Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

[mvp]

[QUOTE=furlong47;5154248]
The address is available in the news articles as well as photos of the property. With that info anybody can find the Google Streetview pictures themselves within minutes. It isn’t like someone went over there and took photos to post here; and even if they had, it is perfectly legal to take photos from a public street or right of way and post or publish them.[/QUOTE]

Legal, feasible and whatnot. Would you like this to happen to you? That was my point, and it is entirely limited to something like “the golden rule.”

FWIW, I did my own half-a$$ed googling re: Holly aka Silver Image Farm. I now have a last name and a town and state. I’m quite sure someone who posted anonymously had no intention of anyone linking all that up. The point is that it’s really hard to maintain complete privacy on the internet. Most of us therefore try to live our internet lives in a very above-board way. I’m sure that’s true of all people on all sides of this case. But it’s tough to maintain complete privacy. We certainly “depend on the kindness of strangers” it seems.

[azeventer]

[QUOTE=LisaW-B;5154215]
SayItAintSo is Holly, aka Silver Image Farm.

I’m disgusted that this thread keeps coming back. The behavior shown by many of the posters is reprehensible. PP does not deserve to have every life decision she has ever made judged and ripped apart here on a freaking Internet bulletin board by people she has never even met. No one deserves that. No one. What has happened is a tragedy, whatever all of the facts may be. And we do not have all of the facts.

What if something unforeseen happened to you? Would you want it broadcast all over the Internet in exactly the same way we’ve been doing here? Would you like to be ripped to shreds and analyzed on COTH? Would you like to have your home address and Google Earth pictures of your house broadcast on COTH? Internet bullying has found another new low.[/QUOTE]

This. Amen Lisa W-B

[BLBGP]

[QUOTE=amastrike;5154263]
Quite a few people keep bringing up PP’s prior conviction and this ongoing case. Perhaps these people have never heard of cases of AC going after someone who keeps their horses outside or doesn’t blanket or lets their horses get dirty. Just because someone has a conviction doesn’t mean they actually did anything wrong. It just means they annoyed some neighbors and AC isn’t horsey enough to know what’s what.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sketcher;5154292]
Or have never heard of people who use people such as ACO’s, Board of Health, conservation commissions etc to harass neighbors.[/QUOTE]

Of course we have. But we’ve also heard of AC doing a wonderful job saving horses and likable people online who turn out in reality to be far from how they present themselves in the virtual world.

If you’re going to ask not to judge and ask for the facts first, then it goes both ways. Is it ok to bash AC and call the neighbors “idiots” and “db’s” just because they don’t post here?

And, not related to the quotes above, some people here are saying the horses don’t look dehydrated or unfed for two weeks. Those are very difficult to tell from a photograph.

[barnbum81]

So was Holly Vansant aka Silver Image Farm banned because of this or was that before all this went down

[fivehorses]

[QUOTE=CoolMeadows;5154276]
Incongruency detected.

Listen, it’s easy to get sidetracked but you have to consider this legal action taken against PP from strictly a legal standpoint. Which has nothing to do with moldy clothes. We have to wait and see if they can prove the horses were without food and water. Their own pictures show horses who don’t appear dehydrated or starved.[/QUOTE]

No the horses did not appear dehydrated or starved, BUT, as I have said before, the following facts presented to the ACO

1. she has a prior conviction and/or a pending charge.
2. neighbors reported owner not around
3. aco has a year long working with PP because of the borderline conditons and conviction.
4. aco investigates, leaves a note, no response, animals without water
5. ACO has a legal obligation to take into custody the animals, to leave them there after being informed and inspecting would make ACO liable.

Again, I don’t care about the neighbors and feeding the horses apples…seriously, who really puts weight into that?

I am focusing on what I saw in the pictures and what I know about animal humane laws and those people who seem to not get animal husbandry.

I am not buying into this poor PP and its not as it appears…for all I know those of you are making the most noise about that and saying woe be PP, are really saying woe be me.
I have lost faith in people who I share a love and passion for the same animal who thinks this is all just fine, and PP has some kind of vendetta against her.

In order for an ACO to convice, you gotta give them something to convict you on. Otherwise, you get to pass and go to the Bahamas or wherever you like from the proceeds of your lawsuit for false arrest.

Believe me, I live in a small new england town with old boys network, and if you think for one minute they like seeing a single woman owning the largest piece of property in town proper, you don’t know much about old boys. I have been attacked and reported, but you know what…nothing has ever been founded.
So, don’t give the old boys or neighbors anything to convict you on, and end of story. Give them something, and you go down.

PP left, and if she had a relationship or knew ACO was on her and I assume when aco is working with you, it is because you are not meeting or barely meeting the standard of care…so, smart thing, call them, tell them your plans, who is caring for the animals, etc, etc, give them your cell.

No, to me, all this is on PP. Not because I don’t like her, I did. I enjoyed her posts, but I don’t like animals to be kept in conditions that are not healthy. And that property, without a barn or good shelter is not a healthy place to bring a newborn into.
This it not really to me about PP, but an alleged neglect case in Maine, which also happens to be a poster here on coth. I don’t give exceptions to friends, acquaintences, family, etc, not when it comes to animal or child welfare. Why, because I share a community forum? Please…

[CoolMeadows]

@BLBGP;5154319

Of course we have. But we’ve also heard of AC doing a wonderful job saving horses and likable people online who turn out in reality to be far from how they present themselves in the virtual world.

If you’re going to ask not to judge and ask for the facts first, then it goes both ways. Is it ok to bash AC and call the neighbors “idiots” and “db’s” just because they don’t post here?

And, not related to the quotes above, some people here are saying the horses don’t look dehydrated or unfed for two weeks. Those are very difficult to tell from a photograph.

Bring the neighbor here and I’ll call her a giddy idiot. That’s how she presented herself for her 10 seconds of fame. Horses without water for two weeks would look dead. As far as I could tell in the videos, those weren’t dead horses. Nor were they tucked up. You can discern a tucked up a horse from a photo or video, can’t you? A horse with nothing to eat for 2 weeks would look emaciated. I’m sure you can also pick up on an emaciated animal from a picture, right?

[fivehorses]

arcadian, you can go back through this thread and find links to convictions, etc

As an aside, good luck with your leaky roof.

[furlong47]

@mvp;5154299

Legal, feasible and whatnot. Would you like this to happen to you? That was my point, and it is entirely limited to something like “the golden rule.”

FWIW, I did my own half-a$$ed googling re: Holly aka Silver Image Farm. I now have a last name and a town and state. I’m quite sure someone who posted anonymously had no intention of anyone linking all that up. The point is that it’s really hard to maintain complete privacy on the internet. Most of us therefore try to live our internet lives in a very above-board way. I’m sure that’s true of all people on all sides of this case. But it’s tough to maintain complete privacy. We certainly “depend on the kindness of strangers” it seems.

Deeds, tax data, parcel maps, and mortgage loans are public record. There’s no privacy to be expected when it comes to those things, yet for some reason many people seem to think they can have it. I don’t own property, but if I did I would have no issue with someone knowing my address, what I paid for my house, what my house looks like, etc. because it is public record and anyone can look it up.

Sure, it used to be that you had to go down to the courthouse or public records hall and look these things up. Now most of them are readily available online for free. I’m certainly not suggesting that anyone should use this information for nefarious purposes. But it is out there and available to all.

[Liberty]

[QUOTE=grayarabs;5154252]
…The newspaper/television crew gave all her private info and showed how her property looked that day. The google/map street view surely gives a different impression…[/QUOTE]

That’s because, as someone else mentioned, Google image maps are not real time and can be years old.

The Google map of my place shows an image at least 5 years old, even though the year superimposed in the lower right of the image is “2010”.

[fivehorses]

It can also be very likely that when ACO went onto the property, they found disturbing health conditions in the mobile home.
They are also required to follow up on that, and if the home is considered unhealthy and unfit to live in, they may condemn her mobile home.

this is the way things operate. No one I hope is on a vendetta, and if they are, then I will be the first to stand behind PP and support her to go get em.

But, from what I have read, what I saw, and what PP herself has described…things don’t seem to be up to health codes.

[BLBGP]

[QUOTE=CoolMeadows;5154331]
Bring the neighbor here and I’ll call her a giddy idiot. That’s how she presented herself for her 10 seconds of fame. Horses without water for two weeks would look dead. As far as I could tell in the videos, those weren’t dead horses. Nor were they tucked up. You can discern a tucked up a horse from a photo or video, can’t you? A horse with nothing to eat for 2 weeks would look emaciated. I’m sure you can also pick up on an emaciated animal from a picture, right?[/QUOTE]

I have been involved with too many horse rescues recently. It can take a long time for a horse’s condition to deteriorate without food. One recent conviction involved two horses and a pony. All without food for way longer than 2 weeks. One horse was a 1, the other was 1.5, the air fern pony was a 4. All had severe sand impaction from trying to eat something, anything. With water, people were mentioning lots of recent rain with mud and puddles which is far from ideal but could be enough water to survive, depending on the amount.

But I don’t know. I wasn’t there, I didn’t see the property with my own eyes, and I didn’t lay hands on the horses. From what I understand, no one here did.

I’m just trying to say - if people here are asked not to judge PP from the photos and the accusations, then we shouldn’t judge other people involved with the case until we get the facts.

[vineyridge]

Remember I cited the Murder Hollow seizure about excesses with Animal Services agencies back a few pages?

Here’s the outcome of that seizure:

From Baily’s:
http://www.bailyshuntingdirectory.com/story-341_Murder-Hollow-Bassets-Update --All-Charges-Withdrawn.php

Murder Hollow Bassets Update - All Charges Withdrawn

After more than 14 months, all 22 counts of animal cruelty charged against
Murder Hollow Bassets master Wendy Willard in August of 2009 by the
Pennsylvania Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (PSPCA) in
Philadelphia County were withdrawn on October 5, 2010 in Philadelphia
Municipal Court. Wendy was also found to be in complete compliance with
all applicable statutes.

You may recall that on July 27, 2009, the life of Wendy Willard, a retired
social studies teacher and nationally recognized Master of a pack of
hounds known as Murder Hollow Bassets, changed forever. That day, using a
warrant obtained following a trespass on her property, the PSPCA searched
Wendy’s barn, seized 11 of 23 hounds and pressured her to sign so-called
“surrender agreements” by threatening to take the other 12 dogs and
subjecting her to a heavy fine if she refused.

The search and seizure was performed under the guise of enforcing the
Philadelphia “limit law,” applicable only to residential dwelling units,
and not a barn inhabited by dogs. However, before Wendy was charged with
anything, and without notification to her, all of the hounds were spayed
and neutered after their seizure. Worse still one of the hounds was killed
as a result of a botched attempt at surgery during the mass spay/neuter
operations performed by the PSPCA. The 10 remaining live hounds became
infected with a lung virus in the PSPCA’s facility. The PSPCA then sent
those 10, with medications, to an unlicensed “rescue” operation that sold
them all for “adoption” before any hearing on the charges took place.

Wendy was charged in Philadelphia with 22 summary counts of animal cruelty
alleging unsanitary conditions and lack of veterinary care. These charges
were denied, aggressively defended and have now all been withdrawn.

Just so you’ll understand why I’m really skeptical about all this.

[CoolMeadows]

[quote=fivehorses;5154328]
I have been attacked and reported, but you know what…nothing has ever been founded. [quote]

If you’re in old boys club territory, I bet you’ll be reported again. Maybe next time you won’t be so lucky and they’ll succeed at nailing you for something. I’ve never been reported for anything, but I’ve talked to local AC about my concerns over certain farms and I’m aware of how unqualified these people are to make any decisions about horse care. They decided a farm with walking skeletons was ok and decided to go after someone with an elderly, terminally ill horse instead. The skeleton farm succeeded in killing off several of their horses, including a yearling who was found stuck in swampy mud. I have pretty much zero faith in what AC says and does at this point. Good luck to you during your next battle with them.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

[QUOTE=BLBGP;5154319]
some people here are saying the horses don’t look dehydrated or unfed for two weeks. Those are very difficult to tell from a photograph.[/QUOTE]

Actually not. I can easily tell a dead horse from photos - especially if they are on their feet. Maybe not so much if sleeping.

[QUOTE=fivehorses;5154328]
3. aco has a year long working with PP because of the borderline conditons and conviction.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I missed it, but where does anything say that? I saw the year ago thing/fine from the loose horse. Is that what is called working with her? Anyplace it says they were working with her? or just fined her because some got loose? I would think that more likely is about the lack of shelter?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=furlong47;5154337]
Deeds, tax data, parcel maps, and mortgage loans are public record. There’s no privacy to be expected when it comes to those things, yet for some reason many people seem to think they can have it. I don’t own property, but if I did I would have no issue with someone knowing my address, what I paid for my house, what my house looks like, etc. because it is public record and anyone can look it up.

Sure, it used to be that you had to go down to the courthouse or public records hall and look these things up. Now most of them are readily available online for free. I’m certainly not suggesting that anyone should use this information for nefarious purposes. But it is out there and available to all.[/QUOTE]

I’ll let it drop after this, but I think people are bellying right up to that line of “nefarious purposes” in this discussion. I don’t think the online photos were posted with that intention. But subsequent to that, people have taken to armchair quarterbacking the weeds vs. grass, fencing now vs. then and more.

I just think that there’s a huge and common-sense line between “the information can be gained” and “it ought to be included.”

[sketcher]

@fivehorses;5154328

I am not buying into this poor PP and its not as it appears…for all I know those of you are making the most noise about that and saying woe be PP, are really saying woe be me.
I have lost faith in people who I share a love and passion for the same animal who thinks this is all just fine, and PP has some kind of vendetta against her.

You are wrong. Mos people are not “buying” into “poor PP”. Most are saying that no one knows what the real situation as and there have certainly been many possible scenario’s presented. So, now this woman has been trashed all over he internet by a bunch of viscous gossips.

[vineyridge]

Gossips is too nice a word. Harridans might fit, but lynch mob would fit better.

[Eye_in_the_Sky]

Thank you for posting that, Viney.

Holly/SIF, did you bump your head when you woke up this morning??!! Seriously, what is wrong with you?!:mad:

[MistyBlue]

I thought there was a decent amount of what looks like grass on the left side of the driveway. Yes there is ragweed that needs an encounter with a bush hog, and once that’s done a second strand of tape, but it’s certainly not as bad as many of the animal keeping facilities around here - most are dry lots because the grass has been abused to the point of disappearing.

I have no issues if it’s all weeds and no grass. Open space to move around in is open space and not everyone has big grass pastures. I have no issues with dirt paddocks or stone dust ones either. A person can hay a horse not on grass. As long as they have enough room to not stand and eat off their own feces all day long. And then as long as the manure is cleaned out on a regular basis. Maybe that’s just a quirk of mine…but cleaning paddocks/pasture if they’re on the small side costs nothing and it’s better than deworming a horse and then tossing hay on it’s own shit. Makes no sense to me.
However it looks like decent moving around room.
But the weeds…we’re not talking an aesthetic issue here but there’s your “bingo!” main reason her fencing doesn’t work. Tiny short posts and one strand of tape is not adequate for any livestock, period. Not as perimeter fencing. Then leave the weeds alone so they get higher than the fence or even just touch the fence and you might as well put up a clothesline as fencing. It’s now useless.
I don’t think anyone can argue that the fencing isn’t adequate in any way, shape or form for keeping horses in or separated. There’s no way it can be hot. So I can see how the horses were loose often. I can also see how the intact males can easily roam to the mares. And PP did say her neighbors were sick of her horses being loose on the road and their yards and she didn’t blame them.
Cut the weeds, free…only costs time and some work. No, no fun and certainly not when you’re ouchy. But I have yet to meet a horse person who isn’t ouchy and plenty have major health issues too and can weed wack.
I’m not arguing or trying to start any fights, but I can see how her horses were loose and how her neighbors might not have had some misplaced vendetta. When I first moved here a few of my neighbors also thought t-posts and single tape was adequate fencing. And yes, it is really annoying and dangerous to drive around a corner and swerve to miss loose horses. Or care for your property and then have loose horses eating it, pooping all over it and tearing it up. Not to mention you can lose everything if the horse causes a car accident. Avoiding weed clean up just isn’t worth that.
Maybe if she gets that fencing done in a way where it will work, she’ll be a major step closer to having her horses returned. from the ME laws and previous issues I’d think a good direction to go would be to take all that stuff down, mow everything flat (at least this time of year it shouldn;t grow back much soon) and then replace with better posts and at least 2-3 strands. With an adequate charger. Then shelters. for this winter. And hopefully next spring or summer at least one larger run in with a swing gate for stalls and able to close up a bit in case those later breedings she tried this year worked. because if they did then next year she’ll have some pretty young stock being born right before really nasty weather. They’ll need more dry wind free area than temporary shelters that can have some bedding for ground insulation…babies lay down a lot and in winter risk hypothermia at young ages.
How many horses she keeps or produces is up to her and nobody else. I’m sure everyone has opinions on it, but as long as a person can keep them in good health with adequate facilities and fed with health care when needed then it’s up to that person how many they have. But the more she reproduces and takes in, the harder and more expensive it will be.
So those who do live nearby and are suppporting their friend (as friends should be supportive if possible) will need to get together and form a game plan of how things can work, what needs to be done and how to get it all done. And done right, not rigged for a short term solution. That way things don’t go to hell in a handbasket again and if things are done right and sturdy and lasting then the neighbors and SPCA have nothing to bother her about and she can live in peace.
Frankly I’m wondering where her friends were before this. Friends don’t let friends keep horses in that type of fencing and let yards get junk filled and without legal shelter in a state that requires it. I’m trying to figure out where she stored her hay without shelter. She needed help…where the heck were all these supportive friends for the last few years when things were so obviously going downhill? It’s been very obvious by her own posts on here for quite a long time now.
She either needed her friends to come help her get the work done that needed doing, or friends to help her raise funds to get it done, or friends to sit down and figure out how to convince her to stop getting and breeding more horses until she could provide what they needed legally.
She was let down well before any conspiracy started with neighbors and spca. Now I do agree that the neighbor interviewed was a little wonky IMO…no argument there…but it wasn;t up to them to help someone they never got to know. It would have been nice, but it was up to her friends and not strangers.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

Stop the PMs…I’m not Holly/SIF!