses would be better off if she were to cut back on the numbers. Breeding should be out of the question…[/QUOTE]

I believe that that was a single incident after her pipes froze and broke last winter.

Auntie M:

Okay, you raised enough hairs on my head to question my own filly’s paternity. And I am completely serious - as in gray hairs.

Somewhere I have an email draft to you on this subject, composed yesterday; bottom line is I got a Nico filly, not a Mac one. Bottom line is I’ve been to Maine and met PP and seen her farm - the conditions are not cruel. Inadequate to some, perhaps, but not cruel. (Take into account the places I have worked, you’ve seen the photos.)

Maybe it’s because I’ve seen far worse, or because J was so eager to offer a breeding lease, but I for one wish to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Innocent before guilty. That is the backbone of our judicial system. You can dangle them over the fire, but you cannot drop them until you have just cause.

And I suspect you are smiling now: so am I. A little cathartic experience.

Many blessings.

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5149392]
As for the people freaking out about the alleged “lack of shelter issue”-- horses evolved on the steppes of Asia-- they have lived for millions of years without barns, run-in sheds, turnout blankets and etc. Wild horses continue to do so. Every vet I’ve ever known has said that hot weather is way more of a problem than cold weather for horses.[/QUOTE]

These wild horses that you speak of, they are kept in fenced pastures, yes? And have been bred by humans for specific purposes, ignoring their needs for survival? Because that’s the only way you can compare.

[QUOTE=elysianfieldsfarm;5149392]
And remember this IS America where people are free to decide for themselves- for the most part-- what they feel is an acceptable level of horse care-- as long as the animals have access to fresh water, adequate feed or hay and vet care, when needed.[/QUOTE]

So you say people should break the law because laws are unAmerican.

I don’t know where you get this from but I guess you don’t have a lot of money and have a chip on your shoulder about it? No one has mentioned any of this anywhere I’ve read in any thread here so look to yourself for your problem with people who can afford nice things.

[QUOTE=butlerfamilyzoo;5148993]
But those that make light of situations like this are those that feel the most guilt when someone blows their head off because they didnt pay attention to the warning signs… Just saying…[/QUOTE]

:confused: Personally, I suspect that most people feel a brief moment of agony and then die after someone blows their head off. Guilt seems a little - odd.

Unless your support helps her hold on to animals she has no intention/ability to maintain properly. Not that I know if she’s actually guilty, and not that I’m claiming she’s evil. But I’ve seen a lot of ‘nice’ people choose to be ‘Christian’ or ‘compassionate’ and end up f’ing up a situation by enabling a bad person/situation to continue merrily on.

Just in case anyone hasn’t seen the other thread, PP’s home was broken into before she got home (one would think it had something to do with the news providing all her information and that she was currently out of state).

Her house was trashed, and saddles stolen.

Thread Here

[QUOTE=Donella;5149489]
Nope, by law, nope. Not in Canada. A wind break yes, but not a shelter.
They never need to move, either.

That is what I meant. A break of some sort from the elements. Wild horses can escape driving blizzards by going into a stand of trees ect. Horses in an open paddock cannot.

What do you mean " they never need to move"?[/QUOTE]

You never have to exercise them. You can keep them in a small stall, forever.
That’s also law.

Ok, we obviously have two camps here.

1st, yes, innocent until proven guilty. However, please folks understand this is Maine, not LA, not NC, not even CT, its maine, and the law states horses must be provided shelter from Nov1 - APril 1. End of story. PP didn’t have it last winter, and hasn’t done much to have shelter ready for Nov1. I know of people who keep their horses out 24/7, but they have access to a barn or run in. Trees up here are not considered shelter. Please remember, we are talking zone 4 or maybe zone 5. Some of you who think no shelter is fine live in zone 6, 7 and 8…so please, understand the difference in our climate, AND the length of our winters. Cold is easier I think on some horses, but cold meaning 40 degrees, not below freezing temps, which require a horse to use more fuel to keep warm. Right now, my temps are around 32 at night, and 50’s in day, and this is nothing. This can run a horse down, and you do need to increase feed to increase fuel to keep weight. As I said on another thread, my hard keepers get blanketed 24/7 because I cannot keep them in weight. I am not one to think its ‘normal’ to have a thin horse in the spring.

2nd, ACO has been working with her for a year, she has prior animal cruelty convictions. So, she leaves her farm, and hopefully hired a caretaker who obviously was slack on the job.

3rd, Aco is informed, leaves a note, no response, and comes the next day to seize the horses, who are in fair weight. However, and I have mentioned this before…ACO most likely legally cannot just fill up the water tanks and become PP’s farm sitter. They would be liable after receipt of a complaint stating the owner is gone for an extended period of time(once again) and horses are without care and abandoned. They don’t know she is at weg, they don’t know when she is coming back, etc, etc
ACO I do believe would be liable if something happened, and the easist thing to do is take the horses into custody.

As far as the neighbors…I don’t give a fricking butt about them or what they say. I am only going by what I saw in the pics and video, and the fact that ACO has been working with her for a year and she has a prior.

Anita M…yes, I am terribly concerned about horses being born in that environment. As someone mentioned, what do you do if you have a sick horse or a stall bound horse?

I am not trying to bash, I don’t really have to do much to just be critical, the pictures speak for themselves.

Neighbors, we all know to take with a grain of salt.
However, as also previously stated, a woman living alone with fibromyalgia and no electricity is a recipe for disaster. God knows, sometimes I find it hard to manage 10 horses, and I have heated water buckets, hoses, stalls, frost free hydrants. Going to a stream for water…are you kidding me? My streams freeze in january. And there is no way I am hauling water, and although older than PP, I am healthy.
Its certainly her choice, and if she can do it provide adequate care, then more power to her. But, obviously, at least to some of us, this has not been the case.

the no shelter coming onto another(2nd) winter, to me is reason to seize…that alone. Its not november, but aco came upon abandoned animals…whats s/he suppose to do, wait till she comes home? S/he can’t…they have to act.

This is certainly an attitude I can agree with.

I will also admit to being somewhat prejudiced myself as I’ve known several people who have had to deal with similar situations (confiscated animals) because of what essentially was a feud with neighbors. HSUS/ animal control were dragged into it and in two specific cases in the area where I lived at the time, the allegations were totally without foundation. The one person who had adequate finances to hire a lawyer ended up, eventually, recovering pretty substantial $$ damages from the original complainant as well as the local AC group.

The other person, who was my farrier at the time, sold all his horses and his training facility and moved. One of those situations where the place had been in his family for two generations but the adjoining acreage had been sold and developed and all his neighbors on that side wanted him gone.

And on the other side of the coin, I’ve known (personally) of two actual cases of animal abuse, one involving a horse and one involving a dog. In both of these cases the person making the complaint was a local veterinarian and the law enforcement people involved were County sheriff’s officers, not HSUS or Animal Control.

Yes, animal abuse happens and it should be stopped. It is also true that there are many unwarranted complaints made and injustices do occur. I will always continue to feel it is reasonable to assume innocence where guilt has not been proved.

So, I keep coming back to one thing.

If there was an open investigation, and the horses were getting out this summer, do we really think that the ACO and AWP didn’t have any contact information for PP? No cell phone, no place of work, no nothing??

I had a couple horses get out this summer, and the ACO happened by while I was putting them back (I was here when they got out - no one had to call him). The first thing he did was get my cell phone number.

That’s what I can’t understand. If she had an ongoing relationship with AWP, how could they not find her? And if the neighbors knew she went out of state, and took a horse with her, did they really not know where she went?? I mean, she could’ve taken her horse to Mt. Desert Island to go camping or something. Obviously someone had spoken to her enough to know that she was leaving the state.

I doubt it’s the truth. If it is, I don’t think it is the fault of the news. Anytime there is an arrest, the name and address of the suspect is given. If someone wants to find a home to burglarize, it is easy to find information that leads you to one unoccupied. :)Burglars must be pretty desperate in Maine to think there would be anything of value at her place.

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;5149783]
I doubt it’s the truth. If it is, I don’t think it is the fault of the news. Anytime there is an arrest, the name and address of the suspect is given. If someone wants to find a home to burglarize, it is easy to find information that leads you to one unoccupied. :)Burglars must be pretty desperate in Maine to think there would be anything of value at her place.[/QUOTE]

It’s possible it would’ve happened without her name and address being made public, along with her absence.

But the fact remains that, according to the news articles:

“Perry said that one of Ahern’s cats was captured outside and another was found inside her mobile home.”

Meaning ACO was IN PP’s house, and (I’m assuming) would’ve noted if the place was broken into. So. The break in happened after the information was made public.