Sad situations that are going to be happening too much...

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

@vineyridge;5155165

Google is scary. Very, very scary. I didn’t realize they were funding street by street photography, now into rural areas. Why would they want to do that, except to have more personal information to sell advertisers?

Code enforcement in many municipalities has started using it to catch people building without permits and committing zoning violations. Scary, I agree. Because, contrary to popular belief, code enforcement can’t come on your property without a warrant. But anything in plain view, of course, is actionable. Anyway, with budget cuts and all, Google is an attractive option for code enforcement.

I am saddened to read this thread. I won’t comment on pintopiaffe’s situation because I know from my legal practice that one never knows until one hears both sides of a story.

But it’s made me think about some folks I know IRL who, while they are nice people who would never intentionally neglect or abuse their horses, do get in over their heads and keep their horses in a way that, well, raises concerns. I’m thinking of things like substandard fencing from which horses frequently escape, or on which horses sustain injury. Inadequate water or ill-maintained pasture.

What should people do who see situations like that in real life? I’ve found out the hard way that volunteering to help can wind up burning out the volunteer and perpetuating a bad situation. But certainly most of us, when the majority of the horses are in good flesh and feet are reasonably maintained, would hesitate to call AC.

[mbm]

i really do not understand this “if they keep horses different than me it must be bad” attitude.

there are plenty of boarding barns - fancy and not so fancy that dont clean poop up from pastures.

there are plenty of barns that dont have beautiful green pastures all summer.

there are plenty of places with strands of hot tape. heck i am a pony person and when i look at video/images of the ponies in europe they seem to be fine with just a strand of tape… mares and stallions.

while the venom appears to of gone elsewhere, we still have folks thinking that PP needs to “do something” whether it is get rid of horses, fix this or that etc.

this is also pre judging and guilty instead of innocent thinking.

we need to wait and see what the facts are…

not everyone that has horses is a trust fund baby. some of us make hard choices. so what?

i guess what i am trying to say is STOP JUDGING!!!

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=mbm;5155288]
i really do not understand this “if they keep horses different than me it must be bad” attitude.

there are plenty of boarding barns - fancy and not so fancy that dont clean poop up from pastures.

there are plenty of barns that dont have beautiful green pastures all summer.

there are plenty of places with strands of hot tape. heck i am a pony person and when i look at video/images of the ponies in europe they seem to be fine with just a strand of tape… mares and stallions.

. . .

i guess what i am trying to say is STOP JUDGING!!![/QUOTE]

I agree with what you’ve posted. My place isn’t fancy. I have electric rope fencing. But it’s taut and I keep it maintained. I also don’t mind a variety of plants growing in my pastures. I think it’s actually healthier for the horses. But I keep my pastures mowed.

If the pictures of the facility are accurate, the fencing just doesn’t look safe. For any horse. And especially not for breeding stallions. It’s sagging and tied to junk. The weeds are so grown up over it that it couldn’t help but be grounded out.

If I lived near a place that looked like that, I’d be very worried for my own stock.

[MistyBlue]

i really do not understand this “if they keep horses different than me it must be bad” attitude.

Emotional exaggerating for effect? I haven;t read that anywhere.
I am reading “if they keep horses in ways that are not compliant with that state’s minimum humane laws, that’s not good.”

there are plenty of places with strands of hot tape. heck i am a pony person and when i look at video/images of the ponies in europe they seem to be fine with just a strand of tape… mares and stallions.

Those places usually have hot tap that’s actually hot. As in connected to an electric supply and not grounded along every single inch by weeds. They also haven’t posted at least half a dozen times about their horses getting loose so often that they “wouldn’t blame the neighbors for shooting them” and also have accidental sibling breedings.

while the venom appears to of (sic)gone elsewhere, we still have folks thinking that PP needs to “do something” whether it is get rid of horses, fix this or that etc.

Yes, there are still people who seem to think that fixing her fencing that’s caused multiple escapes is a good idea and one worth mentioning. Not only for the safety of her horses…but also to keep the neighbors and SPCA off her back and to keep those driving in the area safe from a catastrophic accident. And no, that’s not exagerrating. An equine v car collision is catastrophic. For both humans and horses.

this is also pre judging and guilty instead of innocent thinking.

we need to wait and see what the facts are…

not everyone that has horses is a trust fund baby. some of us make hard choices. so what?

i guess what i am trying to say is STOP JUDGING!!!

Irony for $500 please Alex.
The first three lines all judging and then the coup de grace 4th line.
Color me confused.

i only “heard” about this becuase one of the original threads was posted in teh dressage forum where i live

Can we collect funds to help you with the move back?

[Lieslot]

I do think the whole situation is a shame for everybody involved including the horses and the neighbors. too. Yes, the neighbor on the video did seem a bit gleeful about the seizure. However that may be a byproduct of having her expensive landscaping and gardens destroyed one too many times by escaped horses. That has to wear thin after a bit.

I agree with that.
I don’t think it’s right either that the neighbor is being hammered here, coz what would you do if you continuously have horses loose on your property, pooping & trampling stuff?? Sit back, go on the internet and follow a crash course in horsecare so you know that horses don’t live of apples? And quickly go & buy hay for your neighbor’s horses for those days they are visiting your property? Or would you eventually look to the authorities when things aren’t getting better?

I guess I must be a very evil person too then when last weekend I called AC because we had a loose pittbull show up at a barbecue, he was bothering everyone for food, but none of use were knowledgeable enough to know how to catch a pittbull. Somebody did go and knock on the door a few houses further where we thought he might have escaped from, but no one was home. In the dog’s interest & for people’s safety, we called police & AC. The dog was NOT underfed, he looked to be in excellent health and no signs of abuse, were we therefore to continue to let him roam free?

Who will deny that PP’s fencing makes it relatively easy for horses to escape and get loose on the road? How long has this fencing been like that? Just recently or several years? Was there ever proper fencing installed? Or is the current state just as a result of recent financial hardship. Can we at least agree that horses loose on the road can “KILL A PERSON”, so what is the neighbor to do about that? Get a crashcourse on how to handle horses and return them to the questionably fenced paddock, sit back and wait for them to get out again?

This neighbor doesn’t strike me as particularly bad, just a neighbor that is not familiar with horsecare, sure, and from their perspective things appeared not right and unsafe, they hadn’t spotted the owner in a while, so they called in the authorities, that’s not being nasty in my mind.
The neighbor didn’t decide on taking the horses away, AC did.
The neighbor seemed to like animals in my observation, not necessarily out on a vendetta, but then again I’m no psycho-analyst.

And whether horses can or cannot live with or without shelter and will or will not maintain good bodyweight with or without. If it’s the law in ME, then no arguments necessary on that.

[omare]

My sense was that it was not so much a rallying around PP (who I am not familar with) but rather the real disconnect between the neighbor claiming the horses were starving and bony on the video while on the very same video you see horses in decent flesh being taken away–the picture of decent weight horses at least was not consistent with that particular allegation and frankly not what one expected to see.

I can remember a “horse riding facility” in the city of Philadelphia----same type of issue-where the horses were being confiscated–photos showed they were standing in muck eating hay–(after lots of rain) but they were all in very good healthy weight - they did not look like starved horses–so COTH people similarly questioned what that was about. (I am not sure how that turned out and whether neglect was actually proven there. )

[FlashGordon]

[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;5155270]

But it’s made me think about some folks I know IRL who, while they are nice people who would never intentionally neglect or abuse their horses, do get in over their heads and keep their horses in a way that, well, raises concerns. I’m thinking of things like substandard fencing from which horses frequently escape, or on which horses sustain injury. Inadequate water or ill-maintained pasture.

What should people do who see situations like that in real life? I’ve found out the hard way that volunteering to help can wind up burning out the volunteer and perpetuating a bad situation. But certainly most of us, when the majority of the horses are in good flesh and feet are reasonably maintained, would hesitate to call AC.[/QUOTE]

That’s the thing, where is the line. It is hard to tell sometimes in real life, which is why I don’t think it is fair to judge here online when none of us have any real hard facts as of yet.

I do think this whole mess has blown up because PP was/is a prominent poster, people clearly had strong feelings about her either way, and so there is definitely an emotional component.

Frankly what disturbed me was not the actual story or the fact that it was PP necessarily, but that fuel was being added to the fire by posters who were corresponding with the media and/or posting on the media’s website directing people here, stuff like that. The whole thing was getting really creepy…

There have been a lot of stories in the media lately about how people have ended up dead/harmed/etc. because of information that has been put out there by 3rd parties. Whether it was meant to be a joke, or just some mean fun, or whether there really were ill intentions. Regardless, things can get ugly.

Anyway, why am I still posting on this thread…

The internet is a strange place sometimes. I’m nearing the point where I’m ready to take a vacation from it.

[daisyduke]

It’s definitely challenging to live in the country these days.

In the last twenty years, I have witnessed such a transformation in the type of people living in the country. City slickers want the “acreage life” but have no concept what it requires to maintain property. Subdivisions are popping up on agriculture land. People build mansions next to farms and then complain about livestock, manure and farm smell. We actually received complaints because our combines made too much dust. Can you imagine? I actually get a sense of euphoria when we move our equipment into a field adjacent to a subdivision. I can just imagine when they get home from their 9 to 5 job to find their windows were open and now there is 3 inches of dust and straw on their furniture. (Sorry, I just can’t resist).

Anyways, my point is, it is irrelevant that her place might be considered an eyesore to neighbors. It is a huge undertaking to care for yard, livestock, fencing, etc. It isn’t a 9 to 5 job it is a 24hr job. However, her livestock should be contained. Livestock on occasion can escape but if the fencing is not near adequate, that needs to be addressed or the animals should be confiscated.

I think it is frustrating for both parties. The neighbor despises the eyesore and wandering horses and I’m sure PP has problems with her neighbors.

If the neighbor has stooped to a level of sabotage, that is despicable. I hope that PP has the opportunity and means to provide a safe environment for her pets and livestock.

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=SonnysMom;5155226]
As far as the manure in the round pen at this point we don’t know whether the farm sitter was supposed to be cleaning out the manure and wasn’t. [/QUOTE]

I’ve specifically made the choice, after some trial and error, to not have the farmsitter try to do any cleaning. I figure it is less risky for everyone if they don’t open any gates and don’t handle any horses and don’t go in the corrals.

The instructions are to put the hay through the fences, to water from outside, to make sure everyone’s limbs are still attached, and to do nothing else.

Of course, my place is set up so that there’s enough airflow and enough space that they don’t get mucky or nasty, and their feet are still healthy, even if it’s not the pony club way. None of the horses are in closed in stalls, which of course would require cleaning.

Yes, it means I come home to some mucking, but that seems to work out better.

[jeano]

In real life I knew a woman a few miles from me who had a stallion and several mares and who was breeding a popular color breed. She seemed very knowledgeable about her horses, concerned for their welfare, had a working relationship with a vet, made sure they had pasture or hay or both, kept them watered etc etc. She was friendly and let me ride one of her mares.

But she never fixed up her nasty junky shelters or rusting, saggy, hot wire/barbed/wire/field fence fencing. She used bedsprings and similar junk for gates and corners. She called me in a big fat panic one cold winter morning to help her with a newborn foal who’d ripped its third eyelid OUT on a nasty, rusty nail. No foaling stall, no hell no.

She kept acquiring more stock, eventually breeding anything as long as it had color. Didnt matter if it was registered anything, appys, duns, paints, you name it. Just puttin color babies on the ground. Except when the mares aborted, or died foaling. Still, a lot of the foals that did hit the ground had spots, blankets, or stripes (some had all three) and that evidently was what she wanted. The survivors are unthrifty animals that dont (on the few occasions when I can make myself ride by the place) look wormed or to be getting any foot care. God only knows what their vaccination status is or if any of the herd has had a Coggins pulled ever.

She didnt sell many. Eventually she had maybe 30 horses on her place. Pasture went to hell. She finally left the area, leaving most of her horses fending for themselves, but apparently comes back once in a while to sell off a few. A lot went to a sale where my riding buddy overheard this woman brag about the alleged bloodlines and how often these stunted little weanlings had been handled and so on.

She used to dress up real nice and show, too. I’m pretty sure people at the shows, no more than people at the sales, knew squat about what conditions were like at her place.

And no, never never did I have grounds to call AC, because there was hay or grass, and there was a pond or other access to water.

She KNEW better, I swear she did. She was rational in all respects except for collecting more color.

She had I’m sure different issues from whatever is going on with PP but folks, it is just not pretty when some folks start breeding horses and keep at it despite poor finances, infrastructure, and life circumstances that mean the fence never gets fixed, the horses never get wormed, the pens never get mucked out…

My own horsekeeping standards are pretty minimal, God knows. I am blessed with enough land that I dont have to pick apples and a mild climate so I can provide minimal shelter. But when I lived on a tiny place on a busy road I worked my butt off to keep the horses in and the flies down and the non horsey neighbors on three sides just as happy as I could.

[Calico]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;5155165]
Google is scary. Very, very scary. I didn’t realize they were funding street by street photography, now into rural areas. Why would they want to do that, except to have more personal information to sell advertisers?

It makes me wonder about the Russian immigrant founders. But then I am one who tends to wonder just what motivates people to do what they do. :)[/QUOTE]

What? What in the ever lovin’ hell makes you wonder about Russian immigrants - selling info. to advertisers? No one of any other nationality does that, no sirree. As a Russian immigrant, Go To Hell, pronto. Xenophobia motivates me, if you even care what motivates to “do what they do” since I am one of “them.”

And if you can’t see the differences between the Murder Hollow case and this one, then you are truly hopeless, irrelevant, and ignorant.

[Eye_in_the_Sky]

[QUOTE=Iron Horse Farm;5155009]
Spitting coffee on my keyboard!

My son’s teacher also sent a note home addressed to David and MOLLY :lol::lol::lol::o[/QUOTE]

Alright, you need a name tag!:lol:

And that teacher should get no Christmas gift this year - or if she gets one, put someone else’s name on it.

[Eye_in_the_Sky]

NJR was right!!

[Gnalli]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;5154963]
Does anyone know what the coth record thread length is? Surely this is approaching the record, no?[/QUOTE]

This one is not even close. You have to go back to at least 2006 probably.

PP-I don’t care what is said about you. There are always 3 sides to every story and the way things look are not always what they seem. Good luck to you. You still have a friend in me. The rest of you that are quick to be hateful-just remember that but for the grace of God, it could be you. Be nicer than you have to be because someone’s day could have been suckier than yours.

[Gnalli]

[QUOTE=Arcadien;5155098]
Well, in the case you describe, probably police would have to be on the scene anyway. And if they wouldn’t agree to cover my medical costs & fix my vehicle (I would think their homeowners would if it were their horse getting loose, at least in this state) then yes, regrettfully I be forced to sue to at least get put back on my feet.

But that is a big deal event. Whereas filling a water tank, before calling AC, would have just been a kindness. It seems to me no one had any intention of being kind, in this situation. Moreso they couldn’t seem to wait to say “Aha!!! Gotcha!!!” and make the situation look as bad as possible.

I guess that’s the part that bothers me most. Maybe because I have a neighbor that has shown every sign of wishing they could do that to me. I was here 7 years before they built a McMansion next door, but now they clearly do not wish to live next to a horse farm, and would do everything they could to shut me down (sigh).

Anyway, thanks for those that are with me striving to slow down the lawsuit mania! I must not be the only one who believes it doesn’t always have to be someone’s fault, or that someone has to pay me for every accident I might incur. Sometimes we can just work together to make things better again.[/QUOTE]

+1million

[macmtn]

[quote=fivehorses
MacMtn, you live up in lobsta country and seem to have a high disregard for the neighbor…any chance you could give appjumper a pm and offer a hand in helping?
[/quote]

I have a very high disregard for a snooty self important smirking young neighbor who APPEARS ON CAMERA to be taking great delight in HER neighbor’s sad and sinking circumstances. I do not for ONE MINUTE believe the neighbors didn’t know where she was and how long she would be gone…and took the opportunity to rid them selves of an eyesore they didn’t want in their sad little corner of the world. The timing is just too convenient. I sympathize with pp’s situation (I have been out of a day job for almost 3 years now-no health insurance & I have a life threatening medical condition) I am many miles and hours from PP (Maine IS that big–mostly empty, and in many areas very poor). I am waiting to see what the ACO will do about the whole situation-but having watched Maine ACO do-or not do-their jobs in the past years I hold out little hope she will ever see her critters again. She is not Jason Meduna-or Fair Play Farm…just someone who’s life has taken a very hard down turn. We all cope with adversity as our nature is able…good-bad or give up and die. Whatever happens…NO ONE deserves the vitreole that has surfaced in many bb’s re her circumstances. People are calling for a virtual lynching-whatever happened to innocent until convicted?
And FYI I spent 5 years as a ACO officer in New Orleans…so have seen that life from the other side.
I offer hugs to PP-and prayers her life takes a better turn. And to those who vilify her-shame on you:mad:. Karma IS a bitch…

[SuperSTB]

[QUOTE=cholmberg;5154839]

Why are some so willing to string up A/C for taking horses [/QUOTE]

Because there are many people on this board who are familiar with ACO’s in the Northeast myself included. In my opinion it’s a rare gem to find an ACO who is horse knowledgable and straightforth. Seriously. Most ACO positions aren’t filled by animal experts but rather who’s related to who’s been elected.

But I’m jaded with ACO’s anyway. I’ve know several that I wouldn’t leave a stuffed animal in their care.

Out here it seems slightly better. I had a former ACO leasing a horse from me… nice lady but the stories she told still made me think- WTF?

[cholmberg]

@Arcadien;5155098

But that is a big deal event. Whereas filling a water tank, before calling AC, would have just been a kindness. It seems to me no one had any intention of being kind, in this situation. Moreso they couldn’t seem to wait to say “Aha!!! Gotcha!!!” and make the situation look as bad as possible.

Hmmm. so she’s done nothing to fix her fence for a very long time according to people who have actually been to her place, her horses get loose all the time and go harass her neighbors, and in general present a danger and nuisance to the neighborhood. . .and yet when she seems to have vanished off the face of the earth with her stallion and dog, they are supposed to go on over to her place and fill up the water trough for her? I do NOT think these people were being vindictive. They were very rightfully worried about the horses and their own (and driver) safety. Why should they trespass onto her property and do favors for someone with absolutely no regard for their property rights?

I guess that’s the part that bothers me most. Maybe because I have a neighbor that has shown every sign of wishing they could do that to me. I was here 7 years before they built a McMansion next door, but now they clearly do not wish to live next to a horse farm, and would do everything they could to shut me down (sigh).

her neighbors have just cause to want the horses gone. Do yours? PP’s own posts admit she didn’t blame her neighbors one bit for being fed up with her loose horses.

Anyway, thanks for those that are with me striving to slow down the lawsuit mania! I must not be the only one who believes it doesn’t always have to be someone’s fault, or that someone has to pay me for every accident I might incur. Sometimes we can just work together to make things better again.

When your horses are loose as often as hers have been and she’s been cited for it, then yeah. . .it certainly IS someone’s fault. . .and she would certainly be liable and to blame if someone was hurt or killed as a result of them being loose. One time is totally forgivable and understandable, even once a year or every so often. . … but this is seemingly from all facts presented even by PP herself. . .chronic. ‘Making things better’ in this instance is to get decent fencing that will hold her horses. . .

[cholmberg]

[QUOTE=SuperSTB;5155461]
Because there are many people on this board who are familiar with ACO’s in the Northeast myself included. In my opinion it’s a rare gem to find an ACO who is horse knowledgable and straightforth. Seriously. Most ACO positions aren’t filled by animal experts but rather who’s related to who’s been elected.

But I’m jaded with ACO’s anyway. I’ve know several that I wouldn’t leave a stuffed animal in their care.

Out here it seems slightly better. I had a former ACO leasing a horse from me… nice lady but the stories she told still made me think- WTF?[/QUOTE]

I’m still waiting for those who think she’s been ‘hard done by’ to say what they think A/C should have done and what their options were once the notice went unanswered. . … and no just watering and feeding the horses isn’t an option, they aren’t allowed.

[princessfluffybritch]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;5154408]
True story.

I have an outbuilding that I use for storage. It’s pretty junky, and I don’t go in there very often. One year, I decided to clean it out. There were shutters covering the windows, and when I moved shutters I found a completely desicccated possum. God knows how long it had been in there without food and water before it died. Or how it got in and couldn’t get back out. I do occasionally open the door and leave it open all night. But there the poor, dried out corpse lay trapped on the window sill.

So I can certainly see how a closet that is never opened could spring a leak and not be noticed.[/QUOTE]

I feel bad for the possum, but it may have carried EPM, so don’t feel too guilty